• Narcissists struggle to have positive feelings about someone whom they're mad at.
• For many people, the best thing to do is to cut a narcissist out of their life.
• If this isn't possible there are some tactics you can use to stop the argument from escalating.

Arguing with a narcissist can lead to hurt feelings or worse. 

Narcissists tend to be incapable of "object constancy," which means they struggle with having positive and negative feelings at the same time. Once they are fired up for a fight, they can only comprehend their feelings of resentment and anger. 

As a result, even the smalles argument can escalate quickly and fiercely. An issue you thought was unimportant or even irrelevant may blow up into a relationship-ending showdown. 

Narcissists can be very delicate, depending on what sub-type they are. They are often deeply insecure underneath their bravado, so they easily mistake other people's comments and actions for "attacks on themselves," Alena Scigliano, a psychotherapist and author of "Swimming with Sharks: Surviving Narcissist-Infested Waters," told Business Insider in 2023. 

Here's what you can expect from an argument with a narcissist and what you can do to keep things from spiraling out of control, according to experts.

Learn to look for the signs of an argument.

Scigliano said when you're familiar with the narcissist in your life, you'll learn their patterns. But some common signs a narcissist is gearing up for an argument include "physical agitation, facial expressions becoming sinister, darkened eyes, and a change in their posture to become more imposing or intimidating. Their voice may also suddenly get deeper or sterner, she said.

"Whatever the signs may be, they will reflect the narcissist's desire to regain control of the situation or reestablish their authority," Scigliano said.

Expect name-calling or the silent treatment.

Fights with a narcissist are very different from regular relationship spats, Elinor Greenberg, a psychologist and author of "Borderline, Narcissistic, and Schizoid Adaptations: The Pursuit of Love, Admiration, and Safety," told BI in 2023.

Some of her clients have screamed at her over minor inconveniences, such as packages arriving during their session.

"If they're going to yell at me over the UPS man, you can see just how hard it is for them to have a relationship without getting nasty," she said.

When offended, narcissists may accuse their partner of being "disrespectful" or "selfish." The world revolves around them, in their eyes, so focusing on anything else feels like a direct attack.

Narcissistic rage ranges from direct confrontation with name-calling and insults to calculated, closed-down reactions like giving their partner the silent treatment for hours.

"They give you the cold shoulder, or they walk out and they find another partner," Greenberg said. "But it's all done silently and coolly and coldly — you know what you did.

Know you'll find yourself going in circles.

Expect to feel frustrated with how the argument seems to be going nowhere.

"Because narcissists are fantastic at spinning others around in their webs of manipulation, you can easily become disoriented as to how the argument even began, frustrated over their circular arguments, and hopeless with regard to resolving anything," Scigliano said. 

"Oftentimes, people give up and give in just for the sake of ending the argument and reestablishing a modicum of peace," she said. 

Don't argue about "right" and "wrong."

There's no point trying to figure out who is "to blame" for something, as narcissists will never admit fault. They're also not necessarily trying to "win" the argument. 

"Be aware that narcissists don't argue to prove a point," divorce attorney Derek Jacques of The Mitten Law Firm told BI in 2023. "They argue to feel a rush of satisfaction of putting you down and belittling you." 

Instead, try to empathize with their feelings.

Some therapists debate whether narcissists mean to cause harm to their loved ones. Regardless of their intent, their attacks can still wound those around them. 

Narcissists become "visibly disappointed, frustrated, angry, and at times, violent when they don't receive the feedback, praise, and admiration they expect, especially from partners," Terrell Strayhorn, a professor of education and psychology at Virginia Union University, told BI in 2023.

"Their superiority complex compels them to lash out — verbally, emotionally, psychologically, and physically — against those who disappoint them," Strayhorn said.

One way to soothe a narcissist is to empathize with their feelings, Greenberg said. 

If you are in a relationship with a narcissist, you might naturally have a lot of empathy. You may be able to use that trait to help control the situation.  

Greenberg suggested saying something like, "You must have felt very hurt by what I did. I can understand why you are feeling that way."

Stay calm, and use "we" language.

Saying "we" rather than "I" or "you" includes yourself in the behavior, Greenberg said. The narcissist is probably angry that you dared to defend yourself, so you can try and remind them you're in this together and that it would be better for everyone to stop.

Scigliano also recommended remaining calm, not sharing your feelings, and sticking only to the facts.

"Expressing emotions makes it easier for the narcissist to twist the conversation around and work you into a tizzy," she said.

Redirect them by asking about a topic that interests them.

Narcissists love talking about themselves and can be know-it-alls.

Dangle a new topic in front of their face to steer the conversation away from conflict. This might not be that effective in the midst of a fierce debate, but after some time has passed, the narcissist will probably take the bait.

Another tactic is to ask for advice. It's a slightly less transparent way of changing the subject that also makes the narcissist feel superior. 

Avoid taking the bait yourself.

As retaliation for whatever hurt they feel you've caused them, narcissists will bring up past slights or accuse you of being selfish at that moment. 

One way to deal with a narcissist is to "avoid engaging with them on their level," Jacques said. That could mean biting your tongue, even as they're spewing insults at you.  

Even an innocuous statement might provide a narcissist with ammo, Jacques said. "Take those opportunities away from them and you remove their power."

Greenberg also said that by ignoring the name-calling, you can often avoid the fight. If you respond to it, things are likely to escalate, and you're giving the narcissist exactly what they want — your pain.

Remember to put yourself first.

Being in a romantic relationship with a narcissist can be an emotionally draining, damaging process. Using these methods to deal with a narcissist may help deescalate upsetting and potentially dangerous, situations.

For most people, though, breaking up with a narcissist is the better, safer option. The very nature of being a narcissist means they don't see anything wrong with themselves, so they are unlikely to ever change or seek help. Ultimately, your energy is better off being used elsewhere.

If you suspect you might be in an abusive relationship, or you know someone who is, there are services you can reach out to. The MyPlan App from One Love and the National Domestic Abuse Hotline are resources that can help.

This article was first published in February 2018 and was last updated on January 10, 2025.

• Exhibiting red flags in a job interview can be an easy way to lose out on advancing to the next stage.
• But on the flip side, there are green flags that can help set you apart and boost your chances.
• We asked 6 recruiting professionals for the green flags they look for in candidates during job interviews.

The start of the year is usually one of the busiest times for hiring as many companies have finalized their new budgets.

If you're brushing up on your interview skills right about now, BI spoke with several current and former recruiters for the traits they say always make a good first impression.

Here are the green flags they like to see in job candidates:

Demonstrating accountability

"Self-reflection, accountability, and confidence in themselves and their work," are green flags to Lauren Monroe, who leads the creative practice group at Aquent, a staffing agency for creative, marketing, and design roles.

A personalized touch also helps. Monroe recalls one candidate who "studied the job description and prepared success stories and examples for every responsibility" to share in the interview. As the cherry on top, the candidate "created a fun animation using the company's logo and added it to their email signature" in their thank-you note.

A clear pitch

Tessa White, a former head HR chief, is the CEO of The Job Doctor and author of "The Unspoken Truths for Career Success."

"When a candidate comes in and is clear on how they can help the company, and why they are a fit, it's refreshing," she says. "I often tell people, if you don't know what your value proposition is, I guarantee you the company won't know."

Mentoring others

Kyle Samuels, who leads executive search agency Creative Talent Endeavors after 20 years in senior-level executive recruiting, looks for candidates with "a history of coaching and mentoring others" because this shows they "want the organization as a whole to operate at a high level."

Enthusiasm for the job

Amri Celeste, a recruitment manager and interview coach, watches for applicants who show passion and enthusiasm for the job.

"When a candidate is particularly enthusiastic or excited about a role, the hiring manager will often be enthusiastic and excited about the candidate," she says. "It's one of the most common pieces of positive feedback I receive from managers about candidates."

Having prepared "clear examples of any achievements and duties mentioned on a résumé" ticks off another box on the candidate checklist, she adds.

Asking thoughtful questions

Marissa Morrison, VP of people at ZipRecruiter, says well-thought-out questions reflect "interest, enthusiasm, and a deeper understanding of the position."

"For example, asking about how they'd be expected to use AI or a certain new technology in the role in a job interview can be a way to demonstrate that you're up to date with current trends and willing to embrace new technologies to creatively solve problems, drive value, and support your work," she says.

An upbeat attitude

"Having a positive attitude, showing enthusiasm for the role, and being engaged during your interview can help set you apart from the competition," Amy Garefis, chief people officer at ZipRecruiter. "In my experience, it is often the tiebreaker for me between candidates with similar skills or professional experience."

For millions of Americans who have grown accustomed to the flexibility provided by their work-from-home arrangements, it's been a gloomy start to the year. As of this month, employees at Amazon and AT&T are required to start showing up in the office five days a week. Then, on Tuesday, news broke that JPMorgan is preparing to revoke the hybrid privileges of about 40% of its workforce. (The other 60% are already required to come in every day). The headlines, the latest in a steady stream of return-to-office announcements, sparked yet another round of freakouts on Reddit, LinkedIn, and countless group texts. But as someone who keeps a close watch on the American workplace, I can tell you that I'm really not worried about the future of working from home. Whatever old-school CEOs like Jamie Dimon and Andy Jassy may think of it, remote work is here to stay.

For one, take a look at the stats. The economist Nick Bloom runs a monthly survey of American workers that tracks the prevalence of remote work. At the peak of COVID, in the spring of 2020, as much as 62% of work across the economy was being done from home. As the pandemic eased, that number came tumbling down — to 37% at the beginning of 2021, 33% in 2022, and 27% in 2023. The work-from-home dream appeared to be fading.

But in the two years since, something odd has happened. Despite all the headlines about companies getting rid of hybrid arrangements, the actual prevalence of remote work has barely budged. Last month, the share of work-from-home jobs remained at 27%. The RTO wars, it seems, have reached an impasse — one in which neither side is able to score any gains.

This impasse is all the more remarkable because of the weakness of the white-collar job market. As I've reported, hiring for corporate professionals has been in a huge slump, which has given employers the upper hand to do whatever they want about remote work without risking a mass exodus of disgruntled staffers. If CEOs were waiting for the ideal market conditions to drag everyone back into the office, this would definitely be the time to do it.

And yet, as the data shows, that hasn't happened — which suggests that CEOs, for the most part, are fine with the policies they have in place today. Even if they quietly wish more employees would come into the office, they don't seem to think it's worth the disruption that would come from forcing the issue.

In fact, when you zoom out and look at the current status of work from home, what you see is nothing short of a sea change. In 2019, Bloom and his team estimate, only 4.7% of work was performed from home. That means the current level of WFH is still six times larger than it was before the pandemic. For all the Amazons and JPMorgans that are reverting to their pre-COVID policies, the norm remains tilted to hybrid work to a degree that would have been unimaginable back in 2019.

In the long run, despite the RTO efforts by the likes of Amazon and JPMorgan, I actually think working from home is almost certain to become even more common. First, given America's slowing population growth, employers will soon find themselves facing a serious labor shortage. That will force them to offer all kinds of perks to attract and retain staff — and the flexibility to work from home is sure to be one of them. Second, the WFH-friendly startups that were founded during the pandemic will continue to grow. They'll not only employ more and more remote and hybrid employees — they'll eventually come to dominate entire sectors of the economy, further cementing the value of work from home. And third, the technology that enables us to collaborate at a distance will only get better over time, reducing what's probably the biggest pain point of remote work.

That's all to say that the reports of remote work's death, to paraphrase Mark Twain, have been greatly exaggerated. After all, this is how big societal changes always happen: first comes innovation, then skepticism and fear, followed by a concerted push to return to the good old days. In the scheme of things, the office itself is a relatively recent innovation. Or consider one of the biggest inventions of Twain's time: the telephone. What was wrong with the telegraph, people asked. What's the point of switching to this new thing? Also, could it transmit ghosts? Could the electrical wiring shock you? Even as the devices proliferated, some worried that they portended the downfall of society. "The general use of the telephone," one New York Times writer lamented, "instead of promoting civility and courtesy, is the means of the fast dying out of what little we have left."

That's how laughable all the corporate hand-wringing about work from home is going to sound like a couple decades from now. Remote work, Jamie Dimon once groused, "doesn't work." History is in the process of proving him wrong.

Aki Ito is a chief correspondent at Business Insider.

• One of the most common job interview questions can also seem like one of the hardest to answer.
• The simply phrased "Tell me about yourself," can lead to sprawling answers.
• An ex-MBA admissions director shared a common mistake people make — and how they should answer instead.

For as common an interview question as it is, it can still trip up a lot of job candidates.

"Tell me about yourself."

One of recruiters' favorite questions, the simple prompt can be daunting because many candidates may try to squeeze too much of their professional experience and qualifications into their answers.

Thomas Caleel, former director of MBA admissions and financial aid at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, told Business Insider there is an effective approach to framing your answer to the question in both an academic or job interview context.

"Being able to clarify a question and re-frame it in a way that is respectful to the interviewer and shows that you can think and act under pressure, is, to me at least, a valuable skill in both the academic and corporate worlds," Caleel told BI.

Caleel talked more about the open-ended question on a recent episode of his "Admittedly" podcast.

"Most people when you ask them tell me about yourself, they will start to talk, and they will ramble and ramble and ramble," he said. "What happens is you lose your interviewer, like 30 seconds into that interview response, the interviewer's eyes glaze over, they kind of look at you and they're like, 'Oh my gosh.'"

So how exactly should you tackle the question?

Caleel recommends breaking your answer down into parts and posing a question back to the interviewer.

"What I say to do and what I think you should do instead is say 'Love to tell you about myself. There are three main areas that I'm involved in: academics, extracurricular activities, and sports (or volunteering.) Which one would you like to start with first?'" he told the podcast.

Compared to the common mistake candidates make of talking at their interviewer, this approach gets the interviewer's attention by making them "an active participant" in the conversation, Caleel said.

"By involving the interviewer in the conversation, you draw them in, you invest them in your answers instead of boring them with just a torrent of words," he added.

As a former admissions director, Caleel's advice is geared toward students applying to colleges — job candidates probably won't be talking much about academics or extracurriculars. However, for those applying to jobs, you might use as categories leadership, teamwork, and directly relevant experience, he told BI.

Regardless of the type of interview, his key point is "to try to engage the interviewer and set a more dynamic tone," he added.

Career experts also suggest highlighting some career accomplishments and focusing on the parallels and transferrable skills between your past experience and the position at stake when answering "Tell me about yourself." They say to try not to spend too long on this one question and aim to cap your response at around a minute.

"In my experience, candidates who can think on their feet, who are not cowed by the process and can remain genuine and engaged with the interviewer, usually fare well," Caleel told BI.

• It's never been tougher for first-time homebuyers to break into the market.
• Supply shortages, high mortgage rates, and skyrocketing prices are creating barriers to entry.
• Prospective homebuyers are downsizing, house hacking, or buying fixer-uppers as a result.

It might seem cliché to reminisce about the good old days, but when it comes to the housing market, things arguably were better "back then."

In the 1940s, for example, there was an ample supply of reasonably priced starter homes for first-time homebuyers. A starter home during that time typically cost between $8,000 and $12,000, or between $109,000 to $168,000 in today's dollars, according to Realtor.com.

Fast forward to today, where affordable new home construction has declined, mortgage rates are stubbornly above 6%, and the average home costs $357,469, according to Zillow data. It's no wonder that the share of first-time homebuyers in the market has shrunk to a historic low of 24%, while the age of first-time buyers has hit a record high of 38 years, according to the National Association of Realtors.

"There are a lot of financial barriers to entry for younger households," Danielle Hale, chief economist at Realtor.com, said in an interview. "As a result, we see fewer first-time home buyers. They are a smaller share of the market, and the number of home sales has been historically low in recent years."

Despite the tough times, there are some positive inklings for the housing market heading into next year: lower interest rates and increased inventory could be on the horizon in 2025. Still, housing experts are unsure if the market will significantly improve for first-time buyers in the near future.

In the meantime, first-time homebuyers seem to be making the most out of the circumstances and are getting creative with the following three homebuying habits.

Starting small

One of the most straightforward ways that homebuyers are reducing costs is by buying a smaller house. That's how Symone', a 32-year-old user-experience content designer who asked not to share her last name for privacy reasons, was able to purchase her first home in 2024: a two-bedroom, 1,300-square-foot single-family home in the Raleigh, North Carolina metro area.

Buying a house in one of the most popular real estate markets in the country wasn't a walk in the park for Symone'. Competition was fierce and inventory was limited, making it difficult to find affordable units, Symone' told BI.

"I would go to sleep basically on my phone, scrolling on Zillow trying to find something," she said.

Her biggest takeaway from the homebuying process was that she wouldn't get everything on her wish list. Symone' prioritized the urban location and made concessions on the size — her house is much smaller than the median American home size of 2,000 plus square feet, according to Bankrate.

"That's where I compromised on this house. I love it because it's a new build, and it has all the finishes that I wanted, but I definitely don't have as much storage in this house," Symone' said.

House hacking

When Tom Brickman bought his first house, he lived in the upstairs unit and rented out the downstairs unit to a tenant.

That was back in 2009, but house hacking, or renting out part of your home, has only increased in popularity as a way for first-time homeowners to get their foot in the door. The extra income from rent can help the owner pay off the mortgage on the house and build up home equity.

"I think it's definitely gained more popularity as things continue to get more and more expensive," Brickman said.

Danny Gardner, senior vice president of Mission and Community Engagement at Freddie Mac, agrees. Gardner believes that increasing living costs are leading people to become more open to nontraditional home ownership options such as sharing space.

In the twenty-plus years since Brickman's first home purchase, he's gone on to buy more houses and become a successful real-estate investor who provides coaching services to new homeowners. House hacking with two tenants was how one of Brickman's clients was able to afford a condo while working as a server in Los Angeles.

House hacking can provide a point of entry into the market, especially for otherwise prohibitively expensive markets such as Los Angeles, but Brickman cautions that it's not for everyone. Cohabiting with a tenant can create complications: when Brickman first started out, he encountered lifestyle conflicts with his downstairs neighbor and had to scramble for money to fix a broken furnace.

"It's inconvenient," Brickman said of house hacking, "but I could afford a much nicer house by doing that."

Buying a fixer-upper

Another way first-time homebuyers are combatting the rising cost of housing is by buying fixer-uppers. These houses are often available at below-market prices and can be a great deal — if you're willing to put in the work and money to invest in renovating.

According to Hale, fewer affordable starter homes are being built as builders have trended towards constructing larger, more expensive homes in recent years.

As a result, those looking to buy an accessible first-time home might not have a lot of new options to choose from.

"A lot of lower-priced homes are lower priced because they're older and could require work," Hale said.

Prospective homeowners might choose a fixer-upper due to lower competition. Brickman went this route a few years ago.

"I was just tired of getting outbid, so I took a house that needed more work than what it was needed," Brickman said of his experience buying a fixer-upper in 2022.

However, the lower price of a fixer-upper can come at the cost of the convenience of a new build, as it's difficult to accurately predict costs no matter how diligently you budget. Another one of Brickman's clients was hit with thousands of dollars of unexpected costs on a fixer-upper after an initial inspection failed to catch an issue with a retaining wall on the property.

The housing landscape is undoubtedly tough to navigate today, but until affordability improves, prospective homeowners are coming up with workarounds to get a piece of the American dream.

"Sometimes you have to get a little creative to get your foot in the door," Brickman said.

• Real estate investors share the strategies they're using in 2025.
• One investor is buying mobile home parks for tax incentives.
• Another is leaning into mid-term rentals, which tend to cash flow more than long-term rentals.

Prudent real estate investing can create long-term wealth, and while every investor has their own unique circumstances — from how much risk they're willing to take on to how much cash they have accessible — there are lessons to be learned from veteran investors.

Business Insider asked top real estate investors who have achieved financial independence or are on their way to doing so about their plans for 2025.

Here's a look at how they are positioning themselves as we head into a new year and what trends are driving their decisions.

Ludomir Wanot is buying mobile home parks for the tax incentives

Seattle-based investor Ludomir Wanot, who built his wealth wholesaling and buying long-term rentals, is adding mobile home parks to his portfolio.

They can be depreciated at a faster rate than other investment properties and significantly reduce an investor's taxable income, he explained: "The government actually allows you to depreciate at least up to 60% of the purchase price of the value of the asset in year one. I bought a million-dollar property in New York. I was able to depreciate up to $600,000 of that in the first year, and so that basically reduced my taxable income to zero."

It's a win-win, he added: "I'm providing housing for people that only make maybe $1,000 a month and I'm providing it to them at a significantly lower rate, around $200 a month. They get to live in a good community, I get to rebuild a community, and I get this crazy incentive from the government."

Mike Zuber is looking for motivated sellers

Mike Zuber, who built a portfolio of rentals in Fresno that allowed him to retire early, is expecting to see "more motivated sellers" in 2025.

"I think there are some people that will just have to sell — life events, death, divorce, all of that," he said. "And unless the house is perfect, no owner is going to buy it. The general public is basically out of the housing market. So if you have a house that's a little dated, a little old, a little bit too close to busy streets, you're going to eventually have to sell to an investor."

That's good news for Zuber and other property investors looking for deals. He's prepared to "write offers that make sense at a high cost of capital."

Dion McNeeley is considering selling a property and capitalizing on an IRS rule

Dion McNeeley, who spent over a decade carefully building a portfolio of rental properties throughout Washington State, has never sold a property.

"I'm the slow, boring investor: Save up a down payment, buy the next place; save up a down payment, buy the next place," he said.

That may change in 2025, partly due to an intriguing tax benefit he'll be eligible for.

McNeeley's most recent real estate project was buying and rehabbing a duplex. He lives in one unit and rents the other. In July 2025, he'll have owned and lived in the duplex for two years, which qualifies him for the Section 121 Exclusion, an IRS rule that lets taxpayers exclude up to $250,000 of the gain from the sale of the property. The main requirement is that you must use the home as your main residence for at least two of the five years preceding the sale.

"I could sell it, make a couple hundred thousand dollars in profit, and not have to pay a penny in taxes — and either go and repeat the process somewhere else or go buy something with the gains and have a bigger, nicer place," said McNeeley, who plans to make a decision in July after doing an appraisal.

Nyasia Casey is testing a strategy she might want to scale: Building tiny homes

Nyasia Casey, who lives in New York City and owns investment properties in Baltimore, is excited about a new 2025 project: building a tiny home on a plot of land that her friends own in upstate New York.

"I'm going to buy a trailer and build a tiny house. I'm going to keep it on wheels so I can transport it if I wanted to go somewhere else with it — if I buy my own land," said Casey, who is starting the build in the spring.

She'll likely experiment with listing it on a short-term rental platform like Airbnb, she said: "I like the idea of it being a more affordable option for people to go and explore instead of renting something for $300 a night. So, it's something that I'm testing out and then if it works, I will definitely consider buying land and doing a couple more."

Dana Bull is experimenting with mid-term rentals

Massachusetts-based investor Dana Bull built wealth by following a specific strategy: buying quality properties with upside in solid areas and filling them with long-term tenants.

However, with the most recent property she purchased and renovated in 2023, she decided to experiment with operating a mid-term rental, which is a lease agreement that typically lasts between three and nine months.

"It's my first experience with something other than a long-term rental. I'm kind of in uncharted waters, but it's been great," said Bull, who plans to test out the mid-term rental strategy for at least 18 months. It's more work than managing a long-term tenant, but she said she's bringing in more revenue, which is helpful since she bought when interest rates were relatively high.

Bull has already refinanced once, which shaved about $250 off of her mortgage.

"I'd love it if they dropped again and I could save another 250," she said. "At that point, I probably would transition it to a long-term rental because it would be lucrative enough and less of a headache, but right now I'm just experimenting for my own curiosity and I want to understand more about this niche."

Karina Mejia is expanding her portfolio, starting with a BRRRR

Karina Mejia, who owns investment properties in Boston, where she lives, and Augusta, Georgia, sat out 2024 in terms of acquisition but plans to expand in 2025.

"I definitely would like to continue purchasing property primarily because of the tax advantages," she said. "This year, I didn't close on anything, and so I'm really going to see the effect of that on my taxes."

She's under contract for a three-family home in Boston and plans to close at the end of January.

"I'll end up renovating and BRRRR-ing it," said Mejia, who is also an agent and jumped on this property when she saw it. "I have it under agreement for 850 and the appraisal came back already at 930 in its as-is condition. I'm projecting to put some money into it and I know that the ARV, or the after-repair value, will end up being over a million so I may even be able to get back more money when I refinance than I'm putting into it, which would be great because then I get my money back and I can invest that in another property next year."

Peter Keane Rivera is leaning into his rent-by-the-room strategy

Part-time investor Peter Keane-Rivera, who owns single-family homes in the greater Seattle area, is leaning into his rent-by-the-room strategy.

"I'm looking to expand my single-family home, room rental portfolio," he said. "My strategy will be to accelerate my purchasing of real estate while learning how to scale my room rental operations."

Finding tenants to share a space hasn't been a challenge yet for Keane-Rivera, who lists his rooms on Roomster, Roomies, and Facebook Marketplace.

"There are a lot of different subgroups looking for something more economical: people coming out of college, people getting their first job, people who just got divorced," he said. "I would say everyone that rents with me is looking to save money."

The room rental strategy produces generous positive cash flow, around $1,000 a month per property, and lowers his risk, he said: "You diversify your cash flow by having four tenants under one roof instead of one. Very rarely will you have all your tenants move out, and if you do, that's indicative of some bigger problem that you should probably go fix."

• Mark Cuban tried to invest in Musical.ly, the platform that would become TikTok.
• Cuban says the platform lost its spark, becoming "corporate."
• In an interview, Cuban said focusing on monetization often harms the user experience.

Mark Cuban tried to invest in TikTok's precursor years ago, but said the company turned him down.

Cuban told content creator and journalist Jules Terpak in an interview on her YouTube channel that he enjoyed using TikTok when it was called Musical.ly.

The platform rebranded to TikTok in 2017 when it was acquired by its current owners, ByteDance.

"I loved it because I could just turn it on and there would be 15,000 people live immediately that I could talk to," Cuban said of Musical.ly.

"It was insane. I loved it. And then, as it got into the dances and everything, it was fun."

Cuban told CNBC he tried to invest in Musical.ly but was unsuccessful because the company wasn't looking to raise more funds at the time.

Cuban told Terpak he thinks TikTok is less fun than it used to be and "more corporate."

He said that the dance-focused version of the app was losing billions of dollars, "and so at some point, they had to start trying to make some money."

"I liked it better when it was dances and music," Cuban said. "Now it's a business."

Cuban said TikTok's early beauty was that its algorithm served users with more of what they liked than any other platform.

"Now it's corporate," he said. "It's how many followers can you get and how can you engage those followers."

There's "a diminishing return" for users when platforms monetize, Cuban said, driven by business realities.

"At some point, if you're there to make money, you have to figure out how to make money," he said.

Cuban's thoughts hit on an increasing frustration many users have with TikTok, where they are flooded with ads and many see the platform as a pseudo-shopping channel.

Cuban has a TikTok account himself, where he has 1.1 million followers — though he doesn't post often.

In 2023, he faced some backlash for a "tip of the day" on making money, in which he told people to cut back on extra lattes and streaming services.

"You want to put that in a money market account earning five, maybe more, percent and watch that sucker grow," he said. "That'll make you feel a whole lot better than that extra latte that you had that day."

Some criticized the advice for being unrealistic and out of touch with the majority of people.

Cuban didn't address the critics, only posting another tip of the day to "be nice" and "smile."

According to Bloomberg, Cuban has a net worth of around $8 billion. In 1990, he sold his first tech company, MicroSolutions, for $6 million and went on to invest in several successful businesses through "Shark Tank."

In October, Cuban announced he would be leaving "Shark Tank" after its 16th season to spend more time with his kids.

• Nearly 75% of executives said in a survey they'd mandate at least three days a week in the office in 2025.
• Many companies cite collaboration, productivity, and culture as reasons for office return.
• RTO mandates could lead to higher turnover, especially among women and skilled workers.

Many bosses with an RTO policy in place plan to ask employees to spend more time in the office next year.

In a recent survey from Resume.org, nearly three-quarters of execs at companies that have already implemented some form of an RTO policy said they would require workers to be in the office at least three days a week by the end of 2025.

The November survey of 900 business leaders underscores a general trend of bosses demanding to see more heads bobbing atop cubicles in the new year.

Some of the companies demanding more face time instead of FaceTime are big-name employers like Amazon, AT&T, and Starbucks.

In the Resume.org survey, 73% of respondents whose companies already have an RTO rule said they would require workers to report to the office at least three times a week by the end of 2025. Almost one in three expect to require workers to come in every workday, while only 2% expect to allow workers to show up once a week or less.

While many employers calling workers back to the office point to productivity — as respondents did in the Resume.org survey — being in person doesn't necessarily boost how much gets done, said Nicole Kyle, who researches the future of work.

She told Business Insider that many studies suggest productivity and performance don't drastically change when workers aren't side-by-side. Instead, such metrics can remain steady or even increase if an organization allows more remote or hybrid work, Kyle, the cofounder of CMP Research, said.

Various studies have come to conflicting conclusions on how remote, hybrid, or fully in-office work impacts productivity — and one complicating factor could be the matter of how best to define or measure productivity.

Bosses might not care if you quit

Employees, in some cases, have pushed back — often unsuccessfully — against RTO mandates. Yet many business leaders don't regard these mandates as asking too much of the people they're paying to do a job.

In the survey, about one-third of bosses said they were worried workers would quit because of the RTO policies, while 49% said they weren't very concerned or weren't concerned at all. Of those surveyed, 18% were uncertain.

About seven in 10 execs said the reason to have workers back IRL is to promote collaboration and teamwork. Nearly six in 10 said the move was aimed at improving communication. And about half pointed to a desire to strengthen the organization's culture and raise productivity.

Lisa Walker, a managing partner at the executive search firm DHR Global, told BI that some employers can benefit from bringing back workers because it allows more experienced people to mentor newer workers. She said that's often harder to do when workers aren't in person.

"To get the junior people into the office, you need to get the senior people back to the office," she said.

In the Resume.org survey, four in 10 respondents said they wanted to use office space that might otherwise lie fallow.

It's understandable that bosses wouldn't want to let sometimes pricey real estate go unused, though strict in-office rules can also have a cost.

Researchers from the University of Pittsburg and other academic institutions recently reported that S&P 500 companies that require workers to return to the office subsequently experience "abnormally high" rates of workers quitting and have a harder time filling open roles.

The researchers found that those leaving are often female, more senior, or more skilled. The findings are based on the employment histories of more than 3 million tech and finance workers, as reported on LinkedIn.

"The return-to-office mandates are having pretty specific and negative impacts and causing brain drain from companies," said Kyle, who wasn't involved in the research.

Perhaps with those types of concerns in mind, some leaders have said they likely would only tighten the RTO screws if productivity suffered. Among them, Google CEO Sundar Pichai said in October that the company wouldn't require workers to come to the office as long as they remained on task when working from home.

Do you have something to share about your employer's RTO plan, something else at work, or in your job search? Business Insider would like to hear from you. Email our workplace team from a nonwork device at [email protected] with your story, or ask for one of our reporter's Signal numbers.

• "Quiet vacationing," "coffee badging," and "ghost jobs" were part of the corporate lexicon in 2024.
• These are just some of the trends that came to dominate our conversations around work.
• Here's a look back at work in 2024.

Ghost jobs. Coffee badging. Quiet firing. Quiet vacationing.

The buzziest workplace trends this year didn't just become well-known tropes but also highlighted an ongoing power struggle between workers and bosses after the pandemic shook up the way people do their jobs.

The year's biggest movements reflect "shifts in work models, technological integration, and employee expectations," says Lauren Winans, CEO and HR consultant at Next Level Benefits.

While some of these are by no means new fads, they all featured prominently in the discourse around work this year. Here are the trends that dominated the cultural conversation in 2024:

Ghost jobs

Ghost jobs are nothing new but got a lot of attention this year.

These are roles which employers claim to be looking to fill even though they may not actually be hiring for such positions.

Employers may list ghost jobs for a few reasons. They might want to suggest they're doing well and growing; they could be trying to ready a talent pool for actual positions opening in the future; or they may want to imply to overworked employees that they'll get some additional help soon.

Quiet vacationing

This one pretty much explains itself, but just in case: When employees go on vacation without using any time off or telling their bosses, they're said to be quiet vacationing.

RTO

Return-to-office mandates continued rolling out at big firms this year. Amazon, one of the country's biggest employers, became one of the highest-profile companies to announce a full 5-day-a-week return to the office. (Its implementation has been delayed for some employees though, due to a lack of space.)

Hushed hybrid

As employers tightened the reins on remote work, some employees started carving out a new working arrangement under the table.

Enter the hushed hybrid schedule, in which employees skirt RTO mandates by getting their manager's approval to continue working from home on days they're technically required to be in the office.

Managers, for their part, might agree to do this to keep their employees happy (or to keep them, period). They also probably have a more personal connection with the workers affected by a mandate than the executives enforcing it. And of course, managers who are themselves opposed to RTO plans might also cut employees some slack out of sympathy.

Coffee badging

Another method of evading RTO is coffee badging — though it still technically requires that an employee return to the office.

The practice involves going to work to swipe your badge so your attendance is logged. But instead of spending the rest of the workday there, you kill some time by grabbing a coffee, or showing face with a quick lap around the office, before returning home to do most of your actual work there.

PIPs

Performance improvement plans, or PIPs, usually consist of a series of goals set for an employee to improve in areas where a boss says they're underperforming. If they're not completed in the allotted time, usually a few months or less, the employee will face termination.

PIPs are certainly not unique this year but statistically have been more frequently issued in recent years. They got renewed attention in 2024 as part of the discussion around ways employers trim headcount unannounced.

Quiet firing, silent layoffs, and stealth sackings

Yes, these are all somehow different things.

Between RTO mandates and PIPs, "quiet firing," which gained a lot of buzz in recent years, stayed in the spotlight in 2024. It refers to a boss or employer's unspoken attempt to encourage employees to quit by making the role more uncomfortable, as opposed to facing the monetary and reputational costs associated with explicitly laying them off.

Related phrases include "silent layoffs," which refers to giving employees severance packages but asking them to be discreet about their exiting the firm.

There's also "stealth sackings," coined by the Financial Times to describe firing employees over minor offenses. The newspaper cited Meta's dismissal of two dozen staff for using $25 GrubHub meal credits to buy non-food items as an example, and EY's firing of dozens of staffers for watching multiple online training courses simultaneously.

Other key trends

There were also other trends that, though they lack flashy names, also shaped how we worked in 2024.

The main one, of course, was the growing adoption of AI in the workplace, the "standout trend" of the year, according to Amy Schabacker Dufrane, CEO of the Human Resource Certification Institute and the Human Resource Standards Institute.

Winans says other trends included an emphasis on upskilling and reskilling to keep up with technological advancements and changing job requirements, as well as increased labor organizing efforts.

What can we expect in 2025?

Next year, the integration of AI at work will no doubt continue.

"Employees expect training and transparency about AI's role, while employers navigate concerns about job security and ethics," says Dufrane.

Other themes to watch include an emphasis on skills-based hiring and employee wellness programs, as well as ongoing changes to companies' ESG and DEI strategies.

Employee engagement in the US hitting an 11-year low in 2024, coupled with the possibility it may be easier to change jobs in 2025 mean that revenge quitting may also be the next big thing in workplace trends come next year, according to a Glassdoor report.

The phrase refers to dissatisfied employees being vocal with their discontent and resigning, often with little or no notice, knowing it could negatively impact their employer.

Heading into 2025, "monitoring employee satisfaction will be more important than ever," says Dufrane.

"We may see an increase in trends like bare-minimum attendance or revenge quitting as return-to-work mandates require employees to be on-site more than the post-COVID norm," she adds. "Prioritizing open communication, as well as autonomy, fairness, and a high-trust environment, will be critical for organizations to succeed."

• Bayer's CEO overhauled his corporate budget system with 90-day cycles in an effort to reduce bureaucracy.
• Bill Anderson said the inspiration came from a "radical experiment" at Genentech to kill budgets.
• Bayer also reorganizes teams every 90 days and has cut 5,500 positions, many of which were managers.

The annual budget process can be a parade of lengthy meetings and red tape — so one CEO decided to try something different.

Since becoming CEO at Bayer, Bill Anderson has introduced a set of striking changes to the company, including an overhaul of its budget system, which he sees as the driving source of corporate bureaucracy.

"We all know that the belly of the beast of bureaucracy is the budget process, right," Anderson said in an interview with Business Insider. "Everybody knows that. Everyone hates it."

Every 90 days, Anderson reallocates budgets for the next cycle.

The executive said the decision to take the company "90 days at a time" was inspired by a "radical experiment" he helped implement at Genentech in 2016 before becoming CEO of the biotech company in 2017. After what he described as an unsuccessful attempt to de-bureaucratize the budgeting process at Genentech, Anderson said Genentech decided to "kill all budgets."

However, the plan didn't lead to lower spending, he told BI.

While company spending at Genentech went down in the first year, it shot right back up a year later, Anderson said. While the CEO didn't want to bring back the old process, he concluded he had to find something to replace it with.

Genentech declined to comment.

Anderson brought the lesson to German life science company Bayer, where, a month after becoming CEO in June 2023, he replaced annual budget discussions with 90-day cycles. Instead of managers spending five months setting targets and forecasting, Anderson said squads come together every 90 days to discuss whether the company achieved its goals, how it used resources, and what it needs to focus on next.

In a conventional budget process, Anderson said the team would be discussing what they're going to do in the third quarter a year ahead. The problem with that, he said, is "nobody knows" what they'll be doing that far in advance.

"That's a waste of time," Anderson said. "They're negotiating over budgets for Q4 next year. They don't even know what they're going to be doing."

The budget overhaul is part of a larger restructuring which the company refers to as "Dynamic Shared Ownership." In addition to flipping the budget system, the model also reorganizes staff every 90 days into "mini networks" made up of who is best suited to lead that specific project.

"So every 90 days, people can flow between teams, money can flow between teams," Anderson said. "And you're working on the most important things for the next 90 days."

In a press release announcing the new operating model in January 2024, the company said the structure would "reduce hierarchies, eliminate bureaucracy, streamline structures," and speed up the decision-making process.

A company spokesperson told BI that select groups called "frontrunner teams" transitioned to the new model in the summer of 2023. Now, most of the company has moved to the new structure. Along the way, managerial positions have changed, with some transitioning to individual contributors and others being laid off.

Since the beginning of the year, the company has cut about 5,500 roles, most of which were managers, shrinking its overall headcount from around 100,000 down to around 94,500. A spokesperson said layoffs are ongoing.

Anderson said some teams, like those that started the transition a year ago, "are racing ahead and doing great," while other groups are "still stuck in the starting blocks." He added that the company's voluntary attrition rate has gone down since transitioning to the new operating structure.

The company has embarked on a plan to cut costs by about 2 billion euros by 2026. Bayer's stock price is down 46% since the beginning of the year. In its third-quarter earnings, the company reported over $4 billion in net losses and shared expectations for a "muted outlook" and "declining earnings" over the next year.

The company has faced several recent headwinds, including the expected loss of exclusivity on the blood-thinning drug Xarelto. Anderson said the drug was once responsible for a significant amount of Bayer's profits.

The company has also grappled with legal battles over Roundup, a herbicide produced by Monsanto, which Bayer purchased for $63 billion in 2018. The product has been the subject of thousands of lawsuits alleging it causes cancer, and Bayer agreed to pay billions of dollars to resolve some of the litigation while it also appeals some of the court decisions.

"The litigation topic is a big overhang for our company," Anderson said, adding that "there's a lot of great things happening" but investors want the company to deal with the lawsuits, which it is.

When Bayer announced the new operating model, the company said its goal was to become "more agile and significantly improve its operational performance," and Anderson has already reported some positive results.

In Bayer's third-quarter earnings report, Anderson said Bayer's Pharma division outside Milan cut release time by almost 50%, resulting in less waste, improved cash flow, and lower inventory. Anderson said in the report that when he first asked about success stories, he would get the same two or three examples.

"Now, I'm hearing stories like these basically on a daily basis," Anderson told investors. "I'm confident that will translate into results for our investors, and a bright future for us and our customers."

• Real estate investor Ludomir Wanot shares strategies anyone can use to find deals.
• He doesn't expect rates to drop in 2025 and encourages investors to lean into creative financing.
• Strategies such as subject-to financing can help investors avoid excessive borrowing costs.

Real-estate investor Ludomir Wanot wants other investors to know that there are deals to be found — you just have to know where to look.

"I love rentals. I love to see the physical, tangible assets," the Seattle-based millennial, who built his wealth wholesaling and now runs an AI company that helps lenders communicate with their clients, told Business Insider. "The proven, consistent strategy that's worked for me over the last seven years is sticking with the rental strategy of buying at a 30% discount to appraised value, making sure it cash flows at least $500 a month, and the property has to be in an opportunity zone — and I find these properties all the time."

He's acquired five units in Oregon in the last five months, which BI verified by looking at settlement statements.

"They're definitely out there," he said. "But sometimes they're not in Washington. Sometimes you have to look outside the state."

Wanot shared strategies that any investor can use to find deals, what types of properties he's looking for and what he's avoiding, and the simplest way for anyone to break into real estate investing in 2025.

Source off-market deals through wholesalers

One strategy for finding deals is to look for off-market properties — meaning, properties for sale that are not listed on the multiple listing service. While more difficult to find, they're typically easier to negotiate thanks to less competition.

There are various ways to find off-market properties, from real-estate auction websites to Craigslist to door-knocking. There's also wholesaling, which is when the person acting as the wholesaler finds and buys a discounted property and then sells the contract to another buyer.

Having done wholesaling for years, Wanot is aware that "there are wholesalers that consistently find discounted properties, and you can find those people on Facebook, through investment communities, they're all over."

He encourages investors to meet with wholesalers in their area and provide them with specific property criteria. If you're new to investing and haven't yet built a network, start by attending real-estate meet-ups or joining online real-estate communities.

As Wanot has learned, "Surround yourself with people who know more than you, ask questions, and build relationships with all different kinds of people you meet because you never know when you can work with them down the road."

Maximize cash flow with creative financing

Wanot doesn't expect rates to drop significantly in 2025. To get a property to generate positive cash flow in a higher-rate environment, he recommends leaning into creative financing.

"With interest rates remaining high, traditional financing methods may not yield the best returns," he said, but strategies such as seller financing, subject-to agreements, and private lending could help investors lock in better terms and avoid excessive borrowing costs.

Seller financing is when the buyer buys directly from the seller. The seller acts as the lender and provides a loan with agreed-upon terms about things like the interest rate and schedule of payments.

With subject-to financing, the buyer takes over the existing financing. The buyer doesn't actually assume the mortgage — it remains in the seller's name with the same terms — but will make mortgage payments on behalf of the seller.

Private money lending is another way to avoid a bank or traditional mortgage lender, and can be a "great way to avoid high interest rates and fees," said Wanot, adding: "I've had a lot of luck sourcing private money lenders through real estate Facebook groups."

Look for single-family homes that need work

"If you're a new investor, I'd definitely go after the distressed, small single-family homes," said Wanot.

Another tip is to look for property where the seller has "at least 50% equity in the home and has owned it for a long time," he said, as they might be more motivated to negotiate, especially if they're managing it from out-of-state. "I'm looking at owners who are over the age of 50 because the older owners tend to want to get out of the real estate space. It is so draining and requires a lot of physical and mental work."

Wanot owns multi-family properties but has found that they're more difficult to make the numbers work, at least in his current market.

"If you're a sophisticated investor, yes, small or large multi-families are good if you actually have run your numbers 1,000 times and you know exactly what you're looking for," he said. "There have been probably five properties that I was going to buy in the last year that I didn't pull the trigger on because the profit and loss statements that were given to me were significantly different from the actual bank statements."

A common mistake he's seen investors make, especially when it comes to these big multi-families, is just paying attention to the P&Ls, "which are made by the property managers or the owners of the property and show one story," he said. "They're not actually going through the bank statements and seeing what actual revenue is coming in and what expenses are going out."

He also advises avoiding the BRRRR — buy, rehab, rent, refinance, and repeat — method in a high-rate environment: "It hasn't really been working the last couple of years because the interest rates are so high right now, and so smart investors are moving away from that."

The easiest way to get started: Rent a portion of your home

For most new investors, the simplest and most risk-averse way to get started is "creating rentable units in their single-family home space," said Wanot, referring to a strategy known as "house hacking."

This requires owning a primary residence and converting a garage, basement, or even a bedroom into a rentable space. If you have a bigger budget and meet zoning requirements in your area, another option may be to build an ADU.

At a minimum, renting out a portion of your home will reduce your mortgage — and could even fully cover it. Lowering your monthly housing payment could then help you save up to buy a proper investment property.

Wanot's top advice heading into the new year, however, is to actually implement what you read about and learn. Taking action could be as small as joining a real estate community and networking.

"People are buying programs, they're going to the events, they're watching people come up onstage and talk about how wealthy they got through a particular strategy. But very few people actually implement anything they're being taught," he said.

"The day we actually stop listening to and reading all these stories, podcasts, and YouTube videos and actually apply ourselves is the day we're finally going to start seeing progress in our lives."

• One of the biggest parts of preparing for a job interview is running through practice questions.
• We asked recruiting pros for their top interview questions and how a candidate should answer them.
• Here's what they told us.

When you're preparing for a job interview, one of the first things you can do is research what previous candidates have shared about their own interviews with that employer. Some of the most helpful information to glean, if you can find it, is what interview questions you might expect to be asked.

To help job seekers who might not be able to find common questions asked by a specific company, we asked five recruiting professionals for their favorite questions to ask in job interviews.

They also broke down how candidates should answer and what the answers can reveal about them. Of course, the slate of questions asked in an interview can vary based on the recruiter's personal preferences, the role, and other factors — but these go-to questions from recruiters are a good place to start.

Here's a look at questions recruiters love to ask that they say can be particularly telling about a candidate.

'Tell me a time when you found a way to improve a process, made something more efficient, or otherwise introduced an improvement when you weren't asked to do so.'

Kyle Samuels, who spent 20 years in senior-level executive recruiting and is now CEO of executive search agency Creative Talent Endeavors, said he likes this question because it helps identify "proactive leaders who are willing to answer difficult questions and drive business results."

He recommends candidates use the STAR method — focusing on the situation, task, action, and result — to answer this question and really highlight their "initiative and drive."

"I'm also looking for candidates who can stand up to additional questioning well and describe specifics within each example or story they share when responding," he said.

He shared with us one example of how a STAR-formatted answer to this question might look:

• Situation: "Our SaaS solution isn't cutting it."
• Task: "I was assigned to fix the problem."
• Action: "I spoke to other CTOs to get recommendations, found a final list of five, and then evaluated them against the incumbent so we could make the right hiring decision."
• Result: Explain the end result and what happened after taking the actions described.

'Tell me about a time when something went terribly wrong with a project.'

This question shows a candidate's "ability to take responsibility for mistakes, solve problems, communicate effectively, and collaborate with others," said Lauren Monroe, who leads the creative practice group at Aquent, a staffing agency for creative, marketing, and design roles.

An ideal answer would "name the specific challenge faced, acknowledge the mistakes made, and identify the actions taken, lessons learned, and solutions implemented to solve the problem," she added.

'What key elements need to be in your next role, and what would be a dealbreaker for you?'

Amri Celeste, a recruitment manager and interview coach, likes this question because it gets at "what a candidate is really looking for in a role and whether the role we're discussing matches what they expect in their next role."

"It's also an opportunity to open up a more honest dialogue about their values, work style, and career goals, which helps me learn about not only how well they suit the role, but also how well they might suit the team and management style of the manager," she said.

'Tell me about yourself.'

It's a tried-and-true interview question, and Andrew Fennell, a former corporate recruiter and the founder of the résumé-builder website StandOut CV, leans on it to set the tone in interviews.

"After introducing myself and explaining how I've arrived to the point of this interview, I ask the candidate to do the same," he said.

"It relaxes the atmosphere a bit, makes it a bit more conversational, and allows the candidate to give a well-rounded summary of their experience and skills," he added.

'Tell me about the greatest impact you made at a company and what helped you achieve that impact.'

Tessa White, a former head of HR, is the CEO of The Job Doctor and the author of "The Unspoken Truths for Career Success."

Besides asking about a candidate's achievements, White also tries to gauge their ability to problem-solve by asking questions about challenges they've encountered in the past.

She'll ask, for example, "Tell me about a time you were at odds with someone or a department and you were able to successfully move through it."

Other times, she might say, "Tell me about a time when an initiative or project you were leading wasn't going the way you hoped. How did you handle it and what is your philosophy for addressing obstacles?"

For all of these questions, she said the ideal answer should be "authentic and real." If it's not, a recruiter can "sniff it a mile away," she said.

"I'm not looking for the answer you think I want to hear," she said. "I'm looking to see an imperfect person that has insight into their strengths as well as someone who understands how to learn from previous mistakes."

• Elon Musk fixes the biggest problems at his companies every week, Marc Andreessen says.
• Musk quickly tackles pressing issues by working directly with engineers and coders, the VC said.
• The Tesla and SpaceX CEO's method attracts great talent and inspires deep loyalty, Andreessen said.

Elon Musk has built some of the world's most valuable companies, from Tesla to SpaceX. A key driver of his success is a relentless focus on solving problems fast, often by working directly with the engineers or coders who've gotten stuck, Marc Andreessen says.

The legendary venture capitalist shared his insights from working closely with Musk on X, xAI, and SpaceX during a recent episode of the "Modern Wisdom" podcast.

Unlike many CEOs, Musk is devoted to understanding every aspect of his businesses, the Andreessen Horowitz cofounder and general partner said. He's "in the trenches and talking directly to the people who do the work," and acting as the "lead problem solver in the organization."

Musk's businesses include Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, xAI, The Boring Company, and X — formerly Twitter. Andreessen said that every week at each of his companies, Musk "identifies the biggest problem that the company is having that week and he fixes it. And then he does that every week for 52 weeks in a row. And then each of his companies has solved the 52 biggest problems that year, in that year."

In contrast, the bosses of most large corporations spend months or years holding meetings, watching presentations, and conducting legal and compliance reviews before they address their most pressing issues, Andreessen told host Chris Williamson.

Musk sees his businesses almost like assembly lines, and he focuses on removing bottlenecks and speeding up the conveyer belt a little more every week, the billionaire VC and Netscape cofounder said.

His laser focus on fixing problems attracts exceptionally talented people to his companies who want to work extremely hard and meet exacting standards, fueling further success for his businesses, Andreessen said.

Straight to the source

When Musk spots a bottleneck, he cuts through the layers of management to talk to the people actually working on the line or writing the code, Andreessen said.

"So he's not asking the VP of engineering to ask the director of engineering to ask the manager to ask the individual contributor to write a report that's to be reviewed in three weeks," the early-stage investor said. "He would throw them all out of the window."

Andreessen said Musk's approach of finding the person grappling with a particular issue, and then working with them to solve it, inspires deep loyalty.

The person thinks "if I'm up against a problem I don't know how to solve, freaking Elon Musk is going to show up in his Gulfstream, and he's going to sit with me overnight in front of the keyboard, or in front of the manufacturing line, and he's going to help me figure this out," the tech guru said.

Musk's strategy of tackling problem after problem has a "catalytic, multiplicative effect" that helps his businesses power ahead of rivals, Andreessen added.

In the past, Musk has been criticized for spreading himself too thin and not allocating enough time, energy, and resources to any one business like Tesla.

The world's wealthiest man has also said at points that he's working too hard and juggling too much, and his "hardcore" management style has been slammed as brutal and mercurial.

But in terms of technical progress and value generation, Musk's approach of getting involved quickly to fix things appears to be paying off.

• Michael Dell says humor is vital and workers need to laugh and play and relax sometimes.
• The Dell Technologies chief said people shouldn't always listen to their parents' advice.
• Dell said he goes to sleep early, works out around dawn, and enjoys Texas barbecue.

Laugh and play pranks, balance work with downtime, and don't always listen to your parents' advice, Michael Dell says.

The Dell Technologies founder and CEO shared the colorful life advice during a recent episode of the "In Good Company" podcast. Dell, 59, ranked 13th on the Bloomberg Billionaires Index with a $115 billion fortune at Thursday's close.

The personal-computing pioneer said humor plays a key role at his company.

"If you can't laugh, joke around, play tricks on people, you're doing it wrong, right?" he said. "You have to be able to laugh at yourself."

Dell said he toiled tirelessly as a young man to build his company, which generated $88 billion of revenue last year. But he warned against overworking and burnout.

"I learned a long time ago that there's a diminishing return to the number of hours worked in any given day, " he said. "And if you're going to do something for a long time, you better find the [right mixture of] working and playing and relaxing."

Dell said he goes to bed at about 8:30 or 9 p.m. each night and wakes up around 4 or 5 a.m. to exercise.

"You won't find me at the nightcap," he said. "I'll be asleep."

Barbecue and bad advice

The Texan businessman also voiced his love for one of his home state's delicacies, even if he doesn't prepare it himself.

"I believe in the theory of labor specialization, so I personally am not cooking a lot of barbecue, but I'm definitely eating barbecue," he said.

Dell also offered some general advice for young people: "Experiment, take risks, fail, find difficult problems, do something valuable, don't be afraid, and, you know, be bold."

He recalled his parents encouraging him to become a doctor and urging him to set aside his passion for building computers. On the other hand, he remembered his mother telling him and his two brothers when they were little to "play nice but win," which became his company's guiding philosophy and the title of his 2021 book.

"Well, yeah, your parents aren't always right, but they're not always wrong either," he said, adding people's "mileage may vary on the parents."

• Many executives say they've learned valuable lessons on business from books.
• Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Bill Gates are no exception.
• Here are 20 books they've said taught them a lot about business, leadership, and the forces shaping our world.

You learn by doing — but you can also learn a lot by reading.

Many influential business figures, including Tesla CEO Elon Musk, Amazon cofounder Jeff Bezos, and Microsoft cofounder Bill Gates say they've learned some of the most important lessons in their lives from books.

They've recommended countless books over the years that they credit with strengthening their business acumen and shaping their worldviews.

Here are 20 books recommended by Musk, Bezos, and Gates to add to your reading list:

Jeff Bezos

Some of Bezos' favorite books were instrumental to the creation of products and services like the Kindle and Amazon Web Services.

"The Innovator's Solution"

This book on innovation explains how companies can become disruptors. It's one of three books Bezos made his top executives read one summer to map out Amazon's trajectory.

"The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement"

Also on that list was "The Goal," in which Eliyahu M. Goldratt and Jeff Cox examine the theory of constraints from a management perspective.

Buy it here >>

"The Effective Executive"

The final book on Bezos' reading list for senior managers, "The Effective Executive" lays out habits of successful executives, like time management and effective decision-making.

"Built to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies"

This book draws on six years of research from the Stanford University Graduate School of Business that looks into what separates exceptional companies from their competitors. Bezos has said it's his "favorite business book."

Buy it here >>

"The Remains of the Day"

This Kazuo Ishiguro novel tells of an English butler in wartime England who begins to question his lifelong loyalty to his employer while on a vacation.

Bezos has said of the book, "Before reading it, I didn't think a perfect novel was possible."

Buy it here >>

"Lean Thinking: Banish Waste and Create Wealth in Your Corporation"

This book imparts lessons about improving efficiency based on case studies of lean companies across various industries.

Buy it here >>

Elon Musk

The Tesla CEO has recommended several AI books, sci-fi novels, and biographies over the years.

"What We Owe the Future"

One of Musk's most recent picks, this book tackles longtermism, which its author defines as "the view that positively affecting the long-run future is a key moral priority of our time." Musk says the book is a "close match" for his philosophy.

"Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies"

Musk has also recommended several books on artificial intelligence, including this one, which considers questions about the future of intelligent life in a world where machines might become smarter than people.

Buy it here >>

"Our Final Invention: Artificial Intelligence and the End of the Human Era"

On the subject of AI, Musk said in a 2014 tweet that this book, which examines its risks and potential, is also "worth reading."

Buy it here >>

"Life 3.0: Being Human in the Age of Artificial Intelligence"

In this book, MIT professor Max Tegmark writes about ensuring artificial intelligence and technological progress remain beneficial for human life in the future.

"Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future"

Peter Thiel shares lessons he learned founding companies like PayPal and Palantir in this book.

Musk has said of the book, "Thiel has built multiple breakthrough companies, and Zero to One shows how."

Buy it here >>

"Einstein: His Life and Universe"

Musk's reading list isn't without biographies, including this Walter Isaacson book on Albert Einstein as well as Isaacon's biography of Benjamin Franklin. Isaacson more recently published a biography of Musk himself.

Buy it here >>

Bill Gates

The Microsoft cofounder usually publishes two lists each year, one in the summer and one at year's end, of his book recommendations.

"How the World Really Works"

In his 2022 summer reading list, Gates highlighted this work by Vaclav Smil that explores the fundamental forces underlying today's world, including matters like energy production and globalization.

"If you want a brief but thorough education in numeric thinking about many of the fundamental forces that shape human life, this is the book to read," Gates said of the book.

"Why We're Polarized"

Ezra Klein argues that the American political system has became polarized around identity to dangerous effect in this book, also on Gates' summer reading list in 2022, that Gates calls "a fascinating look at human psychology."

"Business Adventures: Twelve Classic Tales from the World of Wall Street"

Gates has said this is "the best business book I've ever read." It compiles 12 articles that originally appeared in The New Yorker about moments of success and failure at companies like General Electric and Xerox.

Buy it here >>

"Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World—and Why Things Are Better Than You Think"

This book investigates the thinking patterns and tendencies that distort people's perceptions of the world. Gates has called it "one of the most educational books I've ever read."

Buy it here >>

"Origin Story: A Big History of Everything"

David Christian takes on the history of our universe, from the Big Bang to mass globalization, in this book.

Buy it here >>

"The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History"

Elizabeth Kolbert plumbs the history of Earth's mass extinctions in this book, including a sixth extinction, which some scientists warn is already underway.

Buy it here >>

"The Myth of the Strong Leader: Political Leadership in the Modern Age"

This Archie Brown book examines political leadership throughout the 20th century.

Buy it here >>

"The Coming Wave"

One of Gates' most recent book picks comes from the head of Microsoft AI.

Mustafa Suleyman's "The Coming Wave" explores the opportunities and risks posed by scientific breakthroughs like AI and gene editing.

"If you want to understand the rise of AI, this is the best book to read," Gates wrote of the book.

• Some high-profile CEOs like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk have multimillion-dollar security details.
• Health insurance companies, by contrast, don't appear to spend as much on executive protection.
• The amount public companies allocate toward executive security and private travel varies widely.

The death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson last week has brought a new level of attention to the question of executive protection.

Thompson's shooting outside a hotel in New York also highlights that executives who aren't as high-profile as someone like Elon Musk may not always have bodyguards with them.

That level of monitoring can be expensive, and the amount companies pay for executive security varies widely.

On the high end, Musk and other CEOs including Meta's Mark Zuckerberg, Alphabet's Sundar Pichai, and Salesforce's Marc Benioff are known for having multimillion-dollar security packages.

Others, including JPMorgan Chase's Jamie Dimon, Amazon's Andy Jassy, and Apple's Tim Cook, have more modest protection services worth hundreds of thousands of dollars — amounts that can further increase when factoring in costs associated with the use of private planes, a common CEO perk tied to security considerations.

Health insurance companies, including UnitedHealth Group, don't appear to spend as much on executive protection as some of the Big Tech giants.

However, the health insurance industry isn't an outlier. Companies in other fields, like retail, also have relatively modest security-specific compensation.

Walmart CEO Doug McMillon and McDonald's CEO Chris Kempczinski, for example, appear to have individual security expenses of less than $25,000 for 2023, according to company filings. When including the use of private aircraft, Walmart paid $192,848 for McMillon's personal use of the company jet, while McDonald's paid $319,301 for Kempczinski's usage in 2023.

Company-paid security costs are typically disclosed in annual corporate filings known as proxy statements. The documents include a breakdown of the salary, benefits, bonuses, and other perks to provide a dollar value of top executives' total compensation package, which must be approved by the board and shareholders.

Security services paid for by the company for the benefit of an individual executive are typically included in a category called "Other Compensation" along with perks like personal corporate jet usage, 401(k) matching, or tax preparation services. It's possible that some security costs may not be reported in proxy statements, particularly if they were paid for by the executives themselves and not reimbursed.

UnitedHealth Group's filings don't specify any personal security costs for Thompson last year

It's not clear if Thompson had a security detail with him on the day of his death. Video footage obtained by the New York City Police Department appears to show him walking alone on his way into an "investor day" event in Manhattan.

Although he was CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Thompson was also an executive vice president of UnitedHealth Group, for which he received $21,187 in other compensation in 2023. That amount represented $14,850 in 401(k) matching and $6,337 in health insurance premiums, with no amount indicated for personal security.

The company has yet to release its annual proxy statement outlining 2024 expenses.

Looking further up the corporate ladder, Thompson's boss, UHG CEO Andrew Witty, also did not receive payment for personal security as part of his 2023 compensation package. However, the company did make corporate aircraft available for his use.

"Witty is required for personal security reasons to use corporate aircraft for all business travel and is encouraged to use corporate aircraft for all personal travel," the proxy statement says, adding that Witty did not make personal use of the company plane in 2023.

A UHG spokesperson told BI the company is "partnering with local law enforcement to ensure a safe work environment and reinforce security guidelines and building access policies."

CVS, which owns Aetna, does not disclose the compensation of Aetna's president. However, CVS did provide its former CEO Karen Lynch with $44,148 for "personal protection" in 2023, as well as $243,281 for personal use of the company jet and $106,086 for personal use of a company car. A CVS spokesperson declined to comment.

Cigna CEO David Cordani received $310,437 in "other compensation" in 2023, largely constituted of $178,704 in personal travel on the company aircraft. Roughly $95,000 in other costs were provided for residential security system monitoring and maintenance, as well as expanded personal liability coverage.

Proxy statements for Humana and Elevance (owner of Anthem) did not specify personal security costs, while Kaiser Permanente is a nonprofit and not subject to the same reporting requirements.

Musk-level security can cost millions

Former Secret Service agent Joseph LaSorsa, who now runs the private security firm LaSorsa & Associates, previously told BI that an around-the-clock detail can cost $100,000 a month and isn't always enough to stop a motivated attacker.

At those rates, the annual cost of protection could balloon to $1.2 million — comparable to the base salaries of UnitedHealth's executive officers.

In other words, company-provided personal security can be an expensive proposition, and typically reserved only for a small number of top leaders. Different executives may also have their own personal preference for the level of security they travel with.

"Protection is very much driven on what a executive really wants," said John Orloff, a former US Secret Service agent who now leads security risk consulting at Jensen Hughes.

Orloff told Business Insider that his firm typically works with corporate security departments to develop their executive protection strategies in response to relevant threats.

Musk, the world's wealthiest person, has spoken out about personal security concerns in recent years. He told Tesla shareholders at the annual shareholder meeting that "two homicidal maniacs" had threatened to kill him and things were "getting a little crazy these days."

Filings show Tesla paid a Musk-owned personal security company $2.4 million to protect him in 2023. However, the agreement is not structured as compensation for his services as CEO and is unusual among public companies (Tesla is fighting to reinstate Musk's 2018 compensation package after a Delaware judge ruled against it for the second time).

Musk travels with multiple bodyguards — sometimes as many as 20, according to a recent report. Employees at X, formerly Twitter, reported seeing his security follow him into the bathrooms at the company's headquarters.

While executives at health insurance companies may not be as recognizable as someone like Musk or Zuckerberg, Thompson's death could lead board members and CEOs to review executive protection costs in a different light. The matter could feature more prominently as compensation committees draft proposals for their companies' future annual meetings.

• The downfall of Assad has threatened Russia's military presence in Syria along with its wider strategic objectives.
• Russia's bases in Syria made it a major diplomatic player in the Middle East.
• The bases were also crucial for its activities in Africa.

The fall of Bashar Assad has thrown Russia's military presence in Syria into question. It also poses a threat to Russia's ability to project power throughout the Middle East and beyond.

On Sunday, Syrian rebels, led by the Islamist group Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham, overthrew Syria's longtime autocratic ruler.

It followed a dizzying two-week campaign that caught the world off guard and many are now trying to work out what will come next for the country.

Russia has been a close ally of Syria and has leases on two military bases in the country, giving it a strategic foothold in the Middle East.

"It hits them hard," Edmund Fitton-Brown, a senior advisor to the Counter Extremism Project, said of Russia.

He added: "Syria has been their most reliable Arab ally."

A springboard to power

In 2017, Syria granted Russia a 49-year lease on the Hmeimim air base and the Tartus naval base, in return for military assistance.

Russia has used the bases to project power in the Mediterranean and into Africa, and as a counter to NATO's southern flank.

"These bases are the most important bases outside the direct sphere of Russian influence," Andreas Krieg, a Gulf specialist at the Institute of Middle Eastern Studies at King's College London, told Business Insider.

Ann Marie Dailey, a geopolitical strategist at RAND, told BI that despite its massive landmass, Russia "doesn't have great geography for power projection."

"It doesn't have warm water ports that have direct access to the oceans," she added. "And so having a port in the Mediterranean is incredibly strategically useful."

Hmeimim, meanwhile, gives Russia a refueling base and overflight access throughout the Middle East and on to Africa, she said.

On Sunday, Ukrainian military intelligence said that Russia had pulled two ships from Tartus, and had transferred weapons from Hmeimim.

BI was unable to independently verify the report.

But satellite images captured by Planet Labs PBC show Russian warships that had been seen in Tartus earlier this month were gone as of Monday.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said Russia intended to have serious discussions with future Syrian authorities about access to the bases, but that it is too soon for now.

The potential loss of influence in Syria is not just about state power. The bases have also allowed support for the activities of the Russian paramilitary group Wagner.

"If you look at the Wagner footprint in Africa, you can tell that it's been enabled by the fact that they have that access in Syria to support those operations," said Dailey.

According to the Institute for the Study of War, losing the bases in Syria will "immediately" interrupt Wagner's rotation and resupply efforts.

Russia's ambitions for global leadership

Russia's involvement in Syria is a legacy of the Soviet era when the USSR traditionally maintained strong ties with other socialist states.

Russia propped up the Assad regime for more than a decade, notably sending aid during the 2011 Arab Spring, and troops and weapons to help counter the uprising in 2015.

Russian President Vladimir Putin had many reasons to stick his neck out for Assad.

"By backing Assad, Russia positioned itself as an indispensable player in regional politics, thereby increasing its diplomatic leverage," said Ali Bilgic, a professor in international relations and Middle East politics at the UK's Loughborough University.

But the huge cost of invading Ukraine appears to have forced Russia to choose between the two.

It "really speaks to how stretched thin Russian forces are," according to Dailey.

Putin has based Russia's international stature on the idea it can play a major role in different parts of the world, said Cristian Nitoiu, a Russia-focused lecturer in diplomacy and foreign affairs, also at Loughborough University.

Yet Putin's refusal to help Assad this time "basically shows that Russia was unable to support one of its long-lasting friends," Nitoiu said.

"The events in Syria can be seen as a sort of strategic failure on the part of Russia, and the optics look really bad," he added.

An uncertain future

In a statement on Sunday, Russia's foreign ministry said it was maintaining contact with "all" Syrian opposition groups, adding that while Russia's Syrian bases are on high alert, there's no serious threat to their security at the moment.

Russia has called Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham a terror group — so the fact that they are communicating with rebel groups now "demonstrates the importance of these bases," Dailey said.

HTS is also designated a terror group by the US and the UN.

What the US does regarding events in Syria will also be pivotal to what sort of foothold Russia can maintain, Loughborough University's Bilgic said.

On Saturday, President-elect Donald Trump posted on Truth Social: "THIS IS NOT OUR FIGHT. LET IT PLAY OUT. DO NOT GET INVOLVED!"

Should the US withdraw all involvement, Russia could exploit any ensuing power vacuum. But "this scenario appears improbable," Bilgic said.

In fact, diminishing Russian influence in Syria is a huge strategic draw for the US, he said, adding that there is also a concern that a new Russia-backed government could give room to ISIS, as well as threats to Israeli security.

Russia's presence in Syria has also helped it shape its objectives in energy markets, Bilgic said.

"Economically, the Tartus base played a role in Russia's energy strategy, helping to counter competing projects like the Qatar-Turkey pipeline," he said.

A grim reminder

What has happened in Syria in recent days may lead to some sleepless nights in Russia.

"I think it will rattle some folks in the Kremlin to see just how quickly Russia's military had to withdraw," Dailey said.

Assad's fall may also be a grim reminder for those in power in Russia of the necessity of crushing domestic resistance quickly, she said.

"Anyone in the Kremlin, because they've studied Russian history, knows that an autocratic regime can crumble very quickly."

YYou've just been added to a meeting. It's late afternoon, late in the week, and someone is presenting a deck. Geez, here we go. The presenter reads words that you can also read from a bulleted list on a lightly decorated page projected before you. Next slide. Because you've seen hundreds of PowerPoint presentations since your sixth-grade science-fair days, you instinctively know this one's going to take the full hour. Eyes glaze over, yawns are stifled. Next slide. The presenter attempts to play an embedded video, but the audio doesn't work. "You get the idea" though. Next slide.

Nearly four decades after the launch of PowerPoint, the slide deck remains one of the most dominant forces shaping how we think — and don't think — about our work. From startup pitches to Pentagon procurement timetables, from quarterly board meetings to annual harassment trainings, billions of presentations are given each year in a single rigid, information-squishing format, on PowerPoint or its imitators Keynote, Google Slides, or now Figma Slides. Humanity continues to cram compelling and vital information into single-idea slides, strip these ideas of context, and read them aloud among a flurry of GIFs, charts, and animated wipes and swipes. Rarely does the deck — which by design dictates a one-sided style of conversation — elicit robust questions from or conversation with the audience. We are constantly pitching our bosses, their bosses, investors, and each other via a one-size rhetorical tool that doesn't really fit all.

But some are finally thinking outside the deck. Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Sundar Pichai, and military top brass have been bad-mouthing and even banning slide presentations from meetings, instead favoring memos or even old-fashioned, visual-aid-free, raw-dogged discussion. Rippling, which makes HR and payroll software, has done the impossible: complete a funding round (a $45 million Series A) without a deck. Several startups, including one from Edward Norton — yes, the actor — have launched alternatives to the deck. It appears that even three Academy Award nominations cannot spare one's life from the stultifying ubiquity of decks, and Norton and his two cofounders at Zeck are on a mission to vanquish it.

Is the deck in jeopardy? Are we at last approaching a day when "this meeting could have been an email" lives alongside "this meeting could have gone without a deck"? Next slide.

For most of the 20th century, workplace meetings were typically small and informal discussions with a few colleagues. By the 1980s, the computer revolution was generating loads more information for every business to digest and act on. This meant more and bigger meetings across departments, which meant more presentations, which usually meant slide projectors. But those presentations were clunky, finicky, and laborious to make.

Then, in the mid-'80s, an ailing software startup called Forethought developed a first-of-its-kind graphics program in which computer users could string together a series of slides. Originally called Presenter, it was released in April 1987, as PowerPoint. Microsoft immediately saw its world-changing potential, buying Forethought just four months later for $14 million. For one thousandth of the nearly $14 billion the company has invested in OpenAI, Microsoft acquired a program that remains arguably more consequential to how businesses operate. By 1993, Microsoft was raking in $100 million from PowerPoint sales a year; by 2003, $1 billion. Microsoft estimated that 30 million PowerPoint presentations were being made every day.

Decks have no shortage of zealots, including my former boss. When I worked at BarkBox, Nick Cogan, a vice president of creative, always had us making decks — not just for big retail pitches but for every little task. Product planning, style guide, whatever it was, we'd make a deck. I maybe want him to apologize for all the deck wrangling, but he laughs and doesn't give an inch defending them, which, as a former animator, he loves for their storytelling capabilities. "'Look at this, not us' can be essential when presenting," he says. He describes the perfect presentation as both a "useful crutch" and a "little kids' storybook," where he can walk the great and mighty decision-makers through storytime instead of business time.

Christina Farr, a healthtech director and investor who wrote a book about storytelling in business, agrees, arguing that the deck actually draws its power from its ubiquity. Because people are used to both writing and receiving decks, "people know what the story should sound like," and the expected rhythms and beats of a PowerPoint presentation "are already baked in." But it's not just an emotional expectation, she says — it's also a formal one: "If you're raising money, in 2024, you have to have a deck. Everybody expects you to do it."

True, but there's also been no shortage of deck denigrators. In 2003, the media theorist Edward Tufte published "The Cognitive Style of PowerPoint," which remains one of the most deliciously damning indictments of a software program ever written. Over several thousand words, Tufte flambés PowerPoint, and "slideware" in general, for "making us stupid, degrading the quality and credibility of our communication, turning us into bores, wasting our colleagues' time." Though PowerPoint was developed and even celebrated as a "cure for the presentation jitters," Tufte maligns it as overly oriented toward the presenter, leaving little room for the listener to chime in or even actively listen. Tufte even goes so far as to blame PowerPoint's "poverty of content" and its "foreshortening of evidence and thought" for the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster.

The jeremiad had many admirers, including Jeff Bezos. Inspired by Tufte, the Amazon CEO in June 2004 banned PowerPoint from executive meetings. The book "Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon" describes Bezos as finding slide decks "frustrating, inefficient, error-prone," with a stiff format that "made it difficult to evaluate actual progress." In its place the company developed what's become known as the Amazon Six-Pager: a detailed memo outlining — in narrative prose, not bullet points — the conversations and business problems that have surfaced the need for a meeting. In a deck, information takes a back seat to form and format; the memo, in contrast, forces the presenter to embody a Joan Didion axiom: "I don't know what I think until I write it down." Attendees read the six-pager before the meeting, so everyone can enter the meeting informed and be held accountable for the decisions made out of the discussion.

"I hate the way people use slide presentations instead of thinking," Steve Jobs once opined, adding that "people who know what they're talking about don't need PowerPoint." Even Steve Ballmer, who sits atop literal millions and owns the Los Angeles Clippers in part because of PowerPoint money, maligned decks while he was CEO of Microsoft. "I don't think it's efficient," he said in 2011, adding, "Most meetings nowadays, you send me the materials and I read them in advance. And I can come in and say: 'I've got the following four questions. Please don't present the deck.'" Over the years, many members of the US military have cast aspersions toward what they call "death by PowerPoint."

"The incentive structures for a slide deck are all bad," says Aviv Gilboa, the president of Skylight, a consumer tech company known for its digital picture frames and calendars. To Gilboa, who worked at Amazon for four years, decks aren't just boring, they're antithetical to many ways we think and work. The format of a single slide is inherently low-information: When you're pitching, you're persuading, and so you can fit only one idea per slide, often forcing you to leave some good ideas behind.

Gilboa says decks also help presenters feel good without forcing them to engage with their decisions. Decks help reinforce this perception of assurance, what Gilboa calls "the smoke and mirrors of how we got to this choice." As I sat at BarkBox making decks every which way for every little business problem, I felt like a purveyor of both smoke and mirrors, no matter what my boss said about storytelling.

Many of our workplace problems have evident solutions made possible by software — for example, Google Docs, a miracle program that replaced back-and-forth documents and version control with fluid, collaborative workflow. But like many in the PowerPoint mines, I'm not sure what alternative could possibly replace slides at scale.

Zeck was born in 2022 out of its cofounders' rage at decks, especially in board meetings. "At our prior companies, the shortest deck we ever sent was 134 pages," Zeck's cofounder Robert Wolfe tells me, adding that "there was nothing more stressful" about preparing for those meetings. He says that at CrowdRise, the company he ran with his brother Jeffrey and Edward Norton, they'd stop all other work for 100 hours before every board meeting in order to write and build the quarterly decks they hated enough to found Zeck. In a nod to Norton, Wolfe integrated a "Fight Club" reference into the origin story on Zeck's website: "The meeting I just sat through was like the scene in Fight Club where you punch yourself in the face over and over."

To Wolfe, the deck model "literally creates antagonism" — everyone becomes an editor with a red pen, the deck presenting endless entry points for criticism. In the military or an everyday office, grunts and junior designers hate working on PowerPoints, tweaking pixels and making rounds of edits that drive everyone crazy, because in PowerPoint you're often not working on the idea, but only on the presentation of the idea.

Zeck proposes that the solution to the deck is a collaborative website. A Zeck site feels a bit like a Notion site but with tweaks that work well for the boardroom — it gives everyone edit access, is encrypted, can be personalized, and offers links so that your chief financial officer or finance team can access full reports and charts and important information. It is a revelation to not have that information simplified in a slide in a meeting where everyone has to sit through everything. And in Zeck's pitch I find a great clarity equaled so far only by Tufte himself: When we remove the awful slide deck, once again "the meeting can be a meeting." So far, Zeck counts among its clients Hard Rock Hotel & Casino, furniture maker Floyd, and the rocket startup Phantom Space Corporation.

While Zeck is unlikely to supplant PowerPoint any time soon, Wolfe thinks people are finally rebelling against the idea "that you only have Office and all the tools that go with it, or a Google Drive and all the tools that go with it." He makes a brazen prediction: "I would be shocked if in 18 months or five years people are still using flat slides for meetings that should be collaborative."

We aren't yet letting go of decks in business, but we've let them hop the fence into our wider culture, both celebrating and undermining their repressive formality and ubiquity. The post-irony generations are throwing "PowerPoint parties," and some singles, sick of dating apps, are using PowerPoint to make their cases as mates. A 2021 episode of the Bravo reality show "Summer House" featured a subplot built around a romantic gesture delivered via PowerPoint. For some, slides may be a love language. There are even famous decks now, like this 300-pager in which a hedge-fund excoriated Olive Garden's business practices, or, my favorite, Jennifer Egan's PowerPoint chapter from her 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, "A Visit from the Goon Squad."

Egan tells me she got a crash course in the program from her business-world sister, who "thinks in PowerPoint." The formal experiment of a PowerPoint chapter was exciting, though the "cold, corporate vibe" was perhaps incompatible with real, genuine emotion and the stuff contained in great novels. She suggests this tension gives the finished chapter — "Great Rock and Roll Pauses," the 12-year-old protagonist Alison Blake's account of her autistic brother's favorite pauses in classic rock songs interspersed with descriptions of their mom and dad coming and going, fighting and reflecting — its power. The chapter delivers earnest emotion without being schlocky, and is brave and hilarious without being corny. Egan says she isn't typically this type of writer, but the PowerPoint format gave her the ability to tell "this very sweet story in a cold holder."

Perhaps the PowerPoint parties and Egan have it right and we should let PowerPoint do what it does best: tell stories. For Egan, a deck arguably won a Pulitzer. For NASA, a deck arguably killed astronauts. In the big middle between those outcomes, we're still deciding whether a story is always what's necessary — and what to do about decks.

Matt Alston's writing has appeared in Wired, Rolling Stone, Playboy, and Believer. He trained as a civil engineer, and now works as a copywriter in tech. He lives in Maine with his wife and daughter.