• Selling a property for profit typically results in paying capital gains tax.
• But there are ways to defer or avoid capital gains tax altogether.
• If you own property, look into 1031 exchanges and the Section 121 exclusion.

If you sell a property for more than you purchased it for, you'll typically owe capital gains tax on the profit.

The amount depends on factors like how long you owned the property and your taxable income, but it could be as high as 37% if you sell within a year and trigger short-term capital gains.

You could also avoid capital gains tax completely. CPA Kristel Espinosa highlighted two IRS rules that all property owners looking to reduce their tax bill should familiarize themselves with.

1. Defer taxes indefinitely with a 1031 exchange

A 1031 exchange — sometimes called a "like-kind" exchange — allows investors to avoid capital gains tax if they swap one investment property for another one of equal or higher value. This rule is specifically for investment properties, not for primary residences or vacation homes.

"It's a way to defer capital gains by reinvesting the proceeds into a like-kind property," said Espinosa, noting that this strategy is best for investors who plan to buy and hold real estate for the long term.

"It's not meant for people who just want to purchase real estate, flip it real quick, and then get another one. The whole point is getting the gain to be deferred into the future, so if you're constantly buying and selling and flipping properties, this 1031 game doesn't work."

You'll pay capital gains tax when you sell for good — there's no limit to the number of 1031 exchanges you do — but you can theoretically avoid capital gains tax indefinitely if you continue re-investing in like-kind rentals.

Espinosa said her clients use this strategy to diversify their portfolio or upgrade to a property with better cash flow.

There's a strict time limit on 1031 exchanges: You must identify your replacement property (or properties) in writing within 45 days of selling the first property. Then you must close on the replacement property within 180 days of your initial property sale.

Investor Zeona McIntyre told BI how she used a 1031 exchange to upgrade from a small, short-term rental property in St. Louis to a multifamily in Florida that produced stronger cash flow.

"A 1031 exchange allows you to defer your tax burden; a lot of people think, 'Oh, I don't pay any taxes,' but you're technically kicking the can down the road," McIntyre said. "The cool thing, though, is that you can do unlimited 1031 exchanges and infinitely kick it down the road. And then when you pass away, if you pass that on to someone else, like your children or a family member, the inherited home does not have the tax burden anymore. So it dies with you."

Another investor spoke to BI about his attempted 1031 exchange that ultimately failed because of the tight 180-day timeline.

"In my opinion, that's not enough time. I felt like I was rushed," said Steve Lewis, who owns properties in New Jersey and ended up walking away from the exchange and paying capital gains tax on the sale.

His major takeaway was that 180 days go by faster than you may think. While his failed 1031 experience may be "rare," he said, "there are so many things that could delay a closing." If you plan to do an exchange, his advice is to plan ahead as much as you possibly can for the next property purchase.

2. Exclude up to $500,000 of the gain of a home sale with the 121 exclusion

If you're a homeowner looking to sell, you may benefit from the Section 121 Exclusion, an IRS rule that lets taxpayers exclude up to $250,000 of the gain from the sale. A couple filing jointly can exclude up to $500,000. If you're an individual and sell your home for a gain of $200,000, for example, you won't have to pay capital gains tax on that amount.

There are a few stipulations: You must use the home as your primary residence for at least two of the five years preceding the sale. If you're selling a vacation home, for example, you can't use the exclusion. You can also only use the exclusion every two years.

This rule won't be applicable to new homeowners, said Espinosa, but it's a good option for people who have been in their primary residence for years and are looking to sell — and even applies to people who have turned their primary residence into a rental, as long as they satisfy the two-out-of-five-year rule. The two years don't have to be consecutive.

If your home profits more than $250,000 as an individual or $500,000 as a couple, you'll pay capital gains tax on the amount that exceeds the limit.

One couple explained to BI how they used the exclusion to avoid capital gains tax on each of their property sales. For years, Carl and Mindy Jensen did "live-in flips," in which they would live in a property while renovating it. They made sure to live in the property for at least two years to capitalize on the tax rule — at that point, they'd sell, avoid capital gains tax, and start their next live-in flip.

They used the exclusion for the first time in the early 2000s when they bought a home for $135,000, upgraded the carpet, walls, and bathrooms, and sold it for $235,000.

"Because we lived in it and owned it for two of the past five years, we paid no taxes on the capital gains," said Mindy. While their gains were around $100,000, they could have excluded up to $500,000 since they were both on the title.

"And then we did it again," she said. "We bought another house for $265,00 and sold it for $365,000, so we made another 100,000."

Thanks to the IRS rule, that $100,000 was also shielded from taxes.

• Parents who have retired early or hit financial independence are teaching their children finances.
• Parents said their children are investing, opening retirement accounts, and starting businesses.
• The FIRE movement emphasizes financial literacy and early retirement through careful investing.

At 9 years old, Ramat Oyetunji's daughter made money cleaning friends' and teachers' cars in her neighborhood, put her savings into a stock portfolio, and co-published a kid's book on money with her mom.

"If we can start our kids young, then that's a great way to pass down that financial literacy and generational wealth," said Oyetunji, 48, who retired at 44.

Oyetunji is one of many parents who have embraced the Financial Independence, Retirement Early (FIRE) movement over the last decade. The movement, part of the broader Financial Independence movement, stresses principles like paying off debt, long-term investing, and building passive income streams, all in hopes of retiring from a 9-to-5 job while pursuing passions like travel or financial coaching.

While much of the movement's emphasis falls on amassing enough to retire early, some principles extend to the next generation. Half a dozen parents told Business Insider they wanted their children to be more financially savvy than they were, teaching them how to invest, budget, and delay gratification.

Some said because managing finances is rarely taught in school, they wanted their children to buck the trend and recognize the advantage of starting early.

However, some parents are split on how to best prepare their children for the financial world. Some said teaching their children financial advice early would be key to their success, though they weren't sure how far to go without taking the fun out of childhood.

Another fear is that because they retired early or work part-time, their children may lack a model for working hard.

According to experts, simplicity wins out: Susan Hirshman, director of wealth management for Schwab Wealth Advisory, advised parents to introduce money lessons through "simple, practical ways," such as allowance, budgeting, and goal setting.

"The most effective lessons often come from daily life — whether it's setting a savings goal for a concert ticket, comparing prices while shopping, or helping plan a family vacation activities based on a specified dollar and time budget," Hirshman told BI. "These hands-on experiences build confidence and set the stage for smart financial decisions down the road."

Starting their children young

Oyetunji grew up in Nigeria and moved to the US at 20 to finish her studies in mechanical engineering. She started her career working on offshore oil rigs before transitioning to working as a process engineer, vaccine manufacturer, and closing out her career as a quality director at a chemical company. Along the way, she adopted principles of the FIRE movement.

Oyetunji, who lives outside Philadelphia, retired at 44 with a seven-figure net worth. In her spare time, she continued building her company The FI Woman LLC, which she started in 2015, and wrote books on financial planning. She said her early retirement has allowed her to spend more time with her family and community and teach her daughter financial literacy.

Oyetunji found that the most effective way to teach her daughter is through daily tasks. For example, her daughter plays Minecraft and Roblox, so Oyetunji suggested she buy shares in the games' publishers alongside other blue chip companies to understand how stocks are connected to the real world. She also gives her an allowance to help her understand budgeting.

Brennan Schlagbaum's 1- and 3-year-old daughters are too young to start buying shares in companies, but he's started investing on their behalf. The self-made millionaire, who quit his day job to run a financial literacy platform full-time, said they both have a 529 plan, a brokerage account, and a Roth IRA.

He and his wife Erin opened a 529 plan, meant for education expenses, for their daughters before they were even born. The Dallas-based parents contribute about $250 a month, which they settled on by working backward from their goal: to cover 60% of the cost of an in-state, public university.

"They're required to handle the rest, whether it be a scholarship or paying their way," said Schlagbaum. "We want them to have a role. They're still going to contribute and understand its relevance."

Hirshman said parents should ask themselves if they can afford financing college for their children without losing track of their financial goals, then determine how they should encourage financial responsibility in their children.

"It is so important to understand that a person's relationship to money and wealth starts with their experiences in childhood," Hirshman said. "Teaching children about money shouldn't be about placing pressure on them — it's about equipping them with tools to make confident, informed choices as they grow."

They also contribute about $250 a month to the two brokerage accounts that are earmarked for each daughter. Schlagbaum said they plan to gift them that money in their 20s when they start looking for houses or opening a business.

As for the Roth IRA, a retirement-specific account, the account holder must have earned income to contribute. Schlagbaum contributes any money his daughters earn from baby modeling into their Roths, he said, to "get that compound interest rolling at a very young age."

In the meantime, he's starting to familiarize them with investing terms.

"Recently I sat them down and I was talking to them about what we're investing in my solo 401(k)," he said. "Obviously, they had no idea. But it was just to introduce them to the subject."

Teaching by example

For some FIRE parents, demonstrating techniques for financial success is more powerful than teaching their children about advanced economics.

Cha'Lea Stafford, who quit her sales job to pursue a more entrepreneurial career, didn't learn about personal finance growing up.

"I was born into a world where survival came first," said the podcast host and online course creator. "My family arrived in Georgia with nothing. We were homeless, living in a shed behind the farmers market where we sold produce."

Her two sons, 11 and 17, are both entrepreneurs. They first learned about business basics, and she encouraged her oldest to start a lemonade stand. Her youngest, a toddler at the time, observed, wanting "nothing more than to be like his big brother," she said, and started his own entrepreneurial career.

His first venture was selling books to neighbors out of a red wagon. He's also done mailbox makeovers for neighbors and created an online course to teach other kids how to make their first $500.

"My sons now understand money in ways I never did at their age," said Stafford, who is saving and investing aggressively to hit financial independence. "They invest. They create as budding entrepreneurs. They see wealth as a tool, not just a number."

Susan Cesarini, 57, has made it one of her goals to teach her grandchildren to know the value of a dollar.

Cesarini ran a cat grooming business before retiring at 50, though she unretired during the pandemic after feeling she lost her sense of purpose. Despite retiring with a seven-figure net worth, she restarted her business at half the size and set boundaries on when she works.

Cesarini said she didn't have the time to educate her children on financial advice, as she worked multiple jobs as a single mom. Instead, her children followed her lead and lived frugally.

Cesarini is now guiding her grandchildren more directly. She's taught her 12-year-old grandson about compounding, putting your money to work by investing, and the difference between a "need" and a "want." She's taken her grandchildren to thrift stores so they know how to look for cheaper options and she encourages them to fix things on their own instead of hiring someone. She used her own property, which they painted with her, as an example.

"Seeing me work hard, seeing his mom and dad work hard, I think he wants to work hard and learn new things," Cesarini said. "I definitely see property flipping in his future."

• Rental property owners can leverage tax deductions to lower taxable income significantly.
• Depreciation and cost segregation studies can maximize tax benefits and increase cash flow.
• One CPA says that her high-income clients regularly save seven figures in taxes from cost seg studies.

There are tax advantages that come with owning rental properties — most notably, deductions that will lower your taxable income.

Investors can deduct any expense associated with managing and maintaining their properties, from homeowner's insurance and mortgage interest to business equipment and travel.

One major deduction worth strategizing around is depreciation, CPA Kristel Espinosa told Business Insider — and there's an "easy strategy to maximize that depreciation deduction," she added.

Depreciation is the loss of an asset's value, and investors can claim the value of depreciation as a tax deduction for the entire expected life of the property, which the IRS has determined is 27.5 years for residential buildings and 39 years for commercial buildings. To calculate the annual depreciation on a rental, you divide the value of the property (not including the value of the land) by 27.5 or 39, depending on the property type.

A cost segregation study can help investors accelerate depreciation deductions and, as a result, increase cash flow. It reviews all of a building's external and internal components, some of which can be written off much quicker than the building structure.

"An architectural engineer actually goes out to the property or reviews the blueprints and basically says: 'You could break this building down into smaller components. There are partitions, there's flooring, there's electrical,'" explained Espinosa.

Some of those components can have tax lives that are much shorter — either five, seven, or 15 years — than the standard 27.5 or 39-year timelines. The cost segregation study may find that $100,000 of interior fixtures can be depreciated over five years, for example, and another $100,000 can be depreciated over seven.

"There's a rule out there for tax purposes that says, if you have property that is less than 20 years in depreciable life then you can go ahead and take an immediate write-off of that depreciation expense up to 60%," said Espinosa, referring to allowable deductions for bonus depreciation, which is 60% for 2024.

"That percentage changes every year but, as you can see, you can now take this huge depreciation deduction instead of having to wait the whole 39 years to get that depreciation," she said. "You can take a big chunk in those first couple of years and basically put yourself into a loss position because the deduction is so large, and not have to pay any tax — and that loss generally carries over. If you don't need all of the loss in the current year, that loss carries over into subsequent years, so those losses could shelter the rental income from this property for years to come."

Timing is important, she added: "Act before bonus depreciation phases out completely, post-2026."

How investors are saving seven figures in taxes doing 'cost segs'

Hiring a professional to perform a cost segregation study will cost thousands of dollars, but the tax savings can easily outweigh the cost.

"Last year we helped one of our clients save probably $1.8 million in taxes just by doing a cost seg — and the cost seg only cost them about $10,000," said Espinosa, whose firm operates out of Irvine, California. That wasn't an extreme case for her client base, which includes high-income earners in top tax brackets who typically own large portfolios and commercial buildings.

The savings from a cost seg study can vary significantly depending on a property's purchase price, type, and depreciation reallocation. As a general rule of thumb, "a cost segregation study typically allows 20% to 40% of a building's cost to be reclassified into shorter depreciation periods," said Espinosa. "This can generate first-year tax savings of $50,000 to $150,000+ per $1 million in building cost, depending on the study results and your tax situation."

She gives the example of a $15 million commercial building. A cost seg may reclassify $3 million to $5 million into five-, seven-, or 15-year assets, she said. Assuming $5 million is eligible for bonus depreciation, multiply that by 60% to get $3 million in depreciation deductions.

"Take the $3 million in deductions and multiply it by their tax rate of 37% and that's $1.11 million in federal tax savings alone," said Espinosa. "There is even more benefit if you live in a state with high-income taxes."

Smaller investors can also see big tax savings, she added: "Even a $2 million property can yield $100,000 to $300,000 in federal deductions.

Not every property will benefit from doing a cost seg. The strategy typically works best with commercial properties, as there are more components than a residential home.

While there is no IRS rule limiting the number of cost segregation studies you can do, you'll want to use them strategically, said Espinosa: "Focus on new properties or major renovations. Avoid double-dipping on already classified assets."

She advised retaining engineering reports and tax filings to defend against audits and work with CPAs and cost segregation specialists for accurate studies.

"Cost segregation is powerful but requires careful execution."

• Real-estate investors can lower taxes with cost segregation and 179D studies.
• Cost segregation accelerates depreciation, offering significant tax deductions for investors.
• 179D studies can maximize energy-efficient deductions for commercial property owners.

If you own a rental, you can likely lower your taxable income by deducting expenses associated with managing the property.

Business Insider spoke to Kristel Espinosa, a CPA and partner at JLK Rosenberger with expertise in real estate, about tax strategies and deductions that real-estate investors should pay attention to.

Espinosa pointed to two that can help investors minimize taxes on their rental income.

1. Do a cost segregation study to accelerate the depreciation of your property

One major deduction worth strategizing around as a real-estate investor is depreciation, which is the loss of an asset's value.

Investors can claim the value of depreciation as a tax deduction for the entire expected life of the property, which the IRS has determined is 27.5 years for residential buildings and 39 years for commercial buildings. To calculate depreciation on a rental, you divide the value of the property (not including the value of the land) by 27.5 or 39, depending on the property type.

A cost segregation study can help an investor accelerate depreciation by considering all of a building's internal and external components, some of which may qualify for a shorter depreciable life.

"You can now take this huge depreciation deduction instead of having to wait the whole 39 years to get that depreciation," said Espinosa. "You can take a big chunk in those first couple of years and basically put yourself into a loss position because the deduction is so large, and not have to pay any tax — and that loss generally carries over. If you don't need all of the loss in the current year, that loss carries over into subsequent years, so those losses could shelter the rental income from this property for years to come."

A cost segregation study isn't free — it can cost $5,000 to $15,000 — and it can take up to two months, but it could be worth looking into. Espinosa said that it's saved some of her clients over $1 million in taxes.

"I feel like this is often a missed opportunity just because a lot of people don't know about it or maybe they just don't want to pay the fee," she said. "But somebody needs to do that analysis for them and say, 'Hey, this is the fee that you're paying for this cost seg study, but these are your tax savings, so it's up to you if you want to do this or not. Is it beneficial?' And 99% of the time it's going to be a yes."

2. Do a 179D study to maximize the energy deduction

The 179D deduction is for commercial building owners who have certain energy-efficient components.

"A lot of these commercial buildings now, especially in California, are required to be energy efficient to a certain standard," said Espinosa, who is based in Irvine. "But our clients like to go above and beyond that sometimes and put in other energy-efficient structural components within their commercial buildings."

She recommends a 179D study for that type of client. It works similarly to the cost segregation study, in which you hire a specialist to analyze your building and its components.

She said one of her firm's clients recently did a 179D study and "found an easy $400,000 deduction."

"So, it's not a depreciation deduction, but it is a deduction that they're rightfully able to take. It's a federal-only deduction — California does not conform — but still, it saves them dollars, so they may want to look into that a little bit more if the property is an energy-efficient type of property."

The tax savings become more significant if you are a real-estate professional

If you qualify as a "real-estate professional," you could reduce your overall tax liability even more. This status allows you to offset rental against other income.

"Generally, if you're just a regular person like me who has a job as an accountant and is investing in real estate on the side, then the losses that I'm talking about offset the rental income from that property — but I can't take that loss from that rental and offset it with my W-2 income," explained Espinosa.

That's because they're two unrelated activities. However, if she was considered a real estate professional, "it all becomes one big activity," she said. "Those big losses from that cost segregation now can offset the commissions that you earn as a real estate agent or whatever other income you earn in real estate because now it's no longer passive in nature."

Being a real-estate agent automatically deems you a professional, but if you don't have that license, you may qualify if you meet certain requirements, including spending more than 750 hours on real-estate activities.

"I feel like this is an often abused area," noted Espinosa. "You can have other jobs but you just have to be able to show that to the IRS if ever audited that the real-estate business really is your main thing."

She recommends documenting everything, from how you spend your working hours to the mileage you drove to visit properties, even if you aren't a real estate professional: "If you're holding real estate and renting it out and taking deductions on it, you should always document everything and always track your expenses."

If you meet the requirements, "Then, of course, designate yourself as a real-estate professional," she said. "It obviously has huge benefits. But then also be aware that this is a highly scrutinized area by the IRS too, so that's why you want to have your documentation in place."

• There are a variety of ways to invest in real estate beyond buying rentals.
• Investors are using private money lending, build-to-rent, and syndication to build wealth.
• Private money lending and syndication are relatively hands-off while offering good returns.

One of the most straightforward ways to get into real estate is to buy and hold a rental. Another popular strategy is flipping properties.

However, there are multiple ways to invest in real estate.

Business Insider has spoken with investors who are using less traditional strategies to hit financial independence. Here are three.

1. Private money lending. If you want to participate in the real estate space without actually buying and managing properties, one option is lending capital to other investors.

It's one strategy that financially independent couple Carl and Mindy Jensen are using to continue to grow their net worth. Having spent years buying property and doing time-consuming "live-in flips," they appreciate how passive lending can be.

The way it works is they'll lend other real-estate investors' money to rehab a house, for example, and earn interest on the loan. The terms are determined by the lender and borrower and vary from deal to deal. The Jensens said that they're earning between 10 and 12% from lending.

"The private lending generates such a nice return that it's difficult to be like, 'No, we don't want to have the easy money. Let's go do another live-in flip,'" Mindy told BI.

2. Build-to-rent. Brannon Potts likes the idea of owning rentals but has found it challenging to make the numbers work in his area: "The resale market is a little bit harder to pencil out and work financially."

His solution is to build his rentals. He admitted that the strategy is "a little more niche," and time-consuming. He's designing the layout and working with a builder to bring it to life — a process that can take up to nine months for a multi-family property. "But I'm seeing a lot more financial reward from it at this moment than doing the resale side."

As of March 2025, Potts has 10 completed doors and said he's averaging $330 a month per door. That's about $40,000 a year of relatively passive income, as his properties are new builds and don't require much maintenance or attention. He expects to hit financial independence once he gets to 20 doors, which he plans to do in the next five years and before turning 60.

He's earning more than just financial reward.

"I love building — to be able to put my fingerprint on a property," he said. "I really wanted to be proud of what we did so that our tenants got something wonderful that they could live in and hopefully take better care of it because it's just a little bit nicer than the ordinary."

3. Real-estate syndication. With real-estate syndication deals, a group of investors pools their capital to purchase a single property managed by the syndicator.

New England-based investor and self-made millionaire Tess Waresmith owns rentals, but she started investing in syndications in 2023 and says the strategy comes with unique advantages: It opens the door to bigger investment opportunities and is much more passive than managing rentals.

"I check out the deal and make sure it's something that feels good to me, and then when I invest the money, I'm hands-off," she said. "I'm not involved in the day-to-day decision-making of the property. But as an investor, I get to benefit from investing in the larger unit properties."

The Jensens, who are in two syndication deals, also appreciate the hands-off nature, but it can be difficult to predict your returns.

"The people running these syndications will tell you they're expecting numbers, and it's infrequently accurate," said Carl. Keep in mind that the syndicator is "probably using their best, sunny-day scenarios."

That said, "every syndication we've had has actually outperformed the original numbers."

• Box Chicken opened its ghost kitchen, serving Japanese soul food, in Los Angeles in 2024.
• Chef Noah Clark sees the ghost kitchen as a launchpad to a brick-and-mortar space.
• This article is part of "Made to Order," a series highlighting the business strategies driving today's food industry.

Noah Clark grew up eating California rolls, collard greens, and chicken katsu — a multiethnic cuisine that his Japanese American mother, Reiko Clark, and aunt, Maggie Antoine, developed in their hometown of Los Angeles.

"We both ended up marrying Black guys — and raising these Blackanese babies," Reiko told Business Insider. "They are literally Japanese and African American, so they were raised on what we call Japanese soul food."

The sisters brought their home-cooked food to the South in the late 1990s when they moved to Atlanta and opened their first restaurant. Clark was 8 at the time and earned an allowance — "$20 every two weeks," he recalled — helping around the kitchen.

When he was old enough to take on more responsibility, his aunt Maggie, who developed the recipes — including the heart of the menu, the Japanese chicken tender — assumed the role of "yoda" in the kitchen, he said. "She called me Luke all the time."

The restaurant expanded to multiple locations throughout Atlanta, but after a messy split with their business partner and main investor, the family brought their fast-casual concept back to Los Angeles in 2024 when they launched Box Chicken out of a small space in CloudKitchens.

They operate as a ghost kitchen, which Clark likens to an apartment complex: "People have to move out because they couldn't pay the rent and I have neighbors. But instead of individuals paying rent, restaurants occupy the units."

I spoke to Reiko and Noah from their 200-square-foot kitchen space on a Wednesday afternoon in February. Reiko and I sat on stools while Noah fulfilled lunch orders — mostly their signature box meal featuring their take on chicken katsu and sides such as Japanese rice, potato salad, and green beans with a shoyu dip — that trickled in over the course of our 75-minute conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity.

Tell me about the decision to relocate from Atlanta and open shop in Los Angeles.

Noah Clark: We were thinking about doing a completely different concept because I was ready to move on.

Reiko Clark: We were burned. We were really hurt.

Noah: I was probably the most scarred from it out of all my siblings because when I graduated, it was my life. I dedicated everything to it, I was working 80 hours a week, so I did not want to reopen. I was ready to move on from it.

What changed your mind?

Noah: We were having these weekly family meetings about what we wanted to do and my sister was like, "I feel like this is stupid. Why are we talking about opening another concept?" I said, "If you guys want to [do chicken], that's cool, but I'm out.'" I was very stern.

After everyone left the meeting, one of my other aunts was like, "Noah, can I talk to you?" And she just said, "You'd be a fool not taking advantage of this chicken tender. It's a gift from God. I've seen how people react to it. It's something that you should not pass up on."

Reiko: That's all he had to hear: "It's a gift from God."

Why did you choose to start as a ghost kitchen?

Noah: When we were case-studying places we saw Main Chick. We looked up their story and they started as a ghost kitchen, and they have like eight locations now.

We knew we didn't want to have crazy up-front costs. We knew once people catch wind of what we have, it's just a matter of time. But I did realize, probably two weeks into being open, that we need a brick-and-mortar because customer service is such an important part of the business, and just being able to sit down and eat it fresh is also important.

Did you design your space or did the ghost kitchen come outfitted?

Noah: The only things this place came with were the sinks you see right there and that one silver shelf.

Reiko: And the hood. They provide the hood, and that's a big-ticket item.

Noah: Everything else we had to bring in, which is great for us because we can do anything and customize it completely. Opening up multiple in Atlanta, we got really good at efficiency and laying out kitchens.

I imagine operating out of a ghost kitchen helps lower costs.

Noah: It's a one-man kitchen. I don't have labor.

Reiko: And that's what keeps the costs down. For catering, we bring in extra help.

Noah: The rent's not crazy. We were looking at a brick-and-mortar on Sawtelle and the rent was like 16 grand or something, maybe even higher. It's like, how are these places surviving? And they're not. They're always closing. So, it is definitely cheaper.

Reiko: And they include your internet, your electricity, water, gas — all utilities are included, so that helped.

Tell me more about what you miss about the brick-and-mortar.

Reiko: We're used to being in the front of house — talking to people, chatting them up, and really sales pitching every day.

Noah: Talking people out of certain items when it's their first time. On our menu I have the option of doing no sauce. This one always gets on my nerves. In Atlanta, we would always be like, "No, get a sauce. The chicken tender isn't tender if you don't put sauce on it." I can't have that conversation.

Reiko: Can't convince them.

Noah: The way I try to convince them, I put next to the 'No Sauce' option: "Don't do it, trust me!" And they still don't pick a sauce, and it drives me crazy because they're not going to have the experience I want them to have for their first time.

Noah: I have regulars, but I only know them by what I see on the ticket. I can't actually talk to them. I was leaving notes for a while just to people I saw all the time, like one guy who ordered three times in two days.

How many orders do you get a day?

Noah: A slow day now for us is 15; 20 to 30 is a good day; when we have catering, sometimes it's 40 to 50. Our goal is for 30 to 40 to be normal, and we'll get there eventually.

We've seen a bump recently, but the fires really hurt us. The holidays always hurt no matter what because people are saving and not going out to eat. December is always slower.

Our slowest day of the week is Saturday. People are going out to eat. They're not really ordering in anymore.

Reiko: The thought is, because COVID is over, I'm going out. Why would I want to eat at home on the weekends? So that's why we need to be in a brick and mortar.

Noah, what does a typical day look like for you?

Noah: I get here around 9:30 to 10:30, depending on what I have to do. If we have catering sometimes we'll be here at like 6:30 or 7 in the morning, depending on how big it is.

I get here, turn the fires on, start getting through my prep list and what I need to do. I try to get the big things out of the way before the orders start coming in.

I have yet to see a serious rush, which I am looking forward to. I love it when it's like that. I miss the stressful environment. I miss seeing a line. I miss seeing all the tickets printed. It was really fun when we all were drowning because we were all suffering together.

I'm looking forward to when we get back to that — when I have a line and we're calling out and I'm hearing "heard" or "behind." That word right there. I do miss that.

What's the future of Box Chicken?

Noah: The main goal for us is to have a brick-and-mortar. I still like the concept of ghost kitchens; I just think it's made for restaurants that are already established and that want to get their food out further.

Starbucks, for example, was having trouble with Uber Eats and DoorDash because they were getting flooded with all their orders, so they pivoted, partnered with CloudKitchens, specifically, and stopped letting their locations accept Uber Eats and DoorDash. It actually increased their sales because they were able to make more coffee in-store. So, for something like that, it's perfect. The Starbucks CloudKitchens are probably killing it, but their main locations are doing better because they don't have as much on their plate and they even take care of their regulars.

I think our future is to have at least one brick-and-mortar and then little [ghost kitchen] satellites.

I would love for us to be known for one location in Los Angeles but be all over the world.

This article is part of "Made to Order," a series highlighting the business strategies driving today's food industry.

On a good day, Noah Clark prepares 30 bento-box-style meals — but the Box Chicken chef won't see a single customer.

His restaurant, which serves the Japanese soul food he grew up eating, is a "ghost kitchen," meaning he fulfills online orders only. He breads and fries chicken and carefully fills each box with sides, including his grandmother's potato salad recipe, out of a 200-square-foot space that I visited on a Wednesday afternoon in February.

Clark's tablet chimes every time an order comes in. He works carefully but efficiently, packing, sealing, and labeling a substantial box of fresh food in about three minutes. The final step is placing the order on a robot, which delivers the bag to a smart locker on the first floor where an Uber Eats or Doordash driver will retrieve it.

Box Chicken operates out of a West Los Angeles CloudKitchens location. The three-story building houses a handful of other restaurants — Clark's "neighbors," as he refers to them. "It's like an apartment complex — people have to move out because they couldn't pay the rent."

That's happened a lot lately, he told me, and his part of the neighborhood on the second floor is eerily quiet. If it weren't for the interview, his kitchen would be even quieter. It's a one-man operation.

In some ways, the solitude is nice, Clark said, "but, as a business owner, I see where it's hurting us." Without a storefront, he lacks visibility and brand recognition. He has to rely on creative, grassroots marketing tactics, such as approaching strangers in public and asking them to taste-test his chicken on camera for a social media campaign. That's how I first heard of Box Chicken — on the Santa Monica Promenade when Clark was handing out free samples.

Running a digital restaurant

Clark, 34, has been working in restaurants since he was 8 and earned an allowance helping out at his family's chicken restaurant in Atlanta. His mother, Reiko Clark, and aunt, Maggie Antoine, opened their first store in the late 1990s. They closed during the financial crisis in 2008 but reopened nearly a decade later in 2017, at which point Clark was old enough to take on more responsibility in the kitchen.

The family business was beloved, busy, and eventually expanded to multiple locations throughout Atlanta. The only slow day of the year was the Super Bowl, Clark said: "Not one order came through because everyone's locked in." It's different in Los Angeles. Box Chicken opened its ghost kitchen doors last year and doesn't yet have a cult following. "I miss the stressful environment, I miss seeing a line, I miss seeing all the tickets printed," he said.

However, the smaller kitchen space, which Clark designed and outfitted with equipment himself, has allowed him to open and survive in an expensive and competitive market that he never wanted to be in. His family was forced to sell their original restaurant in Atlanta to their business partner and main investor after a messy split, and the noncompete agreement limited them to operating in two states: California and Hawaii, which, as a restaurateur, are "the two hardest places to open," Clark said. He and his family chose to bring their food to LA, where Reiko and Maggie grew up and originally conceived their chicken tender recipe.

While studying successful LA-based restaurants, Clark came across Main Chick, which began as a ghost kitchen before expanding to multiple locations and becoming a fixture of the food scene in Southern California. He was convinced a similar strategy could work for Box Chicken.

Running hypothetical numbers solidified his decision.

"We were looking at a brick-and-mortar on Sawtelle and the rent was like 16 grand or something, maybe even higher. It's like, how are these places surviving? And they're not. They're always closing," Clark said. "So, it is definitely cheaper."

Plus, as a one-man kitchen, he eliminates a major industry expense: labor.

Zeus Ferrini, the cofounder of the Los Angeles-based pop-up The Arepa Stand, said that's his main expense. "Most of your money goes to pay your employees."

The challenges of operating without a brick-and-mortar

Ferrini and his sister, Mercedes Rojas, started selling traditional food from Venezuela, their home country, at the Mar Vista Farmers Market in 2019. Six years later, they have 12 staff members who help them operate in six different farmers markets.

They don't have a brick-and-mortar, either — they prep in a shared commercial kitchen space that they rent by the hour — but their issue isn't a lack of interaction with customers. It's scalability.

The pop-up model allowed them to launch on a shoestring budget — they spent about $400 on ingredients and a couple of coolers for their first market — and test their concept before putting up more of their own savings and quitting their jobs. For about a year, they did all of their prep out of the kitchen of their shared apartment before transitioning to the commercial space. While renting a shared kitchen two days a week is cheaper than having their own storefront, it's hard to tell how much money it's really saving.

"We do prep Thursday and Friday, but we're not actually making any money those days," Ferrini said. They do some catering, but the majority of their revenue comes in on the three days of the week they're at the markets: Saturday, Sunday, and Tuesday. "It's not like a regular restaurant where they're making the prep in the back, but they're also selling at the same time. That's the downside."

Plus, their market revenue is capped. "You can only sell so much that one day," Ferrini said.

As a pop-up restaurant, it's easy to get "stuck," added Rojas, who attended culinary school in Miami and spent a decade training under chefs at various restaurants across the US before opening The Arepa Stand. Setting up and breaking down multiple stands is time-consuming and logistically complex.

"It deviates from opening the restaurant," she told me while cooking arepas and frying eggs from behind their booth at the Playa Vista Farmers Market on a Saturday morning in March. She'd typically be driving back and forth between their weekend markets and overseeing operations but a staff shortage meant she was an integral member of the three-person team cranking out arepas from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. that particular day.

A hybrid approach

Gus May and Ana-Maria Jaramillo, who made the leap from a nomadic pop-up in 2019 to a storefront in 2022, can't imagine continuing to grow their breakfast taco concept in Washington, DC, without a permanent space.

"Having a brick-and-mortar presence is absolutely essential to La Tejana's longevity," May said. "The pop-up model is great as far as keeping overhead low, testing out your product, and for growing your brand, but the amount of work required to pull off a single pop-up is far greater than the work required to open up for service at a brick-and-mortar."

It's also created more consistent revenue — "you could be planning a huge Saturday sales day and a storm swings through and slashes your projected sales by 80%" — and more revenue, May said. However, their expenses, particularly labor, are much higher. "We went from two part-time employees to a staff of 18 in a matter of a few months. Our profit margin percentages are less, but our overall revenue is way up. I think this is probably true across the industry."

Both Box Chicken and The Arepa Stand hope to open their first storefronts in Los Angeles this year. When they do, they plan to keep at least a version of their current setups.

The farmers market pop-ups will help get people in the door, Ferrini said. "Since we're in different parts of LA, you can funnel all those people coming to the farmers market to the brick-and-mortar — and that's the plan."

Clark envisions Box Chicken locations all over the world, with ghost kitchens helping fulfill online orders and free up time and space for the physical locations to take care of its regular customers.

They have big dreams but aren't delusional. Clark is reminded more often than he'd like that sustaining a profitable restaurant is incredibly difficult as he watches his ghost kitchen neighbors shutter their doors. For Ferrini and Rojas, making the numbers work is so challenging that they've continued doing pop-ups for six years while dreaming of an eventual brick-and-mortar.

In the meantime, they'll keep making hefty, colorful arepas.

"Even though it's a hard industry to be in, it's also a very beautiful industry to be in at the same time," said Ferrini. "It's nice to see the different people around that love your product and stop you on the street and are like, 'Oh my God, we love your product.'"

• Business partners Mike Gorius and Kevin Hart invest in real estate in Louisville.
• Gorius, who started investing remotely, was looking for a growing but affordable market.
• Louisville has proven to be steady, avoiding extreme market fluctuations seen in other areas.

Home flippers Mike Gorius and Kevin Hart have found their sweet spot: Ranch-style houses — ideally three-bed, one-bath — in Louisville, Kentucky.

"That's probably our favorite house to do. They're just super easy to renovate, most of them are 1950 or newer, and usually there's nothing too crazy about them," Hart told Business Insider. "Once you start getting into houses that were built in the 1900s or earlier, which you see a lot of closer to downtown in West Louisville, who knows what's happened to that house over the past 100 years? You just encounter a lot of issues."

The business partners also wholesale real estate and buy and hold long-term rentals. In 2024, they did 50 transactions between wholesales, wholetails, and flips, and they own more than 20 rental properties throughout the Lousiville area. BI verified their property ownership and deal history by looking at settlement statements and closing documents.

They like their market for a few different reasons. Hart, who was born and raised in Louisville, knows the city intimately. But Gorius, who is from Massachusetts and spent years living in Phoenix, chose to invest in Kentucky's largest city from afar. He's relocating to Louisville now that their real estate company has taken off and they have three employees to manage.

Gorius, whose first deal was a duplex that he turned into a long-term rental, looked at a few key factors when considering markets to invest in.

1. Affordability. Ultimately, the reason he didn't invest in the market he was living in, Phoenix, was because of the cost.

According to the National Association of Realtors, the median sales price of existing single-family homes in the Phoenix metro area in the fourth quarter of 2024 was $476,400. In Louisville, it was $279,200.

2. Presence of major companies. "It's a hub for UPS. Ford also has a plant there — a couple of years ago, when I was looking, they had just announced that they were going to add a second plant there and that's still in the process of being built," he said. "If these massive, massive companies are willing to invest in this city then it's definitely good enough for little old me."

3. Vibe of the city. Visiting the area sealed the deal for Gorius, who enjoyed the mild weather and general vibe: "Everyone was super, super nice, just kind and saying hello and everyone was willing to help out. That's what drew me to the market."

Hart weighed in on what he likes specifically about his native city.

"We have four seasons but, at the same time, we don't have natural disasters like other places. We don't have hurricanes, we don't have wildfires, we have the occasional tornado, but that's super rare in the actual city," he said. "At the same time, we've been super insulated from all these crazy highs and lows that a lot of big cities have seen, especially over the past five, six years."

For example, "San Francisco, or really any California town, saw 40%, 50% appreciation — these crazy jumps on these properties — so that when interest rates went up two years ago, they also saw 40%, 50% drops in prices," Hart explained. Louisville, which he said saw appreciation between 10% and 14% in that same timeframe, didn't have that issue. "It's just been super steady so no one's having to jump all around for crazy deals."

That could change, he said, pointing to other markets in the south that are booming: "Austin's insane, Nashville's insane. Louisville has stayed pretty steady, but it might turn into that one day. We got a Topgolf a couple of years ago, we've had a lot of other infrastructure changes, so maybe we'll get super popular like that.

"But, at this point, it's just a good place to live, and you can still buy a house for under $250,000."

• Grant Sabatier built wealth by saving and investing the majority of his money in index funds.
• He'll always recommend index funds, but he also thinks people should be investing in themselves.
• Specifically, he advises developing AI skills.

Grant Sabatier understands better than most the power of index-fund investing: The strategy helped him build a seven-figure net worth and hit financial independence by age 30.

Today, at 40, he still primarily invests in index funds.

"Ninety-plus percent of my assets are still just in a Vanguard total stock market index fund. I've been keeping it simple since I started investing in 2010 and we've all seen what the market has done over that time," he told Business Insider. "So, just being a passive investor in that sense has continued to pay dividends. I really haven't changed a whole lot, and I still stand by the strategy."

The self-made millionaire, author, and new bookstore owner will always recommend buying index funds. But there's one, perhaps overlooked investment that he recommends additionally: "Invest in your skills because skills are future currency."

Skills allow you to adapt to a world that's "changing faster than ever," he said. "Having those skills and keeping those skills up to date is something that you often don't have to spend much money on — it just takes some time — but it is really, really valuable. I would double down on that."

Specifically, he'd invest time into learning about artificial intelligence — how it works and how you can leverage it.

"AI is poised to transform most industries in ways we are only beginning to predict. Savvy entrepreneurs are already looking for ways to adopt and adapt so they're not left behind," he writes in his new book, "Inner Entrepreneur," which he describes as a blueprint he's designed after 15 years of launching, acquiring, and selling business.

Sabatier, who built wealth by buying, scaling, and selling websites, has always leveraged technology to save him time and money.

"We use technology to manage our payroll, health insurance, 401(k), human resource support, podcast editing, email funnels, and more," he writes. "AI is making this even more accessible and affordable."

Learning AI is beneficial to any working individual, not just entrepreneurs and business owners.

"More recruiters and companies are going to be adding those questions about AI fluency and experience to their interviews and screenings," he told BI. "The more you know about it and the more well-versed you are, the more attractive of a full-time job candidate you are, so it's just as useful in your full-time job hunting as it is pursuing entrepreneurship."

He acknowledges that AI is a massive space and "it's impossible to keep track of everything, so try to pick a lane and spend a couple of hours a week experimenting with one or two tools just so you can have a conversation and stay relevant."

Choosing to invest in yourself by honing a skill doesn't mean abandoning your investment portfolio.

"You should simultaneously be building your skills while you're growing your investment portfolio," he said, which is easier to do if you simplify your investment strategy. "It's pretty easy to passively invest in an index fund. Use all that additional time you're saving from tracking individual stocks to learn some new skills or beef up the skills that you have. The world's just changing so rapidly. I'd rather future proof my skills than add complexity to my investments."

• Grant Sabatier believes there's never been a better time to be an entrepreneur.
• Building a business is less risky now with lower barriers and democratized knowledge.
• He recommends starting with building skills around AI.

If you haven't started a side business or built a secondary income stream, Grant Sabatier wants you to reconsider.

"We all know that no jobs are secure," the investor, author, and creator of Millennial Money told Business Insider. Why not put your future in your own hands?

Plus, it's an excellent time to get into the business of business.

"There's never been a better time to be an entrepreneur," Sabatier declares in his latest book "Inner Entrepreneur," which he describes as a blueprint he's designed, having launched seven businesses, acquired three, and sold one.

BI spoke to the entrepreneur, whose latest venture is an independent bookstore he opened in the Clintonville neighborhood of Columbus, about why the time is ripe for entrepreneurship and what businesses he would build if he had to start from scratch.

The barriers to entry have never been lower

It's a lot easier and cheaper to start a business in 2025 than ever.

"Before, you had to really stop and figure out everything and maybe apprentice or put down a lot of money and take a big risk," said Sabatier. "But now there are just so many blueprints available and so many ways to learn. Really successful entrepreneurs are sharing a lot more than they ever have, so as knowledge has been more democratized the barrier is just a lot lower. You can evaluate a business idea with a lot more information than you ever could have before."

In fact, one of the biggest misconceptions about entrepreneurship is that it's "super risky," he said. "I argue that having a full-time job, in many cases, is often riskier than having a business that you built yourself. Because, at least with your own business, you can control more of the variables than if you're working for someone else."

It's also cheaper to start and scale a business than it ever has been. If you're starting with consulting, which is how Sabatier began his entrepreneurial journey, "you really don't need much money at all," he said. "You might need a website, which you can now put up using AI for like $15, and you can set up social media profiles for free."

What he would do if he had to start from scratch in 2025: Lean into AI

Until Sabatier opened Clintonville Books, which he considers "more as an investment in my neighborhood and in my happiness than as a capital investment," he had exclusively built and scaled online businesses.

If he lost everything and had to start over in 2025, "I would definitely learn how to build different AI agents and use them to code software products and different AI tools," he said — and he predicts it would be easier to get started than it was in 2010 when he got laid off from his 9-to-5 and tried entrepreneurship out of necessity.

"I had to learn how to build websites from scratch. You can now use AI to learn how to build websites, and within a few hours, you can build a simple platform and then build a tool that ideally has a subscription component to it."

If launching an AI company feels daunting, a more manageable first step is to learn about artificial intelligence, how it works, and how you can leverage it.

"Skills are future currency. Skills are ultimately what allow you to adapt and build resilience, and, as we know, the world's just changing faster than ever," he said, emphasizing that if he were to add one skill to his repertoire today, it would be AI. "Do your best to stay up to date on it. It's impossible to keep track of everything, so try to pick a lane and spend a couple of hours a week experimenting with the tools just so you can have a conversation and you can stay relevant."

It'll also be helpful in a corporate setting if you're job hunting.

"More recruiters and companies are going to be adding those questions about AI fluency and experience to their interviews and screenings," he said. "The more you know about it and the more well-versed you are, the more attractive of a full-time job candidate you are, so it's just as useful in your full-time job hunting as it is pursuing entrepreneurship."

• Kevin Hart accumulated a lot of debt after opening his own insurance branch.
• He got out of the red by flipping homes and now does real estate full-time.
• Hart recommends new investors get started with a flip, but cautions against costly mistakes.

Kevin Hart found himself in the red when, after working as a sales rep for State Farm for a few years, he opened his own branch in 2017.

"I was dead broke and at a failing insurance business," the Louisville native told Business Insider. "I had a $50,000 business loan I had to pay back at some point. I had a bunch of credit card debt from trying to get that business going."

Hart wasn't in a financial hole for long. In 2019, he flipped his first home. He said it profited about $30,000, which he split with his business partner at the time. Before the end of that summer, he purchased two more flips and left insurance to work in real estate full time.

He said that his success flipping, and later wholesaling, helped him pay off his debt in two years: "There's not much else out there where you can make lump sum checks to help you pay off that debt."

Hart now works alongside a different business partner, Mike Gorius. They formed an official business partnership in 2024 under the Joe Homebuyer franchise and, in their first full year working together, did 50 transactions between wholesales, wholetails, and flips. They also own more than 20 rental properties, including short-, mid-, and long-term, in the Lousiville area. BI verified their property ownership and deal history by looking at settlement statements and closing documents.

They agree that rookie investors should consider starting with a flip for a "quick capital boost to help you get going," said Hart, whose two-pronged real estate strategy involves flipping and wholesaling to bring in cash, and then buying and holding rentals.

Of course, when it comes to flipping homes, there's always risk involved. To minimize risk and avoid losing money on your first flip, Hart and Gorius highlighted three costly mistakes.

1. Hiring the first contractor you find. Unless you're planning on doing all of the renovation work yourself, you're going to need to work with a general contractor — and finding the right person for the job is key to a successful flip. This is the person you'll be relying on to transform a fixer-upper into a marketable home.

Avoid selecting "some random contractor you find online," said Hart. "You definitely don't want to hire the cheapest one you find. They're probably cheap and available for a reason."

Instead, interview multiple contractors, call references, and look at their previous work. The more due diligence, the better off you'll be.

Keep in mind that there are residential contractors and contractors who work with investors. You want to work with the latter because "they understand what flippers are looking for," said Hart.

2. Biting off more than you can chew. "Don't take on a project that's way bigger than you can handle," said Hart, acknowledging that it's easier said than done, especially if you draw inspiration from HGTV shows that tend to feature full gut renovations. "That's not what you want on your first flip."

If he was starting from scratch in Louisville, he said he'd target a 3-bedroom, 1-bath ranch-style house that could use cosmetic upgrades: "Floors, paint, kitchen cabinets, update the bathroom and a few minor things like light fixtures and call it a day. You don't want to start a huge construction project when you have no experience doing construction."

Stick to the basics, added Gorius: "Don't pretend that you're the one moving into this house and start putting finishes on there that are overpriced or don't make sense. Stick with what works, talk to contractors, and walk other people's flips to see what finishes and paint colors and materials they're using, because they're doing that for a reason."

Their goal with a flip is to create a home that appeals to the most amount of people possible, which means neutral colors and flooring.

"In reality, if you're doing a lot of flips, flipping is a pretty boring business," said Hart. "You're using the same paint colors, you're using similar flooring. Whatever's in style that year, we're like, 'Okay, for the next five houses, this is what we're doing.'"

3. Running your numbers too optimistically. Assume the project will cost more money and take more time than you think.

"Get really good at running your numbers, and be realistic about it," said Hart, who built his own flipping calculator in Excel. That means, if you're running comps and see that one home in your market sold for $250,000 but the rest are selling for $220,000, "you can't get too excited and think, 'my house is going to be worth 250.' More likely, it'll be 220 or 230. Don't try to force the numbers to work."

Allow yourself a financial cushion because, especially as a new flipper, "something inevitably is going to go wrong or you're going to miss something in the rehab," he said. "It always happens. You can't go out there and project a flip is going to make $10,000 off the bat, and all of a sudden, you buy it and miss this $10,000 foundation issue and now you're in the hole. So you just have to make sure you're buying correctly and getting your rehab cost as accurate as possible."

• I attended Day 1 of the One Rental at a Time (ORaaT) conference in Las Vegas.
• The real estate conference incorporated guest speakers, Q&A, and networking.
• My main takeaway was: Who you surround yourself with — your 'social sphere,' as one speaker put it — matters.

When interviewing successful real-estate investors and asking their advice for rookies, a common suggestion is to find a meetup group or join an online community — do something that gets you in the same room as people who have already done what you hope to achieve.

The advice made sense to me conceptually, but I didn't fully understand it until I experienced it.

In February, I attended Day 1 of the "One Rental at a Time" conference, a two-day event hosted by investor, author, and early retiree Michael Zuber. I drove from my home in Los Angeles to the venue in Las Vegas on a Saturday morning and arrived highly caffeinated just before the opening remarks at 8 a.m.

Having never attended a conference, I had no idea what to expect. I was there as a journalist — to keep my finger on the pulse, talk to investors, and generally observe — rather than jump-start a career in real estate. But, after 10 hours in a room with hundreds of real-estate enthusiasts, it was impossible not to at least flirt with the idea of owning property in some capacity.

Here's what my day looked like.

By a quarter to 8, the line of attendees had spilled out the door and into the parking lot.

I found the 8 a.m. start time somewhat surprising — that's an early Saturday regardless of where you're commuting from — until I arrived. There was energetic chatter. People were excited. And, of course, they were! They're hooked on real estate. They listen to podcasts like "BiggerPockets" and consume hours of YouTube content from investors like their host, Zuber, and other speakers on the agenda. They're spending their own money and an entire weekend of their time to be in this conference room. I'm sure they wouldn't have minded a 7 a.m. start.

I checked in, topped off my cup of coffee, and settled into one of the folding chairs neatly arranged for the 300 or so attendees.

The format incorporated guest speakers, Q&A, and networking. A financially independent couple kicked things off, discussing how they went from not being able to afford groceries to building a robust portfolio of rental properties over a span of two decades. They were followed by a YouTuber who spoke about the power of content creation.

We broke for 20 minutes — I chatted with a woman looking to buy her first rental in Tucson — before hearing the self-proclaimed "lazy landlord" discuss his unconventional but effective strategies, from writing leases that end in the winter to looking for properties that aren't located in good school districts. His reasoning is, "You age out your tenants if you're targeting good school districts," he said. When their kids graduate, for example, they may move, "so I specifically look for places where tenants are going to be for a long time." Plus, good school districts tend to have higher property taxes, he added.

Following the morning speakers was a 90-minute "millionaire panel," which was essentially a Q&A. Attendees lined up to the left of the stage and, one by one, took the mic to ask about general market trends or specific questions about their individual properties and dilemmas.

At 12:30, a two-hour lunch (tacos and churros) and networking session commenced. The venue was open seating, and the round tables encouraged conversation flow. This is when things started to heat up.

When you put like-minded people who share similar goals in the same room — or at the same table — it creates stimulating conversation that further propels the preexisting buzz of energy. I imagine my tablemates felt the way I would if I found myself in a room with other tennis nerds who, like me, eat, sleep, and breathe the sport. Though my passion for real estate doesn't run as deep as many of the attendees, the energy was contagious.

The conversation at my eight-person table jumped from strategies for remodeling a kitchen on a budget to helping one investor weigh the pros and cons of selling off one of her rentals. The group consisted of investors at different stages in their journey, including a widow with the goal of growing from two rentals to five (one for each of her grandchildren) and an investor in his 30s who is building a portfolio of cash-flowing rentals so he can retire early and tackle extreme endurance challenges like hiking the Appalachian Trail.

This is when the advice of surrounding yourself with other people looking to do what you're trying to do clicked. I saw networks expanding, connections forming, and momentum building. One woman told me that she could never talk about real estate with her friends because they were indifferent and borderline unsupportive. In this room, though, she could ask any question she wanted and be met with support and feedback.

After lunch, we settled in for three more sessions, including the keynote speaker: Graham Stephan, an investor and popular YouTuber with nearly 5 million subscribers. There were audible gasps in the audience when Zuber introduced the surprise guest. I imagined how I'd feel if Roger Federer unexpectedly came on the stage.

Each of the day's speakers gave good, tangible advice about how to acquire your first property and grow your portfolio — look at listings in your market every single day, don't obsess over interest rates, and buy and hold for the long term — but my main takeaway didn't have anything to do with acquisition strategies or market trends.

This is what stuck for me: Who you surround yourself with — your "social sphere," as one speaker referred to it — matters. It sounds simplistic and a little clichéd, and it's something that we all know to be true, but knowing and experiencing are two different things.

If you're a prospective real-estate investor, being in a room with other investors — whether it's a virtual room by way of an online community or a physical room by way of a meetup or conference — does a couple of powerful things:

One, you learn — from people who are smarter and more successful than you.

Two, you connect — with people who could become your business partner, lender, wholesaler, or client.

Three, you gain momentum — perhaps just enough to finally take that first step.

Stephan's keynote wrapped around 6 p.m. and Day 1 concluded with a two-hour dinner. That's around when I ducked out to jot down some notes and reflect on the day. Had I been looking to buy my first rental, I absolutely would have stayed.

• Business partners Kevin Hart and Mike Gorius have built a robust and diverse real estate portfolio.
• Their strategy involves flipping and wholesaling for cash and holding rentals for long-term gains.
• Their advice to new investors is to start with a flip to bring in cash and then expand to rentals.

Kevin Hart started thinking about real estate as a viable business in college when he was renting a duplex with his fraternity brothers.

"We had both sides, there were 10 guys, and we were all paying 500 bucks a month to this landlord," the University of Kentucky grad told Business Insider. It seemed like a relatively simple way to bring in thousands of dollars a month, "so I always had that in the back of my head."

He graduated, started a career in accounting, and found his mind wandering as he sat in his cubicle all day "mindlessly sending spreadsheets," he said. "I was daydreaming about real estate or other businesses, thinking, 'How do I get out of here?'"

His curiosity led him to websites like BiggerPockets. He learned about various investing strategies, "but I put real estate on the back burner because I just thought it was too hard to get started. I didn't have any money and didn't think I could do it."

A career pivot to insurance in 2017 ended up putting Hart in the red. He started working as an independent contractor for State Farm and took out a business loan to help with marketing expenses.

The one major silver lining was that it introduced him to home flippers in his area in Louisville.

"They were clients of mine on the insurance side and motivated me to flip a house and see if it's really for me," said Hart. "I started working with some local wholesalers, found a good deal, and bought this first house with $8,000 down using a hard money lender. My wife was super freaked out about what I was doing because I'd never done it before. Luckily, it went really well."

He said he and his first business partner bought the property for about $70,000 in March 2019, put roughly $40,000 of work into it, and sold it for around $160,000.

"Together we split probably $30,000 of profit," said Hart. He was hooked, bought two more flips before the end of the summer, and quit his job later that same year. "I had these paychecks coming in that were triple what I was paying myself at State Farm as a self-employed insurance agent. That was super exciting."

Hart's current business partner, Mike Gorius, took a different approach at the beginning of his real estate career, which began as a side project to help alleviate credit card debt and car loans. He started by purchasing a duplex in Louisville, despite living in Phoenix at the time, and turned it into a long-term rental.

"I spent about $35,000 on the down payment of my own money. When I got my first rental check, the profit was like $400," said Gorius, who worked in sales and recruiting throughout his corporate career. "I remember thinking, 'Oh man, it's going to take a lot of $35,000 down payments for me to retire off this."

Gorius and Hart, who initially connected when Gorius was looking to buy in the Louisville market, have been doing deals together since 2022. They formed an official business partnership in 2024 under the Joe Homebuyer franchise and, in their first full year working together, did 50 transactions between wholesales, wholetails, and flips. They also own more than 20 rental properties, including short-, mid-, and long-term, in the Lousiville area. BI verified their property ownership and deal history by looking at settlement statements and closing documents.

Thanks to real estate, Hart says he's completely rid of bad debt, and Gorius, who quit his corporate job in 2023 to work in real estate full-time, expects to have paid off his in 2025.

"There's not much else out there where you can make lump sum checks to help you pay off that debt," said Hart. "It's a good business to help you build your savings account."

Their next major milestone is financial freedom and the option to never have to work for income again, though they're not the types to be on the golf course five days a week. They said the flexibility is more intriguing.

A two-pronged wealth-building strategy: Flip to bring in cash, then buy and hold rentals

Hart and Gorius have narrowed in on a real estate strategy that works for them — and they encourage new investors to use a similar approach: Start with a flip for a cash infusion and then use that money to buy and hold rentals.

"If you have 10 grand you can typically go find a deal, put the down payment down, and hopefully you're making $15,000 to $30,000. That's a quick capital boost to help you get going," said Hart. "If you start flipping a few houses a year, whether you've got a W2 or not, that's definitely going to put you in the right direction to be able to do other things like buying rentals."

It's easier said than done.

A common and costly mistake in the flipping world is going with the first contractor you find, rather than interviewing a few.

"Try to get referrals from other flippers. That way, hopefully, you're not getting burned on a bad contractor," said Hart. "You definitely don't want to hire the cheapest one you find. They're probably cheap and available for a reason."

Another rookie mistake is taking on too big of a project. You don't want to be gutting the house or moving walls on your first flip. Instead, start with more of a cosmetic flip where you're updating the flooring, paint, cabinets, and light fixtures.

"In reality, if you're doing a lot of flips, flipping is a pretty boring business. You're using the same paint colors, you're using similar flooring. Whatever's in style that year, we're like, 'Okay, for the next five houses, this is what we're doing,'" said Hart. "We're doing neutral colors, neutral floors, and just making everything fresh and clean so that it appeals to the most amount of people possible."

The money coming in from their flips and wholesales funds their lifestyle and savings.

"Flipping and the wholesaling, that's what I love to do. That's my day job, so I've turned that into my 'salary,'" said Gorius — and it can be lucrative.

He cited their most recent deal: "We got a property under contract 16 days ago, closed on it today, and wholesaled it for $24,000. Because it's a wholesale, that's pretty much gross profit. That's an extreme case. That's a fantastic deal. I will say there are other deals and flips that have been in our pipeline for two, three months now, so they're not all like that. But that is the power of this business."

A successful flip or wholesale can help you build enough savings to start adding rental properties to your portfolio. The problem with starting with a long-term rental is that it likely won't generate much cash flow, if any. In their market, for example, they can profit about $100 to $200 a month per unit.

"If you don't have any money in the bank and a tenant calls you because the water heater went out, there goes a whole year of your cash flow," said Hart. "You really have to be prepared to be able to make these repairs."

They look at their long-term rentals as their retirement funds.

"They probably won't make a ton, if any, money in the short term, but if you hold it for that 20, 30 years, then that's your retirement plan," said Gorius.

As Hart put it: "Buying rental properties is like a slow burn to retirement. No one is getting super wealth immediately, especially not in Louisville." But over time, "The tenants pay the mortgage, we build equity every single month, and eventually, we can sell off and have a nice retirement plan with it."

• An LA-based couple has figured out how to do day trips to Las Vegas on the cheap.
• They book $39 roundtrip tickets through Spirit Airlines and pack a backpack for the day.
• Credit card rewards and loyalty points from free apps allow them access to hotel pools and airport lounges.

Ryo Furukawa was intrigued by the Mandalay Bay pool — or, the 11-acre "aquatic playground," as the Las Vegas-based resort describes its popular amenity.

It has a wave pool and a lazy river, neither of which he'd ever experienced.

He and his fiancé, Jenn Dinh decided to make a day trip out of it. It was a bit of a tall order, considering they lived nearly 300 miles away in Los Angeles, but they managed — and, thanks to a cheap Spirit flight and a handful of travel hacks, they did it on a budget.

Since then, the couple has replicated the low-budget day trip to the entertainment capital of the world four more times. They spoke to Business Insider and broke down the cost of their typical 16-hour trip to Vegas, which they can do for less than $100 per person, not including food.

Airport parking: $30 total ($15 each)

The couple typically flies out of the John Wayne Airport (SNA) in Orange County. They drive themselves to the airport and leave their car in the lot.

Furukawa said the daily parking rate recently jumped from $20 to $30, and joked that he needs to "figure out another plan there."

Flights: $39 per person

Furukawa is a member of the Spirit Savers Club, a $70-a-year membership that offers discounts for him, the primary passenger, and up to eight additional guests on the same reservation.

"It paid for itself by just purchasing two tickets. We saved over $70 that one time," said Furukawa, who joined in the summer of 2024. For each subsequent trip, they've saved a couple of bucks.

"There's more savings when the tickets are more expensive — not as much savings when they're already cheap," he explained. But it bumps their ticket prices below $40.

Here's an example of a roundtrip flight for $38.60:

They typically depart SNA at 6:45 a.m. and arrive in LAS at 7:55 a.m. Their return trip leaves at 8:30 p.m. and arrives at 9:39 p.m. Spirit allows one personal item. They both pack a backpack.

Prices do fluctuate, said Dinh, but they've agreed on a cap: "If it's $50, we're not going to go. It has to be like 40-something or under."

Transportation in Vegas: $0 to $40 total ($20 per person)

Technically, the airport is walking distance from the Strip — and they've done the walk before.

"We only have one backpack each, so not many things to carry," said Furukawa. Though, "it's a little deceiving — probably three or four miles of walking."

While the active commute is free, and a nice option on a good-weather day, they prefer to save their legs. They've used rideshare apps and taxis — the taxi fare is set based on the part of the Strip you're heading to, making it easy to price compare with Uber and Lyft — but their favorite way to get around is by renting a car, which gives them more flexibility and the option to explore beyond the Strip.

On their most recent trip in January, they said the car cost a little under $40 for the full day — and they didn't have to top off the gas, either. They drove so few miles that, by the end of the day, "the meter was still past the full mark," said Furukawa.

Taking advantage of free activities and saving their food budget for LA

There's more to Vegas than pricey buffets, shows, and nightlife.

One of Furukawa and Dinh's favorite free activities is visiting the Conservatory at the Bellagio. It features displays that rotate seasonally. In January, they saw the Lunar New Year display; in late 2024, they experienced a holiday-themed display.

They've also explored Circus Circus, a hotel and casino (with free parking, they said) just north of the Strip that has an arcade with carnival games.

Vegas is a walkable city — particularly the Strip, which stretches a little over four miles — and they find themselves doing a lot of sightseeing on foot. They've also used the free trams that operate between Mandalay Bay and Treasure Island.

As for food, they consider themselves "spoiled" with the cuisine options in LA. They'd rather splurge on food at home and keep things simple and less expensive in Vegas. On their last trip, they spent about $20 on breakfast at a café off the Strip. They said it would have been double or even triple had they eaten on the Strip. For lunch, they spent about $30 at Taco Bell Cantina.

They're aware that buying food on the Strip can easily add up, but it doesn't hold them back from the occassional splurge.

They've done a classic Vegas buffet, which is "worth the experience if you have the time," said Furukawa. "Obviously, you want to stay there as long as you can!"

Travel hacks: Flexibility, credit card rewards, and free gambling apps

Flexibility will save your wallet. When planning their Vegas dates, Furukawa and Dinh prefer to take a day off from work and travel on a weekday. There's less traffic and fewer crowds, and it can be cheaper. They're constantly looking at Spirit flights, and if a cheap ticket aligns with a day when they can also land a free hotel room through rewards points — another hack of theirs — they'll jump on it.

In Vegas, use apps to earn free hotels, discounts, and rewards. Furukawa has discovered several apps that anyone can play for free, including POP! Slots, myVEGAS Bingo, myKONAMI, and MGM Slots Live.

Without spending any of his own money, he earns "loyalty points" for the time he spends playing, which can be redeemed for a comped room at MGM properties on select days (you still have to pay a resort fee, he said), discounted food or shows, and "Freeplay," a form of credit that allows you to play casino games.

"You can only redeem three rewards per about 30 days," he said. "I usually redeem 100,000 loyalty points for $25 myKONAMI Freeplay at three different properties. Most Freeplay on their app usually requires a minimum of a two-night stay, but this $25 Freeplay requires no stay."

On their latest trip, he said he was up $50 from Freeplay. It made the trip even more affordable.

Take advantage of credit card points and perks. One of their top hacks used to be using the Wyndham Earner Business Card, which allowed them to match earned Wyndham status to Caesars Rewards, which got them free parking and a waived resort fee. The Points Guy was also a fan of this perk, which is no longer effective as of January 31, 2025.

On their most recent trip in January, the couple booked a comped room based on their play. Thanks to their Caesars Diamond status, which was still effective at the time, they could park their rental car at Caesars for free and didn't owe the $54.95 resort fee. It allowed them a place to store their backpacks and leave the car for the day.

Another credit card benefit they have is Priority Pass, which grants them access to lounges in various airports, including the one in Vegas. They like to arrive at the airport early enough to get a free meal at the lounge before heading back to LA.

They said they're looking forward to the Capital One Lounge coming to the LAS soon.

The couple hasn't selected their next Vegas date yet, but at this point, the planning is minimal. "We just copy and paste," said Furukawa. "I pick her up, we go to the airport, park my car, and then get on the flight with our one backpack. It's a nice escape."

• Carmelo Camilleri credits his financial success to money lessons from his father.
• His father emphasized the importance of owning rather than renting and letting your money grow.
• The lessons helped Camilleri become a homeowner at 27 and are setting him up to retire early.

Carmelo Camilleri will never forget the time his dad yelled at him for buying Diet Pepsi at Walmart when it was on sale at ShopRite.

He and his fiancé were preparing to host his parents when they realized that they had forgotten to get soda the night before. They swung by the nearest grocery option, which happened to be Walmart, and word of the detour got back to Camilleri's dad.

"He actually yelled at me. He said, 'What's wrong with you? It's on sale at ShopRite,'" the Staten Island native told Business Insider. "I said, 'I know. You were on your way, and we were going to be late.' He goes, 'You could have gone there. We would've waited for you. It's OK. Get the cheaper price.'"

Camilleri says his dad is the reason he price-compares everything from gas to ground turkey — and his personal finance lessons are the reason the 31-year-old is a homeowner with robust savings and financial options.

"My goal is to have the option to retire at 35," said Camilleri, who has been working as a salesman since college and now runs a sales business. The path to early retirement would mean selling the business, he added, "so if and when that happens, I'll definitely have the opportunity to move on with my life."

Here are two money lessons from his dad that "put me in the right mindset," said Camilleri.

'Always own. Never rent.'

Camilleri lived at home with his parents for years after college, partly thanks to an early principle that his dad instilled in him: "Always own. Never rent."

In his mind, renting equates to throwing money away.

"You put a dollar in, that dollar is gone forever," said Camilleri. "When you're renting, you're building someone else's dream. You're building someone else's asset."

Living at home not only allowed him to save the majority of his sales income, which would eventually go toward a six-figure down payment, but it also meant he could be patient and diligent during the homebuying process.

"I was always going to buy a home. It was just a matter of when — not if," said Camilleri, who started seriously considering buying in 2020 and closed on a $670,000 five-bedroom in Brick, New Jersey in 2021. He paid $25,000 under the original asking price during a time when most homes in the area were going for above asking, he said.

"I probably spent a little over a full year looking. There were times when I would just stop, like two or three months at a time, because I wasn't getting anywhere — and I wasn't going to overpay," he said. "I wasn't willing to spend more than I would need to, and it's not that I financially couldn't do it — it's just not smart. I'm always looking for my money to grow, not the other way around."

Camilleri, who moved out of his parent's home and into his own at age 27, is proud to say, "I never paid a dollar of rent my entire life."

'Keep investing your money. Keep letting it grow.'

Camilleri didn't fully grasp his dad's second main money lesson — "Keep investing your money, keep letting it grow" — until he earned money for the first time.

He was 19, had just finished his freshman year of college, and landed a summer gig as a sales rep. In a two-month span, he made about $7,000 selling Cutco knives.

"At the time, I thought I was rich," he said. But before he had a chance to touch it, "The first thing my father said to me was, 'Don't spend it. Put it away.' And I said, 'What do you mean? I have this money. I should be able to use it.'"

His dad responded by teaching him about what happens when you overspend, accumulate debt, and incur interest. Rather than having compound interest work against him, he could take advantage of the phenomenon by investing his money, which he's been doing ever since. Most of his invested money is in the stock market, he said: "Obviously, nothing's guaranteed in life, but when you're investing in companies like Apple and Google, and using ETFs, these are long-term plays that are pretty much always going to pan out."

Camilleri, who refuses to pay for cable and subscriptions, buys ground turkey in bulk, and price compares gas using an app called GasBuddy, hesitates before agreeing that he's "frugal." At this point, his habits are ingrained.

"This is how I live my life. I get the best deals on everything, and I never buy at the first price. I'm always trying to negotiate. I'm always looking to get the best price I possibly could," he said.

His friends and fiancé say they don't think they could live like he does. They tease him about not being human. His response is that anyone can save and invest like he does and achieve financial independence.

"I am a human. I'm no better. I don't have superpowers," he said. "I just have a different mindset."

• Jack Schrupp left teaching and coaching to grow his protein powder company, Drink Wholesome.
• The business, which began as a side project to address his own dietary needs, brought in seven figures in 2024.
• Schrupp likes that entrepreneurship offers freedom, but it can feel isolating and lonely at times.

Jack Schrupp fell into entrepreneurship more so than he sought it out.

"I had this plan to teach for a while and then become an administrator and possibly even head of a school. That was a dream of mine," the former French teacher told Business Insider.

But when his side project — making and selling protein powder for sensitive stomachs — started to take off, juggling the business with life as a boarding school teacher and coach became impossible.

"It turned me into a fried human that didn't have enough time to brush his teeth," said Schrupp, who started making his own protein powder in college when he couldn't find a product that agreed with his stomach. He blended his early concoctions on top of the mini-fridge in his dorm room and, eventually, partnered with a granola company to produce his recipe in bulk.

It turned out that other people were interested in an easy-to-digest protein powder. He sold through his first batch of inventory, which cost him $20,000, and started offering more flavors and products.

As the company grew, so did his stress levels.

"I was doing too much, and I felt like I wasn't doing anything well — or, as well as I could have — and that was discouraging," he said. "I felt like I was just spread too thin. My life was very rich and rewarding, but I wasn't sleeping enough. I was very stressed."

Schrupp, 27 at the time, had to decide between the two career paths. He chose his company, Drink Wholesome, and quit teaching at the end of the 2023 school year. Sometimes, he wonders if it was the right call.

The challenges that come with entrepreneurship that not everyone talks about

Schrupp says that life as an entrepreneur versus life as a boarding school teacher "couldn't look more different."

As a "dorm parent," he lived in the same building as students. He didn't have "a whole lot of privacy," he said, but, at the same time, being surrounded by students and other teachers was energizing. "I loved teaching. That was my life, that was my community, that's what grounded me and made sense to me."

As the owner of a small business with one employee — his sister, who works remotely from the opposite side of the country — he now spends most days by himself.

He lives and works from his home in Hanover. It's a productive setup, and he considers himself "pretty relaxed," he said. "But it's professionally lonely."

Running your own business can feel isolating, "especially if it's a hard journey, which it often is," said Schrupp. "You feel like you are doing it alone with no one to turn to for help or advice. So, I wouldn't say that entrepreneurship is like a hack or should be the ultimate goal for everyone. If you're ever considering it, you should definitely take into account the loneliness that comes along with being an entrepreneur."

It's also harder to set boundaries when you're building a company versus working for an employer.

"I have the potential to work way more. I could probably work all day, every single day," he said. "There's no end to growing a business because, it's growing, right? It's ever-evolving. And if you're someone like me who is constantly looking at it with a critical eye and looking for ways to improve it, then you'll never finish your workday."

That said, he recognizes the perks, such as the freedom that comes with being your own boss: "I will say, it would be hard for me to start working for someone else, just because I do have almost unadulterated freedom. I'm accountable to no one."

For now, at 29, Schrupp is committed to continuing to grow his brand. He feels obligated to provide a good product to his customer base.

"I am motivated now more than ever to create a robust and long-term business because Drink Wholesome really helps people. We're pretty involved in a lot of people's health and well-being," he said. "But I don't know if the current iteration of the business is a great fit for me in the long term, and that is something that I wrestle with often."

He's learned the importance of consistently evaluating his relationship to his business.

"You have to ask yourself, as an entrepreneur, what you want to get out of the business. Because if you're not happy and you're not fulfilled, the business probably isn't going to do well," said Schrupp. "Having that conversation often and then making changes as needed is a really important part of the process. There's no playbook. You can't watch a YouTube tutorial on that. It's something you have to learn."

• After years of diligent saving, Carmelo Camilleri bought his first home at age 27 in 2021.
• He credits his savings habits to his dad, who also taught him to 'always own, never rent.'
• Thanks to smart negotiation and patience, he bought the home for $25,000 below the asking price.

The first time Carmelo Camilleri made a significant amount of money, he was 19 and had just wrapped up his freshman year of college.

He landed a summer gig as a sales rep and, within two months, made about $7,000 selling Cutco knives, he told Business Insider: "At the time, I thought I was rich."

His dad quickly shot down that notion.

"The first thing my father said to me was, 'Don't spend it. Put it away,'" recalled Camilleri. "And I said, 'What do you mean? I have this money. I should be able to use it.'"

His dad responded by teaching him about what happens when you overspend, accumulate debt, and incur interest. Rather than having compound interest work against him, he could take advantage of the phenomenon by investing his money.

It resonated and, from that point on, Camilleri adopted a new savings philosophy: "I just said to myself, 'If I make a dollar, I can only spend 10 cents of it at most.'"

That early money lesson, plus one more from his dad — "he taught me, 'always own, never rent,'" — led to Camilleri becoming a homeowner at age 27 when he purchased a five-bedroom in Brick, New Jersey in 2021. BI verified his ownership by looking at a copy of his mortgage statement.

"I was always going to buy a home. It was just a matter of when — not if," he said.

Saving up for a down payment: Living at home, using price comparison apps, and refusing to pay for subscriptions

Camilleri financed his home purchase with a 20% down payment, drawing from savings he'd accumulated throughout his early 20s.

He maintained the disciplined savings habits he established in college even as his income grew in his full-time sales role — and he avoided paying for housing for years. He lived with his parents in his childhood home until he bought his own place, meaning "I never paid a dollar of rent my entire life," he said.

Camilleri refuses to pay for subscriptions, which he considers "the biggest scam out there." He does have access to YouTube TV — his cousin gave him his login — and, "I jailbroke my FireStick," he said. "There's always a way to watch things for free."

He also refuses to pay top dollar for gas and groceries.

"If it's not the cheapest gas in the area, I'm not getting gas," said Camilleri, who uses the GasBuddy app.

As for groceries, ShopRite tends to be the cheapest option in his area, but if they raise the prices on one of his staples, like ground turkey, he'll shop around.

"If I see it went up 50 cents a pound, I'll take out my phone, and I'll start looking at other stores," he said. "I'll look at Stop & Shop, and if I see that it's 50 cents less or even 25 cents less per pound, I'm getting into my car, and I'm driving five minutes away. It's worth it in my head, especially because I like to buy in bulk."

At this point, his frugal habits are ingrained.

"This is how I live my life. I get the best deals on everything, and I never buy at the first price. I'm always trying to negotiate. I'm always looking to get the best price I possibly could," said Camilleri. That said, there's a time and a place to splurge, he added, pointing to his upcoming wedding. "I'm not being frugal when it comes to the wedding, but that's also because it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

Paying $25,000 under asking thanks to patience and smart negotiation

When Camilleri started seriously considering buying a home in 2020, interest rates were low, but the market was hot.

"At least in New Jersey, so many of the houses I looked at were going for $100,000 over asking price, $50,000 over asking price," he said. He wasn't willing to overpay, and living at home allowed him to be patient. "It's not like I had to move out."

Camilleri's patience paid off after a year of house hunting. He not only avoided a bidding war — he landed on a price that was $25,000 lower than what the seller was originally asking. He paid $670,000 for the 2,300-square-foot home.

It was part skill and part luck.

"I'm literally negotiating over the phone and making sales all day long. It's what I do for a living. I understand how negotiations work," he said. "I knew they weren't going to accept my first offer, but I started about $50,000 under asking, then they came back with a little bit higher than I wound up paying, and then we found some middle ground."

He added that lowballing wouldn't work in every situation: "It really depends on the demand for that home. If there were 10 people bidding on the home, I'm sure it wouldn't have worked out in my favor. In this instance, I do actually feel like I might have gotten lucky because it is a beautiful home."

He locked in a 2.875% interest rate, which still seems surprising to him: "You don't get that in New Jersey."

Even though his rate was "a steal," he said, "if I had no other choice and I had to pay 7%, I would still do that every single time over renting."

The way he sees it, it's much more costly to rent than to own.

"When you're renting, you're literally building someone else's asset. You're paying 100% interest is the way I like to describe it — because you're literally getting nothing back: You put a dollar in, that dollar is gone forever," said Camilleri. "Even if the interest rate is high, it's still something you own. It's still something that will build in value over time and that you have control over."

• Dexter Zhuang achieved Coast FIRE by increasing income and reducing expenses.
• Moving to countries with a lower cost of living increased his savings rate.
• He believes that anyone can use a form of 'geo-arbitrage' to keep more of their income.

Dexter Zhuang achieved what's known as "Coast FIRE" — an offshoot of the Financial Independence, Retire Early movement that means he no longer has to add to his retirement savings — with a simple, two-pronged approach: increasing income and reducing expenses.

He negotiated raises throughout his tech career and experimented with a variety of side hustles.

As for the reducing expenses component, "geo-arbitrage" helped. This strategy, which became increasingly popular during the pandemic when remote work allowed employees to essentially work from anywhere, involves earning an income from a higher-payer country while living in a lower-cost country.

Zhuang, 33, started his career in San Francisco, one of the most expensive cities in the US, where he worked as a product manager for Dropbox and growth-stage startups. He quit in 2019 to travel the world and experiment with the digital nomad lifestyle. It was his first taste of geo-arbitrage — he was doing remote consulting, charging the hourly rate he earned from his employer in the States while living in less expensive places throughout Asia, Europe, and Latin America.

In 2020, he moved to Singapore to work at a regional fintech startup. He explained that, while he was earning a lower salary in Singapore than he would have earned for a comparable role in the States, he ended up being net positive due to a lower cost of living and lower taxes.

In San Francisco in 2018, "my average expenses were about $6,422 per month," he told Business Insider. "Fast-forward to Singapore in 2022, my total monthly expenses were $4,945, on average, in terms of the USD."

These numbers don't take into account inflation, he noted: "If you adjusted for inflation, the San Francisco expenses would be even higher." As for taxes, "that was also lower for me in Singapore than in San Francisco, in terms of my effective tax rate."

Even though he was earning a smaller base salary, the cost-of-living difference allowed him to save and invest more of his total income and, ultimately, hit his Coast FIRE number sooner than he would have if he were still living in the Bay Area. Zhuang prefers not to share his exact net worth, but BI confirmed that he has accumulated six figures by looking at screenshots of his savings and investment accounts.

As of 2025, his cost of living is even lower. He and his wife moved to Mexico City in 2024, and their average monthly expenses are about $3,500, he said. His income is also less — he left the Singapore startup in 2023 after growing his side hustles to the point where they were bringing in full-time income — but has more flexibility and feels less pressure to earn a certain amount now that he can coast into retirement with his current portfolio.

How anyone can use geo-arbitrage to fast-track their financial goals

There are a variety of geo-arbitrage strategies anyone with flexible work can use to save more, said Zhuang.

He relocated from a higher-cost-of-living country to a lower-cost-of-living country but pointed out that it's possible to relocate domestically — either to a less expensive city or even a more affordable neighborhood within your same city.

"It's good for most people, especially families with kids, who would find a global move to be disruptive," Zhuang wrote in his newsletter Money Abroad.

Another option is working remotely for a global employer that offers competitive salaries regardless of an employee's location.

"As a hiring manager in the Asia tech industry, I saw wildly different salary ranges for people who were hired in Singapore (mature market) vs places like Indonesia (emerging market)," he wrote, adding: "To plug the gap, I've seen high-performing tech workers successfully petition their global companies to benchmark their salary based on the more competitive market (e.g. instead of benchmarking to Malaysia, use Singapore)."

Keep in mind that "the global tech talent market is still inefficient. If you're a top performer in an emerging market, look for companies that do benchmark their salaries globally."

• I've spent hours talking to college students about personal finance.
• Many of them don't fully understand how compounding works and, importantly, how to benefit from it.
• More high schools in the US are requiring students to take a personal finance class, but we need to keep talking about it.

Every January, Middlebury College invites me to its campus to talk to a group of students about money.

The guest lecture ranges between 90 and 120 minutes in length and is titled "Good Financial Hygiene — Lessons in Personal Finance."

I'm not a financial advisor, nor do I pretend to be, but in my decadelong career reporting on money and asking wealthy people, "What do you wish you'd known about money in your 20s?" I've learned some key lessons.

Most of these lessons — pay yourself first, automate your savings and investments, etc — are surprisingly simple and don't require a finance degree, or even a degree at all, to understand and use to your advantage. Had I understood them earlier and started building smart money habits in my late teens and early 20s, I'd be in a stronger financial position now at 32.

I try to convey that to the students: Time is on your side. Don't wait. Start now!

A two-part lecture: The reason we save is to invest

The crux of the lecture is that putting your money to work is a powerful way to grow your wealth over time.

But before we pull out the compound interest calculator and discuss investment strategies, we start with two prompts: How do you feel about money? How do you want to feel about money?

I ask them to pull out their notebooks and do two to three minutes of independent thinking.

The answers to the first prompt represent their starting point. Everyone has a different starting point — we all come from different financial backgrounds — but where they start from really isn't all that important. What matters is that they have some level of control over their trajectory, and they get from what they wrote down for prompt No. 1 to what they wrote down for prompt No. 2.

Next, we get into two components of personal finance that can impact trajectory: Saving — how to keep a portion of your income — and investing, which is the key to building wealth.

I acknowledge the importance of paying yourself first. When they ask how much, I point to the 50/30/20 rule of thumb, which suggests putting 50% of your income toward needs, 30% toward wants, and 20% toward savings. I emphasize that starting with a small savings rate of even just 1% is better than nothing.

Most students are familiar with the concept of budgeting, even if they don't actively budget. I challenge them to think about budgeting not as restrictive, as it's often portrayed, but as liberating. If they successfully divvy up their paycheck according to the 50/30/20 rule, for example, they have 30% of their income to spend on whatever fills their cup.

Part two is all about growing your savings by putting it to work, taking advantage of compound interest, and understanding that time is on your side as a young investor. Every year, without fail, this is the moment when the energy in the room shifts. Ears perk. Hands shoot up.

This is when I'm reminded that young people are fascinated by the concept of investing — and data shows this generation is curious enough to take action: Gen Z started investing at a much earlier age on average, 19, than baby boomers (35) and millennials (25), according to the 2024 Schwab Modern Wealth survey.

Still, a handful of my students don't fully understand how compounding works or how it relates to an investment account. They're smart kids, but chances are that they didn't engage with this material in high school: In 2022, just 23% of high school students in the US were required to take a personal finance class, up from 16% in 2018, according to research from Next Gen Personal Finance. That percentage has continued to increase: As of 2024, more than two-thirds of all states require personal finance classes for high school graduation.

We analyze compound interest charts that show just how much of an edge they have simply by starting young, including this one from the St. Louis Fed comparing an investor who starts at 25 and another who starts at 35. The one who starts early ends up with a significantly bigger portfolio, even though they invest for 20 fewer years than the investor who started at 35.

We also plug numbers into a compound interest calculator and figure out how much money they'd have to save a month to become millionaires by 50. It's often less than they think.

The tricky lesson to convey is how to actually take advantage of compounding: How to start investing.

This is where there seems to be a significant lack of understanding. The common misconceptions I've picked up on are:

• Investing is for rich people
• Investing is for people who know a lot about finance and economics
• Investing means buying individual stocks
• Investing is risky

As we discuss passive investing strategies and how anyone can invest in funds that track the S&P 500 with a small amount of money, I can sense the eagerness and excitement as the students start to understand that they can actually participate — that investing isn't just for rich people — and that they can contribute starting today.

I'm reminded every year I step into the classroom that there's an appetite for financial literacy. We just need to keep talking about it.

• Jack Schrupp always had a hard time digesting protein powder, so he decided to make his own.
• After years of refining his recipe, he launched Drink Wholesome as a side hustle in 2020.
• After overcoming several business challenges, he quit his teaching job to run the company full-time.

When former collegiate athlete Jack Schrupp couldn't find a protein powder that suited his stomach, he decided to take matters into his own hands.

He bought a spice grinder and a small blender, loaded up on ingredients such as oats and eggs at the co-op market a mile from campus, and became a bit of a "mad scientist" in his dorm room. "I would make a powdery mess and, oftentimes, it was on top of a mini fridge — like in a bedroom, not even in the kitchen," the 29-year-old Williams College alum told Business Insider.

The taste "left a lot to be desired," recalled Schrupp, "but it didn't upset my stomach, and that's what mattered most to me."

He graduated in 2018, took a teaching position at a boarding school in New England, and moved onto a different campus, his protein powder equipment and ingredients in tow.

"I lived in the dorm and I didn't have a whole lot of privacy — as in, my life spilled over into the lives of my students and vice versa, so they knew what I was up to, and they were very interested. At some point in time, we had a little tasting, if you will," he said. "And that was honestly very helpful feedback because they are brutally honest."

Schrupp continued tinkering with his recipe, testing variations with honey, date sugar, and maple sugar.

Partnering with a local bakery and spending $20,000 on his first round of inventory

Schrupp figured that other people with sensitive stomachs might be interested in his product. After years of experimentation and recipe refinement, he decided to test his hunch and launch a protein powder company called Drink Wholesome in early 2020.

The first thing he did was cold call manufacturers and ask if they could make his product in bulk. He connected with a small, local granola company that did contract manufacturing for other local businesses, and they agreed to make his first batch in two flavors: mocha and peanut butter coconut.

"In hindsight, those are ridiculous flavors to launch with because, today, 80% of my sales are for vanilla and chocolate," said Schrupp. "But mocha and peanut butter were my favorite flavors. That's just what I liked the best and so that's what I started with."

His startup costs amounted to about $20,000, which he pulled from his savings.

"I didn't make very much money teaching, so it was a very significant investment for me," said Schrupp, who had a loose sales plan of pitching his product to local grocery stores and setting up booths at local sporting events.

Selling online was never on his radar, nor did he want it to be — until the Covid-19 pandemic forced his hand.

Overcoming the 2020 pandemic 'curveball' and the 2021 bird flu outbreak

Schrupp received his first round of inventory in February 2020, weeks before the COVID-19 outbreak shut much of the world — and his sales strategy — down.

"The pandemic really threw a curveball my way," he said. Two months into lockdown, "I really had not sold many bags at all, and I was genuinely convinced that I was just going to have to throw it all out and move on with my life."

What initially appeared to be a setback turned into an advantage: His inability to meet with customers in person forced him to turn to online sales. He started selling on WooCommerce and Amazon, and while his initial customers were all friends and family, strangers eventually started finding his product. As of 2025, 99% of his sales come from those two platforms.

As a small-business owner who's never sought capital from investors, he's grown to appreciate e-commerce, even though it's not his ideal way of finding and interacting with customers.

"It allows you to reach an incredibly large number of people with a small, finite amount of resources," said Schrupp. "E-commerce is incredible. What I will say, though, is it's not very rewarding. It's faceless."

His faceless customers kept returning, though, eventually wiping out his initial inventory. He ordered a second round — this time he made vanilla and chocolate flavors — in the summer of 2020. The next year, another unexpected event nearly put him out of business.

"In 2021, there was a massive, unprecedented bird flu outbreak that, almost overnight, drove the price of egg products up in some cases 500%," said Schrupp. "Because I was only selling egg white-based protein powders, my profitable business essentially became unprofitable overnight."

It forced another pivot: He launched a vegan, chickpea-based protein powder that he no longer makes, but it introduced the idea of diversifying his product line. He now makes an almond-based vegan powder and a collagen-based powder.

"Through the challenges, we've adapted, we've iterated, and ultimately come out better, more resilient, more flexible," said Schrupp.

Leaving education to run Drink Wholesome full-time

Schrupp never imagined his life as a full-time entrepreneur running his own business.

"I had this plan to teach for a while and then become an administrator and possibly even head of a school. That was a dream of mine," he said.

After three and a half years of juggling teaching and coaching with a growing business that was starting to feel more like a full-time job than a side hustle, Schrupp had to decide between the two career paths.

"I was doing too much, and I felt like I wasn't doing anything well — or, as well as I could have — and that was discouraging," he said. "I felt like I was just spread too thin. My life was very rich and rewarding, but I wasn't sleeping enough. I was very stressed."

In 2023, at the end of the school year, he quit to run Drink Wholesome full-time.

The decision wasn't challenging from a personal finance standpoint.

"I'd spent five years teaching at boarding schools with free housing. I didn't earn a lot of money, but because I didn't have to pay for housing, which is a huge cost, and I lived pretty modestly, I'd saved money and did certainly have a safety net," he said.

Plus, he could always go back to teaching if he needed to.

Based on the trajectory of his company, which did seven figures in online sales in 2024 according to screenshots of his sales dashboards viewed by BI, he won't need to return to a teaching career anytime soon — but he might want to.

"Running your own business is isolating and, especially if it's a hard journey, which it often is, you feel like you are doing it alone with no one to turn to for help or advice," said Schrupp, who works remotely from his home in Hanover and has one employee: his sister, who is based on the West Coast. "So I wouldn't say that entrepreneurship is like a hack or should be the ultimate goal for everyone. You should definitely, if you're ever considering it, take into account the loneliness that comes along with being an entrepreneur."

There are perks, of course — he says he's earning more money as a business owner and remote work allows him to travel much more than his teaching career did — but he's figuring out if the money and flexibility are worth it.

"It's not so much that I'm lonely, but I'm professionally lonely. That's certainly the case, and I'm OK with it for now," said Schrupp. "But I don't know if I would want to do this for the rest of my life."