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Yesterday β€” 22 December 2024Main stream

The hardest part of group chats: figuring out how to leave them

22 December 2024 at 02:32
Person using their phone as door
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Alberto Miranda for Business Insider

I can tell Jess is trying to be nice about the people in her group chat, to varying degrees of success. It's not that the members are bad people. They met a year ago at a vocal workshop for aspiring musicians and artists and decided to keep in touch after it ended. The chat has become a mix of a confessional and a lovefest β€” people will leave long audio messages rambling about their days and texts about how much support they get from everyone. It's this "quintessential overcomplimentary, masturbatory, 'everybody loves each other so much'" space, Jess says. Plus, they're not good musicians, which is the opposite of the chat's point. She's attended various performances of other group members, and "all of them are bad, across the board," she says. But again, she's really trying to be nice. "In this group, they have so clearly found their people," she says. "I don't hate these people. I just hate being in their stupid group."

And yet she can't just quit. For each member's birthday, the group goes in on a gift together. Her birthday was first, so she felt like she had to stick around for everyone else's. She finally got through the first round of birthdays, opening the door for an exit β€” but it can't be an Irish exit. "I feel like I have to make a goodbye," she says. "I can't ghost. I can't ghost. It would be against the whole thing of the group." She spoke on the condition of withholding her last name for this story, for obvious reasons.

Jess isn't alone: Many people report feeling overwhelmed by group chats, saying it's difficult to keep up with messages and even comparing it to a part-time job. Many people, like Jess, also have at least one group chat they really hate. It's not just a nuisance but a place that makes their blood boil. It's like scrolling through posts from the most obnoxious people on Twitter, but you actually know them in real life. As much as you may loathe the chat, it's tough to quit β€” group chats may be contained in the cold, distant trappings of technology, but the contents are often warm and real.

Jess tells me our conversation has reinvigorated her commitment to leave her despised chat ahead of the new year. She's just got to think up her goodbye message first.


The group chat is a complicated invention of our modern technological existence. It can be a useful tool: a place to coordinate Fourth of July plans with extended family or stay up to speed with neighbors on the landlord's latest shenanigans. It can be a fun place: a spot for sending memes and gossip and life updates. The group chat is also often a safer space for spicy takes than social media β€” it's less likely to get you fired, or indicted, or canceled (though that's not impossible). Group chats can also be wildly irritating. You look away for a few hours and suddenly you've got 63 unread messages about stuff you really do not care about. And sure, you can mute it, but it's still there, haunting you.

I don't hate these people. I just hate being in their stupid group.

Jeremy Birnholtz, a communication professor at Northwestern University who focuses on human-computer interaction, told me there are two features that make group chats unique (and daunting). "One is that texting is happening all the time, so you can't choose to be out of the room and not be with everybody," he said. "Two is that you're either in it or you're out of it. There's not a graceful way to ease yourself out of it as there are with social relationships."

Ignoring the group chat is less obvious than, for example, spending Thanksgiving watching TV in the living room instead of talking to everyone around the table. But eventually everyone will notice and think you're kind of a jerk for it. And if you do engage, it can be tricky to ensure you get your point across. Group texts, like all written communication, lack many of the cues of in-person communication. There's no body language, no vocal inflections or facial expressions. It's easy to misread intentions and meaning, good or bad.

"People fill in the blanks the way that they want to," Birnholtz said. If you think someone is attractive or a close friend, you fill them in in positive ways. If you think someone doesn't like you, you do the opposite.

Sharon does not have a particularly good relationship with her in-laws, a reality that has infected their group chat. She's noticed her messages in a group she's in with her mother-in-law and two sisters-in-law don't get as much attention as she thinks they should. Her mother-in-law doesn't interact with photos of Sharon's kids as much as she does with pictures of Sharon's sister-in-law's kids. In April, Sharon (which isn't her real name) made eclipse-themed pancakes β€” she put a dark one over a light one and then put eyes on a Mrs. Butterworth's syrup bottle to make it look as if it was watching the eclipse β€” and posted photos of them in the group. Her mother-in-law didn't respond, but she did pop back in when Sharon's sister-in-law posted a photo of her cat. The chilly reception led Sharon to scale back her participation, and she finally muted the chat in the fall. "I feel so much better," she says. Still, Sharon won't quit. "I wouldn't have a place if I ever wanted to communicate a message with them where I could get them all at once," she says. "So I just leave it there."

From the outside, it's hard not to wonder whether Sharon is perceiving slights where none are meant β€” her kids are her mother-in-law's grandchildren, after all. At the same time, Sharon is filling in the blanks this way for a reason.

"If you don't get along with somebody in person, if they're passive-aggressive or where they do weird things in person, then it's not going to work on a group chat either," Sharon says. She emphasizes that in group chats she's careful to make sure everyone gets attention for what they post and is celebrated for their achievements. She's just heart reacting away.


Group chats have gone the way of a lot of communication innovations, such as email or AOL instant messaging or, for a more modern example, Slack. It proves itself useful, and then it becomes so useful that everyone's using it all the time, and then it gets overwhelming.

"The other thing is that technologies are not designed for graceful exits for the most part," Birnholtz said. In a WhatsApp group, there's no easy way to do the Midwestern "I suppose I'll let you go" thing that subtly lets the other person know you are very much done with the conversation. You can't really slow-fade a fraternity chat the way you might your fraternity friends in real life.

Technologies are not designed for graceful exits for the most part.

I reached out to a couple of professional etiquette experts and advice givers to ask if they had thoughts about how to quit a group chat you hate without damaging relationships. Carolyn Hax, an advice columnist at The Washington Post, told me that "good protocol is always that you're in control of your own life and time," and you don't need permission for that. "Anytime you're feeling handcuffed by a group, then it's time to take a deep breath and think about that a little," she said. Group chats are about feeling connected and supported and entertained, and if you're not getting that, it's OK to "dip out," she said. Someone just quit one of Hax's group chats with college friends, explaining that she had a lot going on in her life, and no one batted an eye. "It's like, 'Hey, are you all right?' That's about it," she said. "And if people can't handle that, then that's on them."

If it's a group with essential information β€” updates from other parents at school, or family members β€” the mute button is your friend. "You let it accumulate, and then you just check in: Did I miss something important?" Hax said. "Disengage as your health demands, but keep the thread."

Hax didn't say this, but I will: It's probably fine to lie and say you're too busy to keep up with the chat and leave. It's really nobody's business to dig into what you're too busy with. Maybe it's a medical issue, or maybe you just want to peacefully scroll through Instagram reels uninterrupted by a bunch of pings.

Lisa Mirza Grotts, an etiquette consultant, said that while it's important to leave politely, in casual groups it's fine to do a "quiet" exit. "You simply leave without an announcement," she said. She also said there's no one right way to communicate in a group chat; what reads to one person as efficient might read to another as rude. "I just think you have to be mindful that it's not the perfect way to communicate," she said.

It's probably fine to lie and say you're too busy to keep up with the chat and leave.

Not everyone has qualms about quitting their group chats, like Joe Cardillo, who has cleaned house lately. They've worked in venture-backed startups for about a decade and have several group chats with former colleagues and professional contacts. In one such chat, messages started to come through on what Cardillo called some pretty "inflammatory" topics. In particular, someone said that Elon Musk and Donald Trump would be "amazing" for tech, which started an argument with hundreds of messages. Cardillo spoke up, saying they didn't want to be in an "unstructured space" where people didn't show basic respect and take accountability. Ultimately they left.

"I just consider it healthy to think about what a good conversation feels like. And if this isn't it, then you're like, I'm out," Cardillo said.


Group-chat dynamics are, in a word, messy β€” and in many messy situations, walking away is easier said than done. One friend confessed that they'd been in a weeklyish-brunch chat for two years without any intention of ever attending said brunch. Everybody seems nice, but it just isn't their jam, and they're scared to quit. Another admitted that they kind of hated their friend-group chat, and they were pretty sure everyone else had a chat without them, but they had no idea how to broach the subject. One person told me about a friend who had abruptly left a chat after someone else in the group posted an old picture of her in which she was quite drunk. The person surmised that the friend's husband saw the photo and "went nuts."

Sometimes you just have to set a boundary, and that boundary can be deciding to not sit in a room with 12 people chattering away all day without any ability to shut them off. You can say you have to go for a reason, or you can just walk away. Who knows if they'll even miss you? Years ago, everyone quit a group chat I was in except for me and one other person. My friend renamed it "WE'RE THE BEST," and we've been talking in it, by ourselves, since. It's fun, and we're still friends with the other people.

As for Jess, she insists she's open to being friends with the people in her mediocre-musician chat on an individual, less intense level, but I have my doubts. The last time they were all interested in going to the same show, she bought a ticket β€” but for a different night.

"They're wonderful people," she says. "They're just not my people."


Emily Stewart is a senior correspondent at Business Insider, writing about business and the economy.

Read the original article on Business Insider

Before yesterdayMain stream

4 mistakes you should never make when hosting for the holidays, according to etiquette experts

21 December 2024 at 04:14
A woman lighting candles on a table decorated for Christas.
There are a few mistakes that should be avoided when hosting for the holidays.

DragonImages/Getty Images

  • Business Insider asked etiquette experts about the mistakes to avoid when hosting for the holidays.
  • It's important to make sure everyone feels welcomed β€” even unexpected guests.
  • Hosts should also ensure there is enough seating for everyone at the party.

Although hosting friends and family for the holidays can be fun, there's no denying that doing so also comes with its fair share of stress. Without proper planning, things can even get chaotic.

To avoid making etiquette mistakes in the process, Business Insider asked two experts to share the top mistakes they see people make when hosting. Here's what they said.

Don't chastise guests for bringing an unexpected plus-one

Diane Gottsman, a national etiquette expert and the owner of the Protocol School of Texas, told BI that hosts should never reprimand a guest for bringing an unexpected plus-one.

If this happens, she said to address the issue later β€” not in front of others.

"You don't want to reprimand the guest or the guest's guest in front of anyone. Later on, you can say, 'Sally, I wasn't expecting a plus one because it kind of put me in an awkward position with other people.' But you can say that privately at another time, not that night," Gottsman said.

Make sure there is enough seating for all guests

A dining table set with Christmas decorations in front of a tree and wreath.
Use your head count to ensure everyone has a place to sit.

Rawpixel.com/Shutterstock

When it comes to seating, it's important to double check your head count and ensure everyone has a place to sit. Gottsman said this should also be done for more casual events like cocktail or dinner parties.

"You want to have enough seating for people," Gottsman said.

Avoid creating a chaotic environment

Etiquette and hosting expert Carla Shellis said another common mistake hosts make is not considering how they want their event or home to feel.

By yelling and scrambling to get things done at the last second, the host can unintentionally leave the space feeling more chaotic than welcoming.

Gottsman shared similar thoughts, telling BI, "When the doorbell rings with your first guest, you should not still be in your hair rollers, or lighting candles, or racing around talking about how busy you are."

To combat a chaotic situation, Shellis likes to play music, light candles, and clean the space before her guests arrive. She also gives herself plenty of time to get everything done so she doesn't have to rush.

Be cautious when serving alcohol

A group of people toasting cheers with Champagne flutes.
Alcohol can sometimes do more harm than good at a party.

wilpunt/Getty Images

Shellis told BI that serving too much alcohol is an easy way to create unnecessary issues at a party. That's why it's important to ensure everyone is enjoying themselves in moderation.

For instance, Shellis said when people ask her if she has any more wine, she'll say no and redirect them by offering other beverages like iced tea or soda.

"For 30 years, I've been hosting parties, and I'm going to tell you there's nothing that will kill a beautiful environment quicker than somebody that's hammered and acting foolish," Shellis told BI.

Read the original article on Business Insider

6 mistakes to avoid making at the company holiday party, according to an etiquette expert

2 December 2024 at 05:57
People in collared shirts and blazers clinking glasses of wine together.
There are a few things you should be mindful of when attending your company's holiday party.

ShineTerra/Shutterstock

  • Business Insider asked an etiquette expert for advice on attending a company holiday party.
  • She said employees shouldn't drink too much or feel pressured to consume alcohol because others are.
  • She recommends using this time to meet new people and form deeper connections with colleagues.

Many companies have started requiring workers to return to the office β€” which also means having to attend corporate events again. However, striking a balance between having fun and remaining professional can be difficult.

As a result, etiquette mistakes are common at company holiday parties. To cover the biggest dos and don'ts, Business Insider asked Diane Gottsman, a professional etiquette expert, to share the key mistakes to watch out for when attending these gatherings.

Here's what she said.

Even if you'd rather be somewhere else, you shouldn't skip out on the holiday party

Although you might prefer to spend your time elsewhere, Gottsman explained that attending these events is an extension of your professional brand.

"I call it mandatory festivities or mandatory fun because it shows that you are engaged with your company. It's telling your boss that you care about your position in the firm β€” you're a team player," she said.

Be mindful of how much you're drinking

Women in business-casual clothing holding glasses of wine.
Drinking excessively may impact your professional reputation.

dissx/Shutterstock

Gottsman said another thing to watch out for is how much you drink, even if everyone else β€” including your boss β€” is indulging.

"This isn't the time to get drunk and lose your credibility, because you still have to go to work on Monday," she told BI.

Holiday parties are still considered company time, so you should always remain aware of your professional reputation.

Don't feel pressured to drink

On the other hand, don't feel compelled to drink if you don't want to.

"If you don't drink for whatever reason, you don't have to give an excuse or a reason," Gottsman explained.

If you're more comfortable sticking with a seltzer or soda, you should do that.

Remember to send in your RSVP on time

People standing near a white countertop with empty glasses on it.
RSVPs allow the host to get a head count.

Taiyou Nomachi/Getty Images

If there's an RSVP on the invitation, it means the host is counting heads to ensure there's enough food, drinks, and place settings for each guest, Gottsman told BI. That's why it's important to respond in a timely manner.

She also said that once you RSVP, you've made a commitment that you shouldn't back out on.

Don't be the first to leave β€” or overstay your welcome

It's best not to rush out the door at a corporate holiday party.

Gottsman told BI that leaving too early can make it look like you're eager to get out, which doesn't leave a great impression.

"If you get there and you leave 20 minutes later, people are going to notice," she said.

However, Gottsman also said you shouldn't overstay your welcome. For instance, she told BI that if the event ends at 9 o'clock, you've stayed too long if you're still there at 9:30 or 9:45.

If you'd like to continue interacting with your coworkers, she recommends leaving at the appropriate time and taking the party somewhere else.

Be sure to mix and mingle

Two people in suits shaking hands.
Holiday parties are a good time to make connections and build on existing relationships.

Klaus Vedfelt/Getty Images

When attending a holiday party, use the opportunity to build on existing relationships and meet new people, such as clients, vendors, or others in the company you don't know well.

"You shouldn't be sitting," Gottsman told BI. "You should be mixing and mingling unless you're eating. But if you are seated and someone walks up to you, you always want to stand for an introduction."

Additionally, if the event has name tags, make sure to grab one.

"Name tags are memory tools. They go on the right side of your shoulder to follow the line of sight of a handshake," Gottsman added.

Read the original article on Business Insider

A woman's quirky out-of-office emails have ignited a debate about how much personality to bring to work

27 November 2024 at 01:40
A woman checks her phone while out of office
A woman's out-of-office saga has caught the attention of the TikTok.

mihailomilovanovic/Getty Images

  • A woman's creative out-of-office emails sparked debate on professionalism and workplace norms.
  • Experts say OOO emails should reflect a company's culture.
  • Legal and social issues can arise if OOOs don't align with employer expectations.

The backlash to a woman's creative out-of-office emails has caught the attention of TikTok and ignited a debate over how much personality to bring to work.

Thara Moise, better known as Chef Moise, is a TikTok creator and private chef who also works a regular 9-5 as a catering and sales manager.

In a recent TikTok, which amassed more than a million views, she said she had received the "same talking to" from her boss at her day job multiple times due to her "super cute" out-of-office emails.

The emails would include stories she'd made up, historical facts, or wellness tips.

"Tell me why I had another conversation with this man today about how unprofessional that is," Moise said, adding that she felt like her personality was being "smothered by corporate America."

"Am I wrong?" she asked.

Being creative can work

Some saw her creative automated emails as unprofessional, while others thought it was a sign that her workplace was stifling and restrictive.

"Imagine you sent an urgent email to someone and their automated response was a story instead of letting you know who to contact while they're out," read one comment, which received 21,000 likes.

Workplace analysts are also divided on the issue, saying it may all depend on the specifics of your office and the people in it.

Carla Bevins, an associate teaching professor of business management communication at Carnegie Mellon University's Tepper School of Business in Pittsburgh, told Business Insider that OOO emails are an extension of workplace communication.

"While injecting personality can make them memorable, it's important to balance creativity with professionalism," she said.

However, Rich Mehta, the founder of the digital marketing agency Rigorous Digital, said that adding some personality into an OOO email could be beneficial in the right workplace setting.

"From the sendee's perspective, getting an OOO isn't usually a nice experience," he said. "Surprising someone with what can otherwise be a bit of a rubbish experience introduces dissonance, which usually means you'll be remembered."

Issues can arise

In more traditional workplaces, legal issues might arise.

Jo Mackie, a partner and employment law specialist at the law firm Burlingtons, told BI that inappropriate, offensive, or rude messages should never be tolerated, "but that begs the question of who decides what is and is not appropriate."

Raising the conversation three times shows that Moise should take notice, Mackie added, as failing to "follow a wilful management instruction" in employment law can potentially lead to disciplinary action, she said.

"If this continues, there is also scope for an employer to claim there has been a breakdown in trust and confidence between the employer and employee," she said. "And that is grounds for a breach of contract claim and may lead to dismissal."

Reading the room

Joelle Moray, a psychotherapist, workplace dynamics consultant, and the author of "What Are We Doing?! Radical Self-Care for the Hustle Culture," said that Moise's story is an example of the need to "get it right" rather than "being right."

Moray advises that individuals start by reading the room and deciding whether their workplace is more conservative or relaxed.

Then, they should take some time to consider who will read the email and why they want to add a casual tone or anecdote.

"Are you adding a wellness tip because you're the wellness committee chairperson?" she said. "Are you adding a historical factoid because you think they would be interested, or are you adding this so that you appear interesting?"

Moise told BI that she had found the response to her video funny for the most part, though some had veered into bullying or calling for her to be fired, which was "unnecessary," she said.

"Most people expressing negative thoughts are projecting their insecurities about being different or odd," she said. "I am incredibly accomplished on my own and have always navigated the workforce with ease."

Moise's workplace did not respond to a request for comment.

Read the original article on Business Insider

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