• Amanda C. Riley is serving prison time for faking cancer and scamming supporters out of thousands of dollars.
• A 2023 podcast and a new docuseries cover her story, which also mentions her husband, Cory.
• Cory and Amanda have two sons together. Here's where Cory is today.

The story of Amanda C. Riley, a Christian woman in California who used her now-archived blog, "Lymphoma Can Suck It," to chronicle her experience after supposedly being diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma was compelling from the start: A young woman blogging about having cancer in order to raise awareness and funds to help pay for her aggressive treatment was actually lying the whole time, leaching attention and more than $100,000 from her friends, family, and even strangers.

It's the reason the "Scamanda" podcast quickly became a megahit upon its 2023 release, and why a new ABC docuseries is telling the story for a second time, delving deeper into how Riley pulled off her scheme and how she was eventually caught.

Amanda pleaded guilty to wire fraud charges in October 2021, and was sentenced to five years in federal prison in May 2022. She was also ordered to pay $105,513 in restitution to her victims. She's currently incarcerated at FMC Carswell, a federal prison in Ft. Worth, Texas, and is scheduled for release on October 15, 2026.

As of January 2025, no one else has been charged with crimes related to their involvement in Amanda's scheme. However, according to the "Scamanda" podcast and docuseries, family members helped her set up websites to acquire donations and contributed posts to her blog. Whether any of them knew Amanda did not actually have cancer or if they truly believed she was ill is unclear.

While Amanda's fake cancer scheme was in full force, her husband Cory Riley was simultaneously battling his ex-wife Aletta Riley in court for custody of their daughter, Jessa. Per the podcast, he cited his wife's supposed diagnosis and medical expenses to try and win custody of Jessa and get his child support payments lowered.

Here's everything we know about Cory Riley's life today.

Where is Amanda C. Riley's husband Cory Riley today?

Cory and Amanda first met when Amanda was a 17-year-old cheerleading coach hired to instruct one of Cory's then-wife Aletta's daughters — one of whom actually had cancer — how to dance. Per the podcast, Cory was about 29 years old at the time.

Cory and Aletta eventually divorced, and he married Amanda a few years later. The couple had two sons together, Carter and Connor, whom Amanda would proclaim were "miracles," since she claimed she shouldn't have been able to deliver a healthy baby while undergoing cancer treatment.

Though the family lived in the Bay Area outside of San Jose for most of the time Amanda was writing her cancer blog, they moved to Texas after Amanda lost her job as principal at Pacific Point Christian School in Gilroy, California.

"Scamanda" podcast host Charlie Webster told Glamour in a 2023 interview that Cory was "looking after his two kids in Texas" where Amanda was serving her sentence.

According to a divorce petition obtained by Today.com, Cory filed for divorce in January 2024. The filing indicated he was still living in Texas at that time.

• The US Army Black Hawk that collided with an American Airlines flight was training on a familiar flight path.
• The 12th Aviation Battalion frequently navigates Washington DC airspace for VIP transport.
• Pilots were flying with night vision goggles and are trained to deal with those challenges.

The US Army crew of a UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter that fatally collided with an American Airlines passenger jet on Wednesday was on a routine training flight on a well-known flight path at the time of the incident, an Army official said Thursday.

Jonathan Koziol, a retired Army chief warrant officer aviator with nearly three decades of military flight experience, said during a media roundtable this flight would have likely been deemed "low risk," not medium or high risk.

Such designations are required elements of pre-flight risk assessments and briefings to military mission approval authorities and take into account variables like weather, mission type, and potential hazards. Koziol, the Headquarters Department of the Army Aviation Directorate Chief of Staff, was not involved in flight operation or oversight.

Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said earlier in the day that the flight was "routine" and conducted along a "standard" corridor. The flight was along Route 4, a commonly used flight path, and "should not have been a problem," Koziol said.

Crews from the Army's 12th Aviation Battalion, based in Ft. Belvoir, Virginia, are well acquainted with Washington, DC and the surrounding areas, said Koziol. Much of this unit's mission includes ferrying government and military VIPs throughout the National Capital Region (NCR) and being ready to move officials during crises.

Speaking of the Black Hawk's flight path, Koziol said "this is a relatively easy corridor to fly because you're flying down the center of the river."

He said that the dark river flight path, with urban lights on either side to act as informal guardrails, makes the task simple for pilots. The battalion's Black Hawk was also equipped with an in-flight map, meaning the pilots could track their position throughout the flight.

"You have the darkness of the river, and you have the lights on either side of you and obviously the rotating beacon on Reagan National to point out the airfield and all the traffic on it for them to know exactly where they're at," he said.

There are several routes for helicopters in the NCR which government aircraft traverse daily and includes airspace that is off-limits to non-approved aircraft, including areas near the Pentagon, White House, National Mall, and Naval Observatory.

Each flight requires coordination with surrounding air traffic control, including the Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, which assigns each flight a four-digit tracking number to chart its movements. Within the aviation unit, flights are meticulously planned for and managed, Koziol said.

Koziol said the Black Hawk pilots were training with night vision goggles, which can cut down a wearer's peripheral vision and impact depth perception. Soldiers train regularly with these capabilities to limit the impact.

"They are helpful at night, obviously, and in an urban environment, they're still useful," Koziol said. City lights can make seeing with night vision more difficult, but flying over the river where the Black Hawk was shouldn't have posed any problems with light, he said.

All three crew members, two pilots and a crew chief, were experienced aviators, he said. Both pilots had at least 1500 combined flight hours between them. One pilot served as the flight commander and instructor, overseeing an annual training requirement for the second pilot, who held 500 hours and had previously served as a flight commander.

The cause of Wednesday's deadly crash, in which there were no survivors, is unknown and under investigation.

• There have been more news stories of airline issues and crashes in the past year.
• Distressing news about flying can heighten aerophobia, or fear of flying.
• Two therapists shared tips on how to manage anxiety around flying.

For anyone fearful of flying, the recent news cycle hasn't helped. Last night, a military helicopter collided with an American Airlines passenger jet in DC, killing all 64 people aboard both flights.

Over the past year, news stories have emerged of commercial planes crashing, losing doors mid-flight, or flying through increased turbulence.

People with existing aerophobia might feel vindicated in their fears. "Now they're going to say, 'I was right all along,'" Tom Bunn, a retired airline captain and licensed therapist specializing in aviation phobias, told Business Insider.

Prerna Menon, a New York City therapist who's seen this issue come up a lot in her practice, said her clients' symptoms worsen when they consume more news around crashes.

Bunn and Menon shared a few tips to overcome flying phobias, whether you feel increased discomfort when you land or avoid flying as much as possible.

Where you sit can help you feel a sense of control

For many fearful fliers, the root issue is feeling a lack of control.

Bunn gave an example of a client — an airline captain — who one day felt anxious sitting in an economy middle seat. "If he was in the cockpit, he wouldn't have any trouble because he's in control," Bunn said.

Takeoff, landing, and bad turbulence can exacerbate that feeling of helplessness, Menon said. The tricky thing is finding a way to process your feelings in the moment. "Now that fight-or-flight response has been activated, and you're confined to a seat, you're not really able to expel that anxiety."

For anxious passengers, you can choose a seat closer to the front or over the wing, where you can see outside.

While some experts say it doesn't make much difference, one flight anxiety coach told Condé Nast Traveler that he recommends sitting in the center of the plane. "Factually speaking, the point of balance is over the wings or maybe slightly forward. This is considered the 'best place' by many," Paul Tizzard, a coach with LoveFly, told the outlet.

Don't try to fly your way out of a phobia

For many phobias, treatment involves some form of gradual exposure therapy. Aerophobia is different because "either you're flying or you're not," Bunn said.

However, you don't want to force yourself to go on a bunch of flights, Bunn said. "Once you get sensitized to not being in control and able to escape, you're only going to make it worse."

Instead, he said it's best to start as small as possible, breaking down each part of the flight into bite-sized pieces. Take-off, for example, isn't just one event. "The engines rev up, and when they do, the pitch goes higher," he said.

He recommends having someone you feel safe around, like a partner or friend, hold neutral photographs of an airplane terminal, a plane in flight, and a plane landing to change your associations with the images. You can also picture them holding up the photographs while looking you in the eye, which can have a calming effect.

Menon also said exposure to more neutral images of planes, especially in contrast to distressing videos on social media, can help. If your fear of flying is severe, she recommended taking small steps like going with a loved one to an airport.

Engage your senses when you're in the air

Once you're on a flight, your options for calming down are more limited. Some techniques involve engaging your physical senses to pull away from ruminating.

Bunn suggested using the 54321 grounding exercise, in which you identify five things you can see, four things you can touch, three things you can hear, two things you can smell, and one thing you can taste. (Doing it in that order makes it harder for your brain to blow through the steps quickly, he said.)

If you anticipate being nervous on a flight, Menon said you can bring a tactile activity with you, such as crocheting, drawing, or playing with a fidget toy. "Engaging multiple senses allows us to anchor our minds and bodies into the present moment," she said.

Try the 4-7-8 breathing trick

It sounds simple, but breathing exercises work to quell your fears. Mindful breathing "slows down our heart rate and triggers the relaxation response," Menon said.

Menon recommended the 4-7-8 breathing pattern, in which you inhale for four seconds, hold for seven, and exhale for eight.

Bunn agreed. He said exhaling for longer than you inhale is his trick for calming the nervous system. He added that it may not be a perfect cure-all, especially in times of turbulence.

"When the plane drops, everybody's going to get some stress hormones released, some more than others," he said.

To get the most out of this trick, Menon said it's best to do it a few times prior to boarding the aircraft, as well as when you just sat down.

Look at other stressors in your life

If you suddenly developed aerophobia as an adult, Bunn said it could help to look at other stressors in your life, particularly ones that leave you feeling powerless.

Often, "straws have been put on the camel's back for years," he said, making you less tolerant of situations where you feel trapped — like being on a plane.

• Kash Patel, Trump's nominee to be FBI Director, is worth more than $5.9 million.
• He made more than $2.6 million last year from consulting, paid speeches, and books.
• His clients included Truth Social, one of Trump's PACs, and the Embassy of Qatar.

Kash Patel, President Donald Trump's nominee to be the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, made more than $2.6 million last year.

According to a financial disclosure obtained by Business Insider ahead of its public release, Patel's income came from a mixture of consulting work, paid speeches, media appearances, and the proceeds of several books.

His total net worth is more than $5.9 million, according to a document filed with the Senate Judiciary Committee. All of Trump's nominees are required to file public final disclosure reports as they are considered by the Senate.

The bulk of Patel's income, more than $2.1 million, came from consulting work. Among his clients was Trump Media and Technology Corp, the company that runs Truth Social. According to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Patel's annual compensation was $120,000, though his contract ended in March 2024.

Pam Bondi, Trump's nominee for attorney general, has also been financially tied up with Truth Social, holding more than $3.9 million in stock in the company as of December.

Patel also listed Save America, Trump's leadership PAC, as a client, along with the Embassy of Qatar and several other organizations.

He earned $306,000 last year from a series of paid speeches and media appearances, including $99,000 for working as a contributor for the Epoch Times and $20,000 for a May 2024 interview on "Our Watch With Tim Thompson."

Writing books also proved to be lucrative for Patel. He earned between $100,000 and $1 million in royalties for his 2023 book, "Government Gangsters," and between $45,000 and $150,000 for his "The Plot Against the King" children's book series.

He also owns Elite Depot, a "fashion management company" based in the Cayman Islands worth between $1 million and $5 million. A spokesperson for Patel did not immediately return a request for comment regarding the organization's purpose.

Patel's assets also include up to $100,000 in Bitcoin, up to $250,000 in NVIDIA stock, and up to $100,00 in Palantir stock. In 2024, he earned $8,000 in director's fees from VK Integrated Systems, a weapons company.

Patel is among Trump's most controversial nominees, owing to questions about his conduct during Trump's first term, his promotion of conspiracy theories, and his extreme rhetoric.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer identified Patel this week as a nominee that Democrats felt they may have a shot at defeating. His first confirmation hearing took place on Thursday.

Read Patel's full financial disclosure below:

• For seven years, blogger Amanda C. Riley told people she had Hodgkin's lymphoma, but she was lying.
• The mom of two swindled over $100,000 from 349 donors.
• A 2023 podcast and a new docuseries explore "Scamanda" and the fallout of Riley's fake cancer scheme.

In 2012, California-based Christian blogger and mother of two Amanda Christine Riley started "Lymphoma Can Suck It," a since-archived blog documenting her journey after being diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma in her late 20s. She used her blog and social media to publicize her journey with the aggressive form of cancer, winning over sympathy from friends, strangers, and even celebrities who gave her money for her medical treatments.

The only problem? Riley didn't have cancer.

Riley, now 39, never had any cancer treatments because she never had the disease. And according to a criminal complaint filed by now-retired Internal Revenue Service (IRS) special agent Arlette Lee in July 2020, she had used the ruse of the illness to bilk people out of over a total of $100,000.

Riley was the subject of Charlie Webster's hit 2023 podcast "Scamanda," which exposed the blogger's web of lies with the help of Riley's victims, journalists, and law enforcement who worked the case. Now, a new four-part ABC news docuseries of the same name premiering on January 30 delves further into how Riley pulled off her scheme and what ultimately gave her away.

According to Lee's complaint, the former teacher and principal convinced friends, coworkers, a megachurch, and complete strangers (including singer LeAnn Rimes) to donate over $100,000 to her and her family to help cover the cost of her non-existent cancer treatments and travel for experiences she said she wanted to have before she died.

Riley shared on her blog multiple times that she was near death. But each time, she would experience a "terminal miracle" that would inexplicably put her cancer into remission, taking her followers on an emotionally manipulative ride. At one point, Riley even claimed that her pregnancy had "reversed the cancer." (It would always eventually return.)

According to the Department of Justice, Riley collected at least 349 donations over the eight years she perpetrated the fraud. They added up to more than $105,000.

So where is Riley today? The end of her story isn't a miracle, but the consequences she faced are now a part of legal history.

Amanda C. Riley faced repercussions for her fraud — and made legal history

The case wouldn't have happened without the work of investigative producer Nancy Moscatiello, who began an initial investigation into Riley after receiving an anonymous tip via email that she should look into the blogger in the summer of 2015.

Riley quickly went on the offensive, and attempted to sue Moscatiello for civil harassment (the judge threw out the suit).

Moscatiello's own sister had died of cancer, and she dug in, calling the hospitals and clinics Riley claimed to have been treated at, and closely examining the photos she posted on her blog. She took her findings to Jose Martinez, a now-retired San Jose-based financial crimes detective. Martinez contacted a facility where Riley claimed to be treated; an employee confirmed to him that Riley was not and had never been a patient there.

Martinez, realizing his scope was limited to San Jose, eventually passed the case on to the IRS, which had federal jurisdiction. IRS special agent Lee took the case over the line, subpoenaing every facility that Riley mentioned in her blog posts to establish that Riley didn't have cancer.

Even as she was being actively investigated — investigators raided her house in 2016 — Riley continued blogging and maintaining her claim she was being treated for cancer. She also took a job as a principal at Pacific Point, a Christian elementary school, and worked there for about three years, resigning just before federal authorities charged her with wire fraud.

Federal charges were eventually brought against Riley in July 2020, related to financial crimes associated with "a scheme to solicit donations from individuals to help her pay for cancer treatments she never needed nor received," the DOJ said.

During the trial, it was revealed just how far Riley went to perpetrate the fraud, including shaving her head to appear as though she was receiving chemotherapy, falsifying medical records, forging physicians' documents, and creating a library of photos depicting her fake cancer journey.

Riley pleaded guilty to wire fraud in October 2021, admitting in the written plea agreement that she knew she did not have Hodgkin's lymphoma and had never been diagnosed or treated with any type of cancer, and that she'd knowingly deceived people to convince them to give her money.

She was ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $105,513 and sentenced to 60 months in prison in May 2022.

The case made IRS history for being the first financial conviction of someone who faked cancer for fundraising purposes, according to the "Scamanda" podcast.

Riley is incarcerated at FMC Carswell, a federal prison in Ft. Worth, Texas, that houses prisoners at all security levels and specializes in prisoners with mental and physical health needs.

In 2024, Riley's attorney filed a motion for compassionate release, asking for a reduced sentence because of new medical issues Riley claimed to have. The judge denied the motion after the government opposed it, "pointing to evidence that Defendant is once again feigning illness."

Her scheduled release date is October 15, 2026, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

"Scamanda" premieres January 30 at 9 p.m. ET on ABC, airing weekly. Episodes will be available to stream the next day on Hulu.

• An American Airlines flight collided with a helicopter, raising questions about air traffic control.
• Sen. Tammy Duckworth, a former Black Hawk pilot, said military and civilian pilots usually do not speak directly to each other.
• The FAA faces a shortage of controllers, impacting high-traffic areas like Washington DC.

The crash of an American Airlines flight in Washington, DC, has renewed anxiety about air-traffic control staffing and procedures at US airports, especially in crowded airspaces.

As investigators began to piece together how a military helicopter collided with the regional jet, questions swirled about communication between the pilots and Reagan National Airport's control tower.

Sen. Tammy Duckworth, an ex-Army Black Hawk helicopter pilot, told reporters that military aircraft usually do not talk directly to commercial pilots, as ATC is the responsible intermediary.

"Everybody's listening on the same frequency," she said, adding that the American flight that crashed would have been aware of the Black Hawk helicopter in the skies. "You are listening to instructions from ATC. ATC is telling you what to do."

Duckworth said an FAA briefing involving ATC tapes revealed the helicopter pilots were told about the passenger plane, and the crew confirmed "at least twice" that they had the jet in sight before the crash.

She added that the American flight was cleared to land and would have had the "right of way" and that the Black Hawk was told to pass behind. The flight was in visual flight conditions, meaning the helicopter would be visually searching for the plane.

"They would be looking up to try to find this aircraft, pick it out of the sky as it's coming in for a landing," she said.

According to the Federal Aviation Administration, some military and civil aircraft, if equipped, can talk to each other using specific emergency frequencies. This is usually reserved for distress situations where immediate communication is necessary. It's unclear if the Black Hawk was equipped.

"[The Black Hawk's] flight path should have been hugging the east bank of the Potomac River, so they should not have been within the flight path of that landing aircraft," she said. "Did one of the aircraft stray away latitude, sideways in the airspace from the route that they were supposed to be on?"

National Transportation Safety Board member Todd Inman said the DC area is a unique environment for helicopters and that the Black Hawk was transitioning zones at the time of the crash. ATC is one of the "human factors" the agency will examine as part of its investigation, he said.

Air traffic control is a complex system with many moving parts and no room for errors

The national air traffic system in the US is immense in both size and complexity, 14,000 air traffic controllers handle upwards of 45,000 flights a day across 29 million miles of airspace.

It's an intricate network that includes hundreds of regional and area control centers, each responsible for a specific piece of airspace.

A pilot flying from San Francisco to Washington, DC, for example, could interact with more than 20 different controllers during the flight.

The job is infamous for its high stress and heavy workload, which can involve managing upwards of a dozen flights at a time.

These stressors are amplified for airports like Ronald Reagan National. The airport has strict flight paths and altitude restrictions. It handles more than 25 million passengers a year and is located in highly trafficked and highly controlled airspace, as it is near the White House, Pentagon, and other government buildings.

The airport has seen multiple near misses recently, including a Southwest Airlines flight that was instructed to cross the same runway on which a JetBlue plane was starting its take-off.

A month later, an American Airlines flight was cleared for takeoff at the same time another plane was given the go-ahead to land on an intersecting runway.

Controllers working the airspace in and around Reagan National also have to handle an extraordinary amount of private and military aircraft that operate in the area.

The situation is exacerbated by a shortage of around 3,000 air traffic controllers, which the FAA has worked to address with plans to hire 1,800 controllers in 2024 and 2,000 this year.

• Mark Zuckerberg addressed several recent policy changes in a company all-hands meeting on Thursday.
• Zuckerberg admitted that the company was slow to respond to TikTok's rapid growth.
• The CEO also told employees to "buckle up" for an "intense" year ahead.

Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg acknowledged the company was slow to respond to TikTok's meteoric rise because executives didn't view it as truly social, offering a rare window into how the tech giant missed one of social media's biggest shifts in recent years.

"When I look back on TikTok, I think part of the reason why we were slow to it is because we didn't think TikTok was social," Zuckerberg said in a recording of an all-hands meeting obtained by Business Insider. "We looked at it and we thought, 'Oh, this is like, a little more like YouTube.'"

The admission came in response to an employee's question about whether Meta's current focus on artificial intelligence might cause the company to miss the next major social media trend, as it did with TikTok.

Meta did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Business Insider.

Zuckerberg explained at the meeting that Meta's traditional view of social interaction — centered around friends posting content and commenting — caused the company to initially misread TikTok's appeal. The company failed to recognize how users were sharing TikTok content through private messages, which has become a crucial form of social interaction across Meta's platforms.

"Because we were too dismissive up front, it wasn't just about people commenting in the feed. It was about people seeing stuff in their feed and then sharing it into message threads," Zuckerberg said, referring to the company's instant messaging platforms WhatsApp, Messenger, and direct messaging in Instagram, where "the majority of social interaction is happening."

Zuckerberg also addressed TikTok's uncertain future in the US. President Trump signed an executive order on January 20 that gave TikTok 75 more days to operate in the US, as owner ByteDance will either have to divest from TikTok or it will be banned in the US.

"We don't have control of what's going to happen to Tiktok," Zuckerberg said. "We have a lot of competitors, but they're an important one. So, who's gonna own Tiktok at the end of the year? What's gonna happen? I mean, that's a pretty big deal, something that's a card that we get to turn over."

Looking ahead, Zuckerberg emphasized that the company needs to avoid taking "too narrow of a view" of social interaction as it navigates the emergence of AI. He outlined a vision for AI-powered features in Facebook and Instagram feeds, including interactive AI agents that users can converse with and more immersive content experiences.

"I think the next trend here is there're going to be things that either AI can produce, that we can just put in there... I think this year we're gonna have stuff where it's like, okay, you have an AI agent, and you can just start talking to it," Zuckerberg said.

The Meta chief also pushed back against concerns that the company's AI investments might detract from its core social media business, noting that as a large company, Meta needs to be able to "walk and chew gum at the same time."

"If we can't build Facebook and [the] next platform at the same time, then, like, eventually game over," he said.

Do you work at Meta? Contact this reporter from a nonwork email and device at [email protected] or [email protected]. You can also reach him securely via Signal at +1408-905-9124. Your identity will be protected.

• Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg addressed Chinese AI startup DeepSeek's latest model in an all-hands.
• The Meta chief praised its "novel infrastructure optimization advances" in a recording seen by BI.
• Zuckerberg also said it would "benefit" Meta as it can implement some of DeepSeek's methods.

Though DeepSeek may have caused panic among tech investors this week, Meta executives told staff on Thursday that the Chinese startup's breakthrough could ultimately benefit Meta's AI ambitions in the long run.

In a Q&A during a Thursday company all-hands, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg was asked for his thoughts on DeepSeek and how Meta should respond or pivot its infrastructure spend to set itself up for success, according to a recording reviewed by Business Insider.

Zuckerberg responded that he doesn't think it changes the company's infrastructure spend.

"DeepSeek had a few pretty novel infrastructure optimization advances, which, fortunately, they published them, so we can not only observe what they did, but we can read about it and implement it, so that'll benefit us," Zuckerberg said.

Zuckerberg also said that it's "always interesting when there's someone who does something better than you" and that it motivates him to "make sure we're on it."

Last week, Zuckerberg announced in social media posts on Meta platforms that the company will spend $60 billion to $65 billion in additional capital investment for the year and said 2025 will be a "defining year for AI."

Nvidia, which builds AI chips, plunged in value this week amid a $1 trillion tech sell-off in the markets over fears that DeepSeek had leapfrogged US AI labs, as the Chinese startup said its R1 model rivaled OpenAI's o1 across several benchmarks and that it was built for a fraction of the cost and compute power.

DeepSeek's claims have caused investors to question Big Tech firms' spending on AI infrastructure, and shares plummetted. By Wednesday, tech stocks had partially recovered.

Meta CFO Susan Li told staff on Thursday that Meta was "seen as more insulated" from DeepSeek's market impact than other companies because it didn't rely on selling its own open-source AI model, Llama, to generate revenue.

"Does it mean that over the longer run, Meta will have to spend less on infrastructure investment or get more for their existing their existing investment?" Li said. "That's definitely sort of what I've heard so far in a few calls since the earnings call yesterday with our analysts and our investors in terms of parsing where reactions are."

Meta declined to comment.

Do you work at Meta? Contact BI reporters from a nonwork email and device at [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected]. You can also reach them via Signal at jyotimann.11, hughlangley.01, and +1408-905-9124.

• Microsoft has started performance-based job cuts, according to termination letters seen by BI.
• The letters state benefits stop immediately. Ex-employees also say they won't receive severance.
• As BI reported earlier this month, Microsoft is taking a stronger stance on performance management.

Microsoft has started performance-based job cuts, according to termination letters viewed by Business Insider.

Employees losing their jobs will see healthcare benefits end immediately, the letters state. In three specific cases, employees were told by Microsoft they're not getting severance, according to people familiar with the situation. These people asked not to be identified discussing sensitive topics.

"The reason(s) for the termination of your employment include your job performance has not met minimum performance standards and expectations for your position," the letters viewed by BI state. "You are relieved of all job duties effective immediately and your access to Microsoft systems, accounts, and buildings will be removed effective today. You are not to perform any further work on behalf of Microsoft."

The letters do not mention severance, but note that medical, prescription, and dental benefits end on the last day of employment. The letters also say that Microsoft will consider past performance and termination if the person applies for other jobs at the company in the future.

As BI reported earlier this month, Microsoft is taking a stronger stance on performance management like its competitors and managers at the company have spent the past few months evaluating employees all the way up to level 80, one of its highest levels. A company spokesperson declined to comment on Thursday.

A Microsoft spokesperson previously confirmed the job cuts, stating that when people leave for performance reasons, Microsoft often backfills the roles, so there may be little change to the company's overall headcount. At the end of June, Microsoft had roughly 228,000 full-time employees.

"At Microsoft we focus on high performance talent," the spokesperson said. "We are always working on helping people learn and grow. When people are not performing, we take the appropriate action."

Microsoft also this month started cutting jobs across organizations including Security, Experiences and Devices, sales, and gaming, according to two people familiar with the matter. At the time, a spokesperson said those layoffs were separate from the performance-based cuts.

Read an excerpt from Microsoft's performance-based termination letters:

"The reason(s) for the termination of your employment include your job performance has not met minimum performance standards and expectations for your position. You are relieved of all job duties effective immediately and your access to Microsoft systems, accounts, and buildings will be removed effective today. You are not to perform any further work on behalf of Microsoft.

Note: If you apply for employment at Microsoft in the future, your past performance and basis of termination will be considered.

You must immediately return your Microsoft cardkey, corporate American Express card, phone card, and any other Microsoft property, including but not limited to hardware, software, email files, source code, customer contact information, financial data, status reports, or any other proprietary or confidential data or trade secret information that you have in your possession to me.

You are bound by the terms of your Microsoft Employee Agreement to return such materials and to protect Microsoft confidential information after termination of your employment. If any such materials are stored on any personal device (including, without limitation, computers, mobile phones, tablets, storage devices) you are required to permanently delete them."

Are you a Microsoft employee, or do you have insight to share? Contact the reporter Ashley Stewart via the encrypted messaging app Signal (+1-425-344-8242) or email ([email protected]). Use a nonwork device.

• Tarek El Moussa and Heather Rae El Moussa tied the knot in October 2021.
• They welcomed their first child together in January 2023.
• The El Moussas are starring in "The Flip Off" alongside Tarek's ex, Christina Haack.

Heather Rae El Moussa and Tarek El Moussa have been inseparable since they met on a boat in July 2019.

Nearly six years later, Tarek, 43, and Heather, 37, are married, have welcomed their first child, and now star in two HGTV series together.

Here's a timeline of their relationship, from their whirlwind meeting to new real-estate projects.

January 2018: Tarek El Moussa was single for the first time in nearly a decade.

Tarek El Moussa married Christina Haack in 2009. They starred in HGTV's "Flip or Flop" and have two children, Taylor, 14, and Brayden, 9.

The couple separated in 2016, seven months after police were called to their house because of "a call of a possibly suicidal male with a gun," TMZ reported at the time. Tarek was seen running from his home with a firearm, which he dropped after police told him from a helicopter to release it, TMZ reported.

"Like many couples, we have had challenges in our marriage," Tarek and Haack said in a statement to People on the matter. "We had an unfortunate misunderstanding about six months ago, and the police were called to our house in an abundance of caution. There was no violence, and no charges were filed."

Tarek addressed the incident in his 2024 book "Flip Your Life," saying he decided to go on a walk after a fight with Haack and was carrying the gun to protect himself from wildlife.

In a February 2024 conversation with Business Insider, he also described his divorce from Haack as "the most difficult period" of his life, particularly because of the media attention their separation received.

"I don't know what it was about me and Christina, but we got so much press for years, and it just wouldn't slow down," he said. "It wouldn't go away."

Tarek and Haack's divorce was finalized in January 2018, and he went on to star in "Flipping 101" solo. "Flip or Flop" ended in 2022.

July 4, 2019: Tarek and Heather met on a boat.

As the couple shared on the "Not Skinny Not Fat" podcast, Tarek and Heather first connected when he slid into Heather's Instagram DMs a few months before she started filming Netflix's "Selling Sunset." He asked her out, but she said no because she had a boyfriend at the time.

On July 4, 2019, Tarek and Heather, who was then single, were cruising on separate boats off the coast of Newport Beach, California, for the holiday, according to People.

When their boats were docked near each other, Heather came onto Tarek's boat to speak to a mutual friend. Sparks flew, and Tarek asked Heather on a date again. This time, she said yes.

July 28, 2019: The pair were first spotted in public together.

TMZ captured photos of Heather and Tarek kissing in Redondo Beach, California. 

August 8, 2019: Heather and Tarek confirmed their relationship on Instagram.

The pair announced their relationship with matching Instagram photos. 

"It's official," Tarek captioned his post. "After more than 3 years on my own I'm so PROUD to say that this beautiful, sweet and talented young lady is my girlfriend."

"I'll be honest and say I never thought I would meet someone special in my life after the last three years," he went on to write. "Then...out of the blue @heatherraeyoung walked into my life."

Heather said she was "so proud to call" Tarek her boyfriend in her post.

"This incredible man @therealtarekelmoussa came into my life at the perfect time and I haven't stopped smiling since," she wrote. "I am so proud to call him my boyfriend, I just look at him in awe at what an amazing, talented and kind human he is."

August 8, 2019: Tarek revealed he had introduced Heather to his children.

On the same day that they announced their relationship, Tarek and Heather did an interview with Entertainment Tonight.

In the interview, Tarek shared that he introduced Heather to his family, including his two children, the night before.

"I introduced her to my kids last night for the first time," he said in the interview. "My mom, my dad, my mom's husband, my sister. So, we're doing it! Very excited."

Tarek also said in the interview that Heather was everything he didn't know he had been missing.

"I just went through some pretty traumatic things in my life and honestly I was very happy being comfortable on my own and I didn't realize what I was missing until I found what I was missing," he told Entertainment Tonight at the time. "I was sad for a very long time; I was alone for a very long time, and I feel like she's really brought me back to life, which is very, very fun to say."

August 21, 2019: Heather met Tarek's TV crew in honor of this birthday.

The crew members Tarek works with on HGTV surprised him with a birthday cake and rendition of "Happy Birthday" to celebrate his 38th birthday, as he documented in an Instagram post.

Heather was with him during the surprise, and Tarek introduced her to the crew as his "birthday present" after saying it was the "best birthday ever."

September 5, 2019: Tarek shared that he introduced Heather to his ex-wife.

The "Flipping 101" star revealed that Heather and Haack had already met during an appearance on "GMA3."

As he told hosts Michael Strahan, Keke Palmer, and Sara Haines, Haack and Heather met when he and Heather went to pick up his kids. He only gave both women five minutes' notice that they would be meeting.

"I was like, 'Oh, I'm coming over to see the kids. By the way, my girlfriend is coming. See you in five!'" Tarek said of what he told Haack.

"I looked at Heather, and I was like, 'Are you ready?' And she was like, 'Ready for what?' I was like, 'Well, we're going to go see the kids, and my ex-wife is there,'" he said.

Tarek added that he and Haack had not formally discussed his new relationship before the two women met, but they "got along great."

"They both eat that healthy, hippie food," he joked. "They do that weird hiking stuff."

November and December 2019: They spent their first holiday season together.

Heather and Tarek went to Amsterdam and Paris for their first Thanksgiving together, as they documented on Instagram.

A month later, they spent Christmas Day with Tarek's children. 

"My heart is so full of love," Heather wrote in an Instagram post about the day. "@therealtarekelmoussa and the kids have changed my life more than I can even describe. This is our first Christmas together and it's one I'll never forget."

"I just adore Tarek's family so much," she added.

January 29, 2020: The couple announced they were living together.

Tarek announced on Instagram that he and Heather had been living together "for a while" at the end of January 2020. He said they split their time between a home in West Hollywood and another in Orange County.

"The best part is I now have someone to go to bed with and wake up to every day," he wrote. "The better part is that person is @heatherraeyoung."

Tarek later revealed in another Instagram post that he and Heather moved in together "less than a week after our first date."

July 22, 2020: Heather and Tarek celebrated their first anniversary.

Both Tarek and Heather took to Instagram to celebrate one year together.

"From the first day I met you, to our first date and our second date when we decided to commit 100% before we barely even knew each other. But we knew what we had was special. We had that butterflies in your tummy, can't eat, can't stop smiling soul mate love," Heather captioned her post. "You are my very best friend in the whole world. The man I look up to, admire, adore, best daddy, best heart, kind & most important loyal and honest."

"I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with you," she added. 

Tarek echoed Heather's post, saying he would be "lost" without her.

"The second our eyes connected and we smiled at each other I knew my life would never be the same," he wrote. "She is incredible in every way possible and most importantly she loves and adores Tay and Bray."

"I just love you to the moon and back. You are my everything and you complete me. I'd be lost without you," Tarek said of Heather.

July 26, 2020: Tarek proposed to Heather.

The couple announced their engagement with matching Instagram posts.

Tarek popped the question on the beach, which Heather said was a complete surprise in a follow-up post.

Tarek told People he knew he wanted to make Heather his wife after seeing how she was with his children.

"We were sitting on the boat one day, and I looked over, and she had Taylor in one arm and Brayden in the other arm, and they're all three cuddling," he said. "That was the moment I knew I had to make her my wife and bring her into the family." 

People also reported that Tarek proposed with an eight-carat diamond. The emerald-cut ring sits on a gold band.

September 2020: The engaged couple bought their first home together.

The pair bought a home in Newport Beach, California, where they first met, as People reported.

"Tarek originally bought it as a flip but then they decided to make it their new home," a representative for the couple told People at the time.

February 2021: Heather got a tattoo in Tarek's honor.

As US Weekly reported, Heather revealed on Instagram that she got a tattoo on her hip that read, "Yes sir, Mr. El Moussa" as a Valentine's Day present for her fiancé. 

She later deleted the post after fans reacted with mixed reviews, according to People.

July 2021: Tarek reportedly compared his ex to Heather on the set of "Flip or Flop."

People reported that Tarek yelled at Christina Haack on the "Flip or Flop" set and compared her to Heather.

"Look at me, look at me, look at me. It's called winning," Tarek said to Haack, according to People. The publication also reported that he called his ex-wife a "washed-up loser" during the incident.

August 14, 2020: Heather and Tarek got a puppy together.

The couple added their puppy Bugz to their family as a surprise for Taylor and Brayden, as Tarek wrote on his Instagram.

"It's one of those moments where you know your kids will look back on it and remember it forever," he wrote.

October 23, 2021: Heather and Tarek got married.

The couple got married near Santa Barbara, California, with Heather wearing a Galia Lahav gown. They filmed the wedding for an HGTV special, "Tarek & Heather: The Big I Do."

"I'm a WIFE!!! Yesterday feels like a dream… so perfect, filled with so much love and magic," Heather captioned an Instagram post about the event. "Truly everything I've ever wanted and more. I love you so much @therealtarekelmoussa and now I get to say we're officially MARRIED!!"

Heather also shared on Instagram that she and Tarek said vows to his children during the wedding.

"When your daddy and I decided to be fully committed, I was 100% committing myself to you too," Heather said she told the kids in her vows. "I am beyond honored to be your 'bonus' mommy. Thank you for allowing me to love your daddy with all my heart. I love you both more than you will ever know."

January 2022: Heather started freezing her eggs as she and Tarek family planned.

Heather told Today that she didn't think she wanted to have children until she met Tarek.

Heather went on to tell Today that she found out she had a low egg count in her 20s, so she decided to freeze her eggs and create embryos through IVF after they got married to transfer in the summer of 2022. Heather documented the process on social media.

"I'm glad I decided to share my story on Instagram because struggling with infertility can feel very isolating," she told Today. "I also want to encourage women to think about their fertility in their 20s."

April 2022: The El Moussas got matching tattoos.

On April 12, Heather posted a black-and-white photo on Instagram of fresh tattoos on her and Tarek's arms.

Both were inked with "10.23.2021," their wedding date, on their forearms. Heather's wrist had a smaller "TEM" tattoo, while Tarek's had "HEM" in the same place to represent each other's initials. 

May 11, 2022: The El Moussas turned over a new leaf with Haack after a medical emergency.

In March 2022, "Flip or Flop" ended amid reports that filming had become "too intimate" for Tarek and Haack to film.

Then, Heather seemed to confirm that Tarek had compared her and Haack during the "Selling Sunset" reunion, which aired on May 6, 2022.

Just three days later, the Daily Mail published photos of Heather and Haack at Brayden's soccer game, in which the pair appeared to be arguing. In separate photos, a coach seemed to be separating Tarek from Josh Hall.

Heather and Haack released a joint statement on May 11, saying they had resolved "a personal matter." On May 13, they posed for a photo together and said they were focused on co-parenting after Brayden underwent an emergency appendectomy, which Haack said was a "wake-up call."

June 22, 2022: HGTV announced a new series about the couple.

HGTV announced the series "The Flipping El Moussas" in a press release provided to Business Insider.

The press release said the show would document Tarek and Heather combining their home flipping and renovation skills, as well as their IVF journey, a move, and a renovation. 

"We are so excited to bring viewers into our world to see the ins and outs of our day-to-day lives," the El Moussas said in a statement included in the same press release.

"As busy parents and successful real estate experts, fans can watch us as we go from making breakfast for the kids in the morning, to making business deals by the afternoon," the statement said. "The cameras are capturing our journey like never before and we can't wait to share it all."

"Bringing our expertise together from each of our worlds has been so much fun," Tarek and Heather wrote in an Instagram post about the series. "We are working on all new flipping projects - from multimillion-dollar homes in Los Angeles to a tiny cabin in Big Bear, California, and everything in between that we cannot wait to share with you."

"We'll also be giving a little peek into our everyday lives with the kids, our loved ones and our journey to grow our family," the post went on to say.

July 13, 2022: Heather and Tarek announced they were expecting their first child together.

The El Moussas announced on Instagram that they were expecting a baby in early 2023.

They opened up about the pregnancy to People, saying it was a "huge shock" because they were scheduling an appointment to implant an embryo via IVF when Heather found out she was pregnant naturally. 

"We just weren't expecting this," Heather told People. "We had just gone through IVF. We had embryos on ice. We had a plan."

"I think when you least expect it, and there's no stress in your life, the world just brought us what was meant to be," she added. "I'm so excited that it happened like this."

July 24, 2022: The El Moussas announced they were having a boy.

Tarek and Heather shared that their third child would be a son with an Instagram reel in which they popped blue confetti poppers alongside Brayden and Taylor. 

Heather posted on her story that she was "shaking" and her heart was racing ahead of the reveal.

January 31, 2023: Heather and Tarek welcomed their first son together.

Heather and Tarek announced on Instagram that their son, Tristan El Moussa, was born on January 31, 2023.

Speaking to Business Insider just over a month after Tristan's birth, Heather said her close bond with Taylor and Brayden made her want to have a child.

"They're very special kids, and I'm so in love with them, and that's what made me want to have a baby, as well as my love for Tarek," Heather said. "This is the kind of relationship you dream of and hope for. I found the love of my life, and I wanted to create a beautiful baby with him."

March 2, 2023: "The Flipping El Moussas" premiered on HGTV.

The series spotlighted the couple flipping homes, and it gave peeks at their home life together as well.

Ahead of the premiere, the couple told BI that working together only made them closer.

"We love being together," Heather told BI. "Tarek and I really trust each other, and we value each other and respect each other."

The show was confirmed for a second season in July 2023, and it premiered in December 2024.

May 15, 2024: The El Moussas announced they were teaming up with Haack on a new series.

HGTV announced it would reunite Haack and Tarek on-screen alongside their new spouses in a house-flipping competition series called "The Flip Off."

In the show, the El Moussas were set to compete against Haack and Hall to see who could make the most money off of a flip. However, Haack and Hall split in July 2024 after filming had begun, so Haack ended up competing in the series solo.

Tarek and Heather expressed their support for Haack amid her divorce to paparazzi on July 23, 2024, as E! News reported.

"We support her," Heather said.

"Whatever she needs, we're here to help," Tarek echoed.

January 29, 2025: "The Flip Off" premiered on HGTV.

The series premiere featured some dramatic moments, including an emotional conversation between Tarek and Haack about her divorce.

Although they're competing against each other on the show, Haack and the El Moussas seem to be on good terms, with Haack and Heather hugging each other on the show.

The El Moussas and Haack even told BI before the premiere that they were open to flipping a house as a team.

• Anthony Mackie faced backlash for comments he made about Captain America.
• Mackie suggested Captain America should not solely represent America, sparking controversy.
• He's not the first actor who played the role to downplay the "America" aspect of the character.

Anthony Mackie's Captain America will be on the big screen for the first time in Marvel's new movie "Captain America: Brave New World" after taking the iconic shield in the Disney+ series "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier" in 2021.

But Mackie's moment in the spotlight has already been marred by controversy ahead of the movie's February 14 opening when comments he made about his character landed him in hot water.

"To me, Captain America represents a lot of different things and I don't think the term 'America' should be one of those representations," Mackie told a live audience in Rome on Monday on the film's press tour.

"It's about a man who keeps his word," he continued. "Who has honor, dignity, and integrity. Someone who is trustworthy and dependable."

Mackie also called the opportunity to play the character "a dream coming true."

While the comments could be interpreted as Mackie's attempt to cater to an international audience, the footage went viral and some Americans weren't happy.

The backlash was immediate, but Mackie isn't the first to downplay the 'America' aspect of the character

The response to Mackie's comments was swift.

Users on X had responses that ranged from, "Well, his name is Captain America. He represents American values. Get used to it," to "Strange take."

Others deemed the movie anti-American and called for a boycott of "Brave New World."

Mackie is not the first Captain America to downplay the "America" in the character's name.

Chris Evans, who bowed out of playing the role for nearly a decade following 2019's "Avengers: Endgame," told CBM in 2011 that he was trying not to "get too lost in the American side" of the character.

"This isn't a flag-waving movie. It is red, white, and blue, but it just so happens that the character was created in America during wartime, when there was a common enemy, even though it is Captain America," he said.

"I've said before in interviews that it feels more like he should just be called Captain Good. You know, he was created at a time when there was this undeniable evil, and this guy was kind of created to fight that evil. I think that everyone could agree that Nazis were bad, and he, Cap, just so happens to wear the red, white, and blue."

Evans didn't receive any backlash from these comments.

Mackie has since clarified his remarks

In a statement on his Instagram Stories, Mackie responded to the backlash Tuesday.

"Let me be clear about this, I'm a proud American and taking on the shield of a hero like CAP is the honor of a lifetime," he wrote. "I have the utmost respect for those who serve and have served our country. CAP has universal characteristics that people all over the world can relate to."

Reps for Mackie did not respond to Business Insider's request for comment.

"Captain America: Brave New World" also stars Harrison Ford, Danny Ramirez, and Giancarlo Esposito.

• Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg told staffers in a Thursday all-hands to be ready for an "intense year."
• Zuckerberg addressed Meta's rollback of its DEI programs and work with the US government.
• He said that AI could lead to some roles becoming redundant, as well as hiring more engineers.

Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg told employees Thursday in a company all-hands meeting to "buckle up" for an "intense" year ahead and addressed several recent policy changes.

Zuckerberg opened the all-hands by emphasizing a sense of urgency for the year. He told staff that he expected to have a clearer sense of the company's trajectory by the end of 2025 and that AI would be top of mind. He also addressed recent policy changes related to fact-checking and programs for diversity, equity, and inclusion.

"This is a marathon, not a sprint," he said in a recording reviewed by Business Insider. "But honestly, this year feels a little more like a sprint to me."

Meta declined to comment.

Meta is betting on AI

In a wide-ranging opening monologue, Zuckerberg predicted that 2025 would be the year a "highly intelligent and personalized" digital assistant reached 1 billion users.

"I think whoever gets there first is going to have a long-term, durable advantage towards building one of the most important products in history," Zuckerberg said, according to the recording.

Zuckerberg also reiterated his belief that this would be the year Meta started seeing AI agents take on work, including writing software. Asked whether this would lead to job cuts, Zuckerberg said it was "hard to know" and that while it may lead to some roles becoming redundant, it could lead to hiring more engineers who can harness artificial intelligence to be more productive.

"The nature of what engineering is in the future will be different than it is today," he said.

Meta made recent policy changes

Zuckerberg touched on several flashpoints in recent weeks from inside the company, including the announcement that it would move away from third-party fact-checkers to a community-notes system like that used by Elon Musk's X.

He told staff to wait and see how the new system would be implemented.

"I'm actually quite optimistic that this is going to end up being a better system," he said.

Zuckerberg also said this would be a year for "resetting" Meta's relationship with governments worldwide.

"After the last several years, we now have an opportunity to have a productive partnership with the United States government, and we're going to take that," Zuckerberg said. "I think it's the right thing to do because there are several areas, even if we don't agree on everything, where we have common cause for things that are going to make it so that we can serve our community better, and we can advance the interests of our country together, " he said, adding that Meta would do so in ways that didn't compromise its "principles or values."

Meta rolled back DEI programs

The Meta chief also addressed the company's recent changes in its stance on DEI policies and the rollback of those programs in response to a shifting legal and regulatory landscape under the Trump administration.

"The way to think about this is we're in the middle of a pretty rapidly changing policy and regulatory landscape that increasingly views any policy that might advantage any one group of people over another as something that is unlawful, and because of that, we need to adjust, or else we'll just be out of alignment with what the law is saying," Zuckerberg said.

He again said that Meta viewed diversity as a strength, adding: "Historically, we've had a handful of specific programs that were very focused on certain underrepresented groups, and I think the direction of the policy and regulatory and legal direction on a lot of the stuff is that you can't do things that advantage specific groups, even if you're trying to make up for other things."

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• Asteroid 2024 YR4 has a 1.3% chance of impacting Earth in 2032, NASA reports.
• Astronomers all over the world are watching the asteroid, trying to narrow down its future path.
• The risk will likely drop to 0%, but if not, NASA may have to plan a mission to push the asteroid away.

An asteroid large enough to flatten a city may be on track to crash into Earth on December 22, 2032, but the odds are very small, NASA announced Wednesday.

"There should be no particular panic or great concern about this object," Davide Farnocchia, the technical lead at NASA's Center for Near-Earth Object Studies, told Business Insider.

Even so, the object — called asteroid 2024 YR4 — is Earth's biggest known impact threat in 20 years and it's already triggered international planetary-defense planning.

What's the threat level?

As of Thursday morning, the chance of a 2032 impact was 1.3%, or odds of 1 in 77.

As a result, two international asteroid-response groups are actively monitoring the situation: the International Asteroid Warning Network, chaired by NASA, and the Space Mission Planning Advisory Group, chaired by the European Space Agency.

SMPAG is meeting in Vienna next week. If the risk remains above 1%, the group "may begin to evaluate the different options for a spacecraft-based response," the ESA wrote in a Wednesday statement.

A telescope in Chile first discovered the asteroid in late December, but fresh January data drove its risk level past 1%.

That sounds low, but a risk above 1% is uncommon and, therefore, significant for asteroid watchers, Farnocchia said. "It just means that we pay close attention and do everything that we need to do to better understand the situation," he said.

As telescopes all over the planet gather more data on the asteroid, the odds of impact will likely change.

The last time this happened was with the discovery of asteroid Apophis in 2004. It briefly had a nearly 3% impact risk, but after further data narrowed down its future path, it proved to be no threat at all.

That's what NASA expects for 2024 YR4, saying it will probably rule out the possibility of impact by April.

April is the cutoff point because, after that, the asteroid will be too far away for telescopes to continue tracking its path. It won't be observable again until 2028.

If the risk is still above 1% in April, the world's space agencies may find themselves plotting the first-ever mission to deflect an incoming asteroid.

How big is asteroid 2024 YR4?

Asteroid 2024 YR4 is somewhere between 130 to 300 feet wide — not big enough to pose a global threat.

Richard Binzel, an MIT professor of planetary sciences, told BI that if it struck Earth, the effect would be similar to the Tunguska event that occurred in Siberia in 1908, when an asteroid or comet exploded as it plowed through the atmosphere.

The fireball and blast wave flattened 500,000 acres of forest — about 34 times the size of Manhattan.

It's too early to determine the exact location of a potential impact for 2024 YR4.

The asteroid's size and risk make it a 3 out of 10 on the Torino Scale, which categorizes potential impact threats, with 10 being a certain impact that threatens the future of civilization.

A rating of 3 means YR4 will likely prove to be a non-threat, but given the eight-year timeline, it deserves close attention.

"I like our chances," said Binzel, who invented the Torino Scale. He expects more incidents like this "as we're finding more and more of these objects."

How NASA could deflect an incoming asteroid

NASA has already practiced deflecting a dangerous asteroid.

The agency's DART mission in 2022 slammed into a small asteroid and pushed it into a different orbit around the larger asteroid it's circling. It was a test, and it showed the method works.

Binzel thinks eight years is enough warning time to organize a larger deflection mission for asteroid 2024 YR4, if necessary. Given the asteroid's size, it won't take as big of a punch to budge it as, say, the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs.

Failing that, there's always the possibility of evacuation for the affected area. Farnocchia said it's important to remember that Earth is mostly ocean, and then a lot of its land is uninhabited.

However, "it's a little too early to talk about that scenario because we have time now," he said. "The priority is getting observations and better understanding what the situation actually is."

The risk could increase before it drops

The risk could rise before it falls. If new data narrows down the asteroid's possible paths through space, but an Earth impact is still one of them, the risk of impact will be higher.

Even then, further data could completely remove Earth from the cone of probability. That's still the most likely outcome.

Asteroid hunters like Binzel have long fought to increase space surveillance enough to spot potentially dangerous asteroids. In that sense, the discovery of 2024 YR4 is a kind of victory.

• We regularly travel from our small, remote community in Canada to the nearest city to run errands.
• We go to appointments and stock up on two months' worth of groceries when we drive to the city. 
• The best part of the 10-hour round trip is an incredible drive home through pristine wilderness.

Over five years ago, I moved from Vancouver to Beaver Creek, a community of about 80 residents in remote Yukon, Canada.

After moving from a city to a remote area in northern Canada, I realized even normal tasks like getting groceries can be a huge undertaking. So, my husband and I made a solid routine for running errands that we've stuck to ever since.

Every six to eight weeks, my husband, our dog, and I drive 300 miles from our remote northern community to Whitehorse, Yukon, to buy groceries and attend medical appointments. The round-trip drive is about 600 miles and takes about 10 hours.

In general, we try to be as efficient as possible when working with darkness and extremely cold temperatures. During seasons when we get only four hours of sunlight and extremely cold temperatures, we stay overnight in Whitehorse. 

Here's what one of our typical trips is like. 

I got up early and began my day by warming up my truck

Since we crammed two months' worth of appointments, shopping, and errands into our trip to Whitehorse, we got started early. On this particular day, the sun didn't rise until noon, and it was -40 degrees Fahrenheit outside.

This kind of cold can be hard on vehicles, so it's important that we let our truck warm up for a while before heading out. Before driving to town, we also prepare by packing emergency gear.

On this trip, we took a satellite communication device, extra warm clothes, food, water, and car-repair equipment. We can never be too careful when traveling a long distance in extreme cold (and, for parts of the trip, darkness).

While the truck warmed up, I walked our dog

Before taking our dog on a pre-drive walk, I put on more layers than I could count and topped them with a thick parka. I also wore a face covering, hat, snow pants, and winter boots. I bundled our dog up in booties, a thermal layer, and a jacket. 

Because of the cold, our morning walk wasn't as long as it normally is. Still, the truck was warmed and ready to go by the time we returned.

Once we started driving, we passed many trucks and cars across town that had been left running, some without people inside. Not turning your car off while you run into a store or have lunch is normal here when it's extremely cold.

We try to run as many errands as possible when we're in town 

Although our community has a small health center staffed with a nurse and receptionist and a doctor visits two days a month, we have to travel to Whitehorse for specialist appointments or procedures like X-rays, ultrasounds, and certain blood tests.

So, on this trip, our first stop of the day was the town's hospital so I could get routine blood work.

Next, we headed to the vet's office to grab over 100 pounds of dog food (enough for about three months). We like to have extra on hand in case we're not able to complete our trip in good time. After all, planning for contingencies is a huge part of living in a remote community. 

We also made a quick stop at the pet-supply store for treats and a few new toys for our dog, too. We always bring him with us to Whitehorse, so we try to make sure he has a good time on the trip. 

My husband and I split up to run the next few errands on our list. While he picked up a new saw, fuel for the chainsaw, and a waffle maker at the hardware store, I went to the hair salon.

It had been three months since my last visit, so my roots were in desperate need of attention. As my stylist applied color, she said she'd be away the next time we were in town. Unfortunately, this meant I'd have to go three more months without seeing her.

After my hair appointment, I took a cold, quick walk to other shops so I could pick up new wool socks, a gift for a friend, and some candles. Meanwhile, my husband and our dog braved the cold for another short walk. 

Grocery shopping is done last because it requires a lot of effort and planning 

After we reconvened at the truck, we went to buy groceries. As usual, our list was long because we needed enough food to last us nearly two months, including any special events, birthdays, holidays, or get-togethers we'd have during that time.

By the time we were done, our cart was so full that some more local shoppers asked us why we were purchasing so many groceries.

From there, we began sorting ingredients into reusable bags, canvas totes, and coolers as the cashier scanned them. We packed frozen foods into the totes because they'd be OK in the -40-degree weather and put produce and dairy products into the coolers so they didn't freeze.

Loading the truck is always the hard part, as it requires spatial skills and teamwork. We didn't want anything shifting during a 300-mile drive home but wanted snacks and dog food, emergency supplies, and extra clothing accessible just in case.

We hoisted the bins and coolers into the bed of the truck and my husband ducked under the canopy to perfectly arrange everything. Once the truck was packed, we took our dog on one last short walk, filled our tank with gas, and hit the road.

To further prepare for possible emergencies, we always let a friend know when we're leaving Whitehorse and at what time we expect to be home.

Our day ended with another long drive — and lots of unpacking 

As the light disappears, it's not always easy to see where the road ends and the frozen ground begins in northern Canada. With that in mind, we both try to stay constantly alert during every 300-mile drive home. 

Fortunately, the best part of the drive is enjoying the stunning views of untouched nature until the sun sets. 

Once we got home, we were exhausted from our long, incredible drive — but we still had to unload what we got in Whitehorse and put it all away, my least favorite part of the trip.

We hauled everything into the house through the dark, then restocked the large pantry, stuffed the fridge, and loaded the freezer. Some of our food had to be split into smaller packaging or emptied into containers to prevent spoilage or waste.

By the time we finished, we were ready for a big salad full of fresh vegetables that would be a distant memory by the time of our next grocery trip.

This story was originally published on April 6, 2023, and most recently updated on January 30, 2025.

• Carlyle-backed Yipit added M Science, its CEO, and a former executive as defendants in its trade secrets lawsuit.
• M Science, owned by Jefferies, had more than a dozen salespeople use Yipit's stolen information, the new filing says.
• A statement from M Science said that its rival's claims are "absolutely meritless."

Alternative-data giant Yipit laid out how damaging rival M Science's "conspiracy" to steal its confidential information has been, according to new filings in New York federal court.

The new amended complaint, filed in the federal district court in Manhattan, says Carlyle-backed Yipit has churned dozens of customers — including investment managers such as hedge funds — as a result of the theft of its product and client information by two former employees.

M Science executives, including current CEO Michael Marrale, encouraged the theft, the complaint said. The new legal filing added Marrale, former chief revenue officer Valentin Roduit, and the Jefferies-owned company as defendants, as a recent motion from Yipit indicated it would.

The original Yipit lawsuit, from last October, rocked the alternative data industry, a growing subsector of the massive investment management space that caters primarily to hedge funds by providing them with insights gleaned from credit-card receipts, geolocation foot traffic, and web-scraping bots.

The original suit said two former Yipit employees, Alex Pinsky and Zach Emmett, brought proprietary information from their former firm to M Science. The new complaint includes screenshots of texts, Microsoft Teams messages, and Bloomberg chats between the two and others at M Science that show them discussing Yipit clients and products.

In a statement, Yipit said there's evidence that "M Science has run a documented campaign to steal Yipit's information to prop up its business." Specifically, the complaint said Marrale was aware of the information Emmett supplied on the data sources Yipit used to create its Apple product as well as advice for its sales team on how to present the product to clients. M Science has its own rival Apple data product.

In one May text chain before Emmett left Yipit, Aaron Fuchs, an M Science salesperson, messaged saying he wished Emmett would stay at Yipit longer. Emmett responded saying "maybe there's a comp plan where I am just a mole." Emmett clarified in a second message: "For mscience."

"Lol Rich Handler would pay your legal bills," Fuchs responded, referring to Jefferies CEO.

"Yipit is very well aware that the statement regarding Mr. Handler was a sophomoric wisecrack made by a junior person who has never met Mr. Handler and whom Mr. Handler does not know," a statement from M Science reads.

"The fact that Yipit added this tripe in their complaint underscores the absolutely meritless nature of their claims."

Roduit, who no longer works at M Science, did not respond to requests for comment.

More to come

The legal battle between the two well-known alternative data brands got even nastier last week when M Science filed its own complaint against Yipit, accusing its rival of many of the same practices. Yipit has not yet responded to the complaint in court but called it "a meritless smokescreen" in a statement to Business Insider last week.

As for the original lawsuit, Yipit said it believes there's more to uncover in the "conspiracy" that will implicate even more people at M Science. The new legal filing states it began to investigate Emmett "immediately" after he publicly announced he was joining M Science and found "smoking gun" text messages on his work laptop, which he returned months after he was instructed to. Yipit said it used data loss protection software Cyberhaven to recover various evidence from Emmett's laptop.

The new complaint states that "more than a dozen M Science employees solicited and/or received Yipit's information directly or indirectly from Mr. Emmett" — roughly a quarter of M Science's sales force.

"Yipit cannot know, without discovery, just how far the conspiracy to misappropriate and use its information extended. But the information M Science provided so far indicates that the scheme included many M Science employees, including Mr. Marrale and other officers at the C-suite level, and that the highest echelons of M Science leadership were either aware of this conspiracy, or (in the case of Mr. Marrale, among many others) actively participated in it," the new complaint reads.

Yipit questioned the rationale of different corporate decisions made by M Science over the past couple of years in the filing. The complaint references a BI report from 2023 on M Science's change to its pricing model that increased the cost of its reports for its biggest clients, some of whom had to pay double.

Marrale, in an interview with BI in 2023, said that the decision was driven by new data sources, improved infrastructure, and a partnership with Databricks. Yipit's complaint said the information its former salespeople provided M Science executives about its own client base — and the prices Yipit was charging them — paved the way for M Science to raise its own prices.

"These price increases could have seriously jeopardized M Science's business and driven away its customers," the complaint said.

"M Science's willingness to make such a move suggests that it obtained detailed information about the pricing strategies of its primary competitor, Yipit—on information and belief, through the illicit disclosures of its departing employees—and adjusted accordingly."

• After working at my tech job for six years, I was laid off.
• Now, I'm a stay-at-home mom, and I'm taking care of my daughter while on the job hunt.
• It's complicated, and I'm not sure which part of my life is keeping me busier.

My daughter had been chugging milk like a high school boy after football practice, so I consulted the "experts" on the proper amount for an 18-month-old. I typically rely on our pediatrician and my mother for the best toddler-rearing advice, but for something as trivial as this, I went straight to the sage elders known as mommy bloggers. About 20 ounces per day, one of them said. Good enough for me.

I had my answer, but couldn't help scrolling into the quicksand of the other posts, particularly one with the headline "How to Survive as a SAHM." I figured SAHM stood for something horrible, like Scabies After Hemorrhaging Mastitis, but after Googling learned it meant stay-at-home mom. Oh, that? Easy.

There is an acronym for everything in parenting — LO (little one), BLW (baby-led weaning), SEH (so exhausted, help) — but I'd been too busy to keep track of them all. I had a job. A job in tech I'd had for six years. A job I did well but wouldn't have said I was particularly passionate about, which is fortunate, considering one morning last June, I was promptly let go.

I'm now juggling my job search with being a stay-at-home mom

I have been applying and interviewing ever since, with varying degrees of failure — the most spectacular of which have come after getting to the final round with four different companies. I shouldn't be surprised. The economy is at a tipping point, egg prices are high, and the world is burning, but I figured I'd be exempt from reality. Instead, six months later, I'm still in the grind, not just in trying to secure an income, but in full-time parenting my toddler. SAHM-ing.

Previously, my husband and I had been juggling watching her and working at the same time, which wasn't hard when she was young and when, for a decent portion of that time, he'd been laid off, too, applying, interviewing, and SAHDad-ing.

Now it's my turn. I wake up early and do a sun salutation in the form of trolling LinkedIn and applying to anything I am qualified for, which is plenty — I have 10+ years of experience under my belt, which I've said approximately four thousand times, every time while smiling! When my daughter wakes up, I feed her, change her, play with her, and clean the house. The busy mom in the commercials with the laundry basket? That is me. But that woman isn't also editing her résumé and networking with strangers.

I'm not sure which is keeping me busier

When my daughter has her N (nap), I furiously put on mascara and rehearse my worth as an employee and subsequent human for interviews I've conveniently scheduled while she's D (down). When she's awake, I do more feeding, playing, and cooking, more tired than I was earlier, but slightly more attractive. Soon enough, it's her bedtime and then ours, before we wake up, wash, and repeat.

It's hard not to think I would have been hired by now if I had more time to job search. It's also hard not to think I would enjoy staying at home more if I wasn't spending so much time job searching.

Like most people, it's less that I want a job, and more that I need one. And I'd like a good one, because of said egg prices. Baking is my weekly non-negotiable, and my daughter and I do it together. She bangs the rolling pin, throws flour, and stirs every mixture for the 0.5 seconds I allow. We listen to music and dance. The floor gets filthy. I kiss her round cheeks that taste like butter.

I want this season of life to pass, to get easier. And I don't. The constant rejection from HR people is hard right now, but it's easier to swallow when I have someone who needs me more than their tech companies ever will. Someone who wants me regardless of my experience building go-to-market programs, or my Salesforce expertise, or my (incredible, I will say) ability to work in cross-functional teams. She needs me to be her SAHM. Easy.

• Google offers a voluntary exit package to US staff in the Platforms and Devices unit.
• The exit program follows last year's merger of Android and Chrome with device teams.
• Google aims to enhance focus and efficiency in building products post-restructuring.

Google has offered a voluntary exit package to employees in the unit responsible for Android software and Pixel phones, multiple employees familiar with the matter said.

The unit lead Rick Osterloh, a senior vice president at Google, sent a note Thursday to staff in its platforms and devices group offering an exit program for staff who wished to leave. The group also works on Chrome and wearable devices.

The voluntary exit program is specific to the platform and devices team in the US and is only open to platforms and devices Googlers reporting to Osterloh.

A Google spokesperson confirmed the voluntary exit program. 9to5Google earlier reported on the memo.

"The Platforms and Devices team is offering a voluntary exit program that provides US-based Googlers working on this team the ability to voluntarily leave the company with a severance package," the Google spokesperson said in a statement. "This comes after we brought two large organizations together last year. There's tremendous momentum on this team, and with so much important work ahead, we want everyone to be deeply committed to our mission and focused on building great products with speed and efficiency."

In April, Google merged its Android and Chrome group with the unit responsible for building devices such as Pixel phones and watches. Google leaders framed this change as a way to move faster and "to bring deep AI expertise across platforms and devices."

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• I stayed in a treehouse in Florida at Danville B&Bs, and it was incredibly unique.
• My treehouse wasn't luxurious, but it had a private hot tub, bar, and a tree-trunk-style elevator.
• I loved my stay and exploring its fun surrounding 30-acre property by golf cart.

Recently, I had one of my most unique rental experiences: sleeping in an adults-only treehouse in Florida.

It's located in Danville B&Bs in Geneva, about 30 miles northeast of Orlando.

The property of rentals and event spaces includes a range of lodgings, including a loft in an airplane hangar, a 21-foot yurt, and, of course, the adults-only treehouse.

Treehouse reservations can fill up months in advance, so I felt lucky to find an available night just weeks before my stay. One night in the treehouse typically costs about $200.

The property felt fairly secluded.

After a long day of driving, I arrived at the property in the dark. Towering oak and magnolia trees framed a dirt driveway that led to the secluded treehouse.

I felt like I had traveled to an isolated corner of the world. Bugs swarmed around the headlights, and a friendly cat appeared to remind me that I was not alone.

The treehouse exceeded my expectations — brightly colored lights glowed around the tree, over the hot tub, and across the outdoor tiki bar.

Inside, it felt like a whimsical glamping retreat.

An outdoor elevator disguised as a tree trunk transported me and my belongings from the lower level to the treehouse itself, which is an 18-foot yurt on a platform between two trees.

The space was larger than I had anticipated, and it was equipped with a small kitchenette, a bathroom with a full shower, a queen-size bed, and a couch.

It was filled with comfortable wood furniture and fun details, like leaf-patterned drapes and even a tree trunk with the owner's name carved into it.

The space had a lot of light during the day with its 4-foot skylight and panoramic windows, too.

I slept on a queen-sized Murphy bed.

The decor evoked forest vibes but the strong WiFi signal and smart television reminded me I wasn't far from civilization.

As I relaxed in the rocking chair, I listened to the pitter-patter of raindrops that had begun to fall on the yurt's canvas.

Eventually, I pulled down the queen-sized Murphy bed and allowed the friendly cat to stay and cuddle my feet. I slept comfortably and enjoyed the quiet peacefulness of being in nature.

The next morning, I enjoyed the amenities and explored the property.

As the sun rose, the leaves in the upper branches were gently illuminated, and bits of blue sky peeked out. It was wonderful to wake up naturally to the sun without being blinded by its rays.

I made coffee and brought a cup downstairs to have during my morning soak in the hot tub, which is fashioned from the cowling of a DC-10 jet engine. As a full-time traveler who flies often, it was fun to soak in a tub made from part of an airplane.

Plus, I appreciated being able to take a rinse in my private outdoor shower once I was done.

The treehouse's third floor was wonderful, too.

As I explored the accommodations, I found even more wonderful details. The toilet had a bidet, and the treehouse even had a garbage chute.

One of the property's other highlights is its outdoor swing and third-floor seating area within the trees.

At one point, the property's owner stopped by.

The owner of Danville stopped by on a golf cart to greet me, provide more details about the property, and tell me the name of my new cat friend (Woodstock).

He also said guests can rent a Jeep or golf cart for about $15 to explore the 30-acre property.

I enjoyed driving around to see some of Danville's highlights.

I liked driving around in an antique golf cart to see more of the property, which even had a Main Street with vintage signs and decor.

One of my favorite parts was the 1960s-themed area called Woodstock, complete with a replica stage and a groovy bonfire setup.

The other highlight was a relaxation zone, nicknamed the Zen Den, which had massage chairs and a Tibetan sound bowl.

Overall, Danville was so fun that I didn't mind that it wasn't particularly luxurious.

When I chatted with Shaw, he mentioned that Danville is not the place for those looking for a high-end stay — it's ideal for those seeking experiences.

I'd have to agree. This is one of the most memorable, unique stays I've had, and I enjoyed exploring my treehouse and the property around it.

Overall, one night felt too short to enjoy this inventive glamping retreat. I would definitely stay here again.

• Douglas Elliman is one of the biggest names in real estate, but it has been touched by a scandal.
• Elliman's new CEO, Michael Liebowitz, explained how he'd improve the fortunes of the brokerage.
• An attorney for Howard Lorber, Elliman's former CEO, defended Lorber's tenure.

Michael Liebowitz, the new CEO of the residential brokerage firm Douglas Elliman, describes his relationship with Howard Lorber, the previous chief executive, as close.

Yet in a recent interview in his corner office overlooking Madison Avenue, Liebowitz sought to put some distance between himself and his predecessor, a longtime power player in the luxury brokerage business who left the firm abruptly in October.

"I'm very much an operator, which is a much different thing from Howard," Liebowitz said. "Howard was not an operational person at all."

Liebowitz said Lorber was "more of a front guy," suggesting he was less focused on Douglas Elliman's bottom line than pulling levers in his network of high-net-worth home sellers, buyers, and developers to help arrange deals and win business for the firm.

Liebowitz suggested that he was more interested in minding the company's financial performance.

"I watch the overhead, I watch the expenses," Liebowitz said. "I watch where we're spending money on. I look at return on investment."

Less than three months into his tenure, Liebowitz — a brokerage outsider whose background is in insurance sales — is familiarizing himself with one of the highest-profile players in luxury real estate while trying to steady the company after a moment of tumult.

The firm is a top seller of upscale homes in major markets like New York City and South Florida. Leading brokers at the firm, including Eleonora Srugo and Fredrik Eklund, have starred in popular real-estate-themed reality TV shows. The firm has also been involved in some of the most lucrative home sales of all time, including the hedge fund billionaire Ken Griffin's purchase of a roughly $240 million Manhattan apartment in 2019.

More recently, it has been shaken by a raft of shocking charges against two former star brokers.

Lorber, who became the CEO in 2003, stepped down from his leadership role following an internal investigation in the aftermath of accusations of rape, drugging, and sexual assault against Tal and Oren Alexander, brothers who were top agents at Douglas Elliman for more than a decade.

Bloomberg News reported in November that Lorber disclosed during the investigation that he had consensual relationships with two brokers at the firm.

Revelations of Lorber's conduct and his close relationship with the Alexanders, who have since been arrested on federal criminal sex trafficking charges, bruised Douglas Elliman's reputation.

Two people who worked for Douglas Elliman during Lorber's tenure told Business Insider that there appeared to be a culture where professional boundaries and accountability were blurry. The Alexander brothers are fighting the charges and have denied the accusations against them, which have been brought forward by dozens of women, including some former colleagues at Douglas Elliman.

An attorney for Lorber disputed that characterization of Douglas Elliman's workplace during Lorber's tenure.

"Any suggestion that Mr. Lorber is responsible for a culture that promoted or enabled the kind of sociopathic acts presently alleged against the Alexander brothers is false," the attorney, Marc Kasowitz, said in a statement. Kasowitz also denied that Lorber's relationship with the Alexanders was closer than the connections he had with any other top broker at the firm.

"He did not have a close relationship with them, and his attendance at parties with them or at events they hosted does not evidence such a relationship," he said.

Kasowitz also challenged Liebowitz's description of Lorber's leadership.

"Mr. Liebowitz's suggestion that Mr. Lorber was not a good business manager is contradicted by Douglas Elliman's track record, as reflected in its public filings, of profitable growth over many years with Mr. Lorber as its chairman and CEO," Kasowitz wrote. "Under his leadership, the company became one of the largest residential brokerage companies in the New York metropolitan area, it expanded into new markets across the country, and it achieved remarkable growth and revenues."

After going public three years ago, Douglas Elliman posted annual operating losses in 2022 and 2023 amid weakness in the residential market. In the third quarter of 2024, its most recent financial report, it reported a net loss of almost $27.5 million. The company's stock price has slid by 84% since its public offering. Kasowitz noted that the company's performance had been challenged by higher interest rates and a nationwide dip in residential sales that affected rivals as well.

Lorber attracted criticism from investors over lucrative bonuses and other perks, including payments for a private jet, that seemed out of step with the company's declining fortunes.

The new CEO promised to get the company back on track by "getting our expense structure to where we think it should be" through cost cutting, while also building other service lines to diversify and expand its revenue.

"This brand, look at what was thrown at it," Liebowitz said. "We're still doing new business every single day."

From Staten Island to the top of luxury real estate

Liebowitz grew up in Staten Island and began his career operating property- and casualty-insurance businesses. He was appointed to the Douglas Elliman board after it went public at the end of 2021.

Liebowitz's ascension to CEO has been well received by some investors.

Brad Tirpak, an Aspen-based activist shareholder in Douglas Elliman who led a public campaign last summer that criticized Lorber's compensation and spending, said he was confident that Liebowitz would turn the company around.

He said that he texted Liebowitz shortly after his appointment and that "he responded in 15 minutes" and "offered to have a phone call that night."

Tirpak noted that the new boss purchased about $1.8 million worth of Douglas Elliman stock in November, which a public filing disclosed was sold to him by Lorber.

"He wrote a check — he put his money, his reputation on the line," Tirpak said. "Look, he's going to make some mistakes, and I don't know any CEOs that don't. But I think he's going to look at it and he's going to be trying to build shareholder value."

While Lorber was a beloved figure inside the firm, several brokers interviewed by BI expressed optimism about Liebowitz.

"Howard was very much a hands-on chairman, which I think was really nice," Frances Katzen, a successful New York broker at Douglas Elliman, said.

Liebowitz is "someone who's very smart, who is also very strategic — setting up systems and leadership changes that I think will make a meaningful difference," Katzen added.

Liebowitz said he had spent much of his time so far visiting Douglas Elliman offices across the country.

"I have visited almost the whole company," he said. "I've met thousands of agents."

Fast changes in the C-suite

Liebowitz said he wanted to upend Douglas Elliman's top-down management style and was creating a 15-person "agent board of directors" that would regularly confer with him and management and "be involved in major decision-making on a granular basis within the company."

"We want the agents bought into the things that we're doing," Liebowitz said. "The agents of this company are going to be assisting and helping me run this business."

The new CEO is trying to create broker buy-in at a precarious moment. Some prominent agents, including Tracy Tutor, a top broker who accused Oren Alexander of drugging her at a dinner, have recently exited. An attorney for Oren Alexander didn't respond to a request for a comment.

"I wished her well," Liebowitz said of Tutor's departure. "If I saw Tracy in a restaurant, I'd walk over and say hello."

"I wish Michael the best," Tutor told BI. "Other than that, I have no comment."

Liebowitz insisted that the firm's broker "retention has been great" and that developers were eager to hire the firm to help it sell new projects — a key area of its business.

Already the new CEO has made quick changes in the company's C-suite. In October, Scott Durkin, an executive who oversaw the company's brokerage business, was fired. The following month, David Ballard, its chief technology officer, left. Rumors of dismissals to come have swirled as Liebowitz puts his stamp on the company.

"Listen, the changes that we've made have been positive changes," Liebowitz said.

• There's an astonishing amount of news coming out of the tech world right now.
• This week, it's DeepSeek. Before that, it was the TikTok ban-then-maybe-sale, huge infrastructure deals, and, of course, Trump.
• I wanted an insider's view on Silicon Valley's hopes and fears, so I talked to The Information's founder, Jessica Lessin.

This week's news about DeepSeek — the Chinese-built AI engine that's supposedly just as powerful as top-of-the-line stuff out of the US but built at a fraction of the cost — shook Silicon Valley and beyond.

But that's just one of a series of issues roiling tech. The big difference: At the moment, DeepSeek isn't intertwined with Donald Trump.

Just about everything else in the tech world right now seems deeply enmeshed with Trump 2.0 — from a potential forced sale of TikTok to the parade of the most powerful CEOs in the world aligning themselves with the new president.

I wanted to get a view of all this from the Bay Area, so I turned to Jessica Lessin, the deeply sourced journalist who has been covering tech for decades — first at The Wall Street Journal and now at The Information, the publication she founded in 2013.

We had what podcasters like to call a "wide-ranging conversation" that went in all sorts of directions, and you can listen to the whole thing on my "Channels" show. Here's an edited excerpt, focusing on DeepSeek's reverberations and the swirl around TikTok.

The DeepSeek news is still shaking Silicon Valley and Wall Street, and people are still sorting out what it means. What is your takeaway?

I think what's happening here is that DeepSeek is striking at a question that is so important: What is the comparative advantage that businesses can have around AI, and where is the money going to be made over the very long term?

We've seen extraordinary growth, extraordinary products coming out of AI. Everyone says we're in early innings, and we are. And so how is this technology going to advance? How easy is it going to be for others to build great models, and what great businesses are going to be built? I've been feeling like that's an open question for many, many months. And I feel like what happened with DeepSeek is — everyone kind of realized, "Wow, this is still a very open question."

Over the last year, there was a conventional wisdom jelling that said the AI winners are going to be the biggest technology companies — the ones that can afford all the chips, all the engineers, all the enormous power these things use. This has upended everything. It's been fascinating to watch the Wall Street reaction.

I think what Wall Street is doing is in some way actually like a meme moment. Not to get too meta here, but DeepSeek kind of had that feeling: The model's been out for a while. They released another model. All of a sudden, Marc Andreessen and Bill Gurley are tweeting about it. It captures Silicon Valley's imagination-slash-paranoia. And so I think Wall Street did what Wall Street does, which is sort of have blunt reactions on all fronts.

You guys had a story, which I assume contributed to the panic, reporting that Meta had spun up war rooms to figure out what they were going to do about DeepSeek. You can imagine Wall Street seeing a story like that coming from your publication and thinking: "Mark Zuckerberg is worried about this. We should be worried about this."

I just think Wall Street is still trying to figure out what to make of AI in general. We are just days after major infrastructure announcements that investors of all stripes are trying to digest. Now we have this evidence that, you know, it may be easier to catch up. So I think so much remains to be seen. But to your earlier point, I still think the largest companies have a lot to gain with AI because they have the distribution; they have the existing business lines that can be turbocharged with it. I don't think that's changed with this announcement.

Donald Trump says he's going to find a non-Chinese buyer for some or all of TikTok. What's your best bet on who that will be?

I go back to the last time this came around [in 2020], and the conversations were furthest along with the consortium that included Microsoft, Walmart, and Oracle. TikTok is strategically valuable to these Big Tech companies because it's one of the largest customers in the world of cloud computing, AI chips, data centers, and so forth. So I sort of believe — and know, to some degree — all of those entities are back at the table. And, you know, you can't count out Elon Musk.

It's surprising how quiet he is about all of that.

It's surprising.

He bought Twitter and, in many ways, it hasn't worked out. You could argue that it has worked for him in other ways. But TikTok is way more influential than Twitter ever was or could be.

Out of his many challenges, selling Teslas with Full Self-Driving capabilities in China is near the top of the list. He is not allowed to do it. It's hurting his position in the China market, which is essential. And so he's looking for every bargaining chip possible. I think his relationship with Trump has been driven in part by this need to negotiate with China. So I think that's important context here. And I'm sure that, like any good businessman, he'd be trying to use this to his advantage. I think we're going to have to just play this out a little bit and see what happens. And all options are still on the table. I mean, you could also have the Chinese government just saying, no way.

Tech leaders are embracing Trump very publicly. How much of that is because they want to get something from him, and how much of it is because they're afraid of angering him?

I think the story is a little more complicated than just wanting to be in his good graces. I think Silicon Valley senses there is a moment to unwind many policies — ranging from tax law to DEI — of the last several years. So tech leaders are really taking this moment. They are aligned with Trump on many issues. They're taking this moment to try and seize that, to get their companies back to where they want them to be.