Elon Musk appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast, where the two discussed criticisms that Musk is a Nazi.
AP Photo/Matt Rourke
Elon Musk says he's not a Nazi following backlash to a gesture he made last month.
Musk said to Joe Rogan that you can't be called a Nazi if you're not actively committing genocide.
"What is actually bad about Nazis β it wasn't their fashion or their mannerisms, it was the war and genocide," he said.
Elon Musk says he's not a Nazi and that the online hate he's been receiving is "pretty stressful."
In a three-hour episode of Joe Rogan's podcast on Friday, Rogan and Musk discussed a recent incident that fueled accusations that the billionaire SpaceX and Tesla CEO made a Nazi gesture.
While speaking to the crowd at President Donald Trump's inauguration celebration in January, Musk made a gesture that caused many to question whether it was intended to be a fascist salute.
For example, the former vice president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany Michel Friedman, told a German outlet that Musk's action was a disgrace and, in his opinion, very clearly a "Heil Hitler" salute, The Guardian reported. US Rep. Jerry Nadler also condemned the gesture in a post on X, several Jewish organizations spoke out against it, and Jewish human rights group the Simon Wiesenthal Center urged Musk to clarify his intentions.
Meanwhile, The Anti-Defamation League argued in a post on X that it was "awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute."
Social media sites including Musk-owned X have since been swarmed with users accusing the billionaire of condoning Nazism.
In response to the controversy, Musk wrote on X at the time, "Don't say Hess to Nazi accusations! Some people will Goebbels anything down! Stop GΕring your enemies! His pronouns would've been He/Himmler! Bet you did nazi that coming," turning the names of prominent Nazis into puns, followed by a crying-laughing emoji.
On Friday, Musk told Rogan that the persistent criticisms are "ridiculous," and that the gesture was not a Nazi salute, joking, "Now I can never point at things diagonally."
"Hopefully people realize I'm not a Nazi. Just to be clear, I'm not a Nazi," Musk said, laughing.
Musk then argued that if you're not committing genocide, then you can't be called a Nazi.
"What's relevant about Nazis is like, are you invading Poland? And if you're not invading Poland, maybe you're not" a Nazi, he said. "You have to be committing genocide and starting wars. "
"What is actually bad about Nazis β it wasn't their fashion or their mannerisms, it was the war and genocide," he added.
At another point in the episode, Rogan asked the billionaire how he personally deals with hate and attacks against him.
"It's pretty stressful," Musk answered, taking a much more serious tone. "They actually want to kill me. They say so online. There's like Reddit forums where they don't just want to kill me, they want to desecrate my corpse."
It's not just Musk's arm gestures that have led critics to debate whether he supports Nazi ideologies. The frontman of the White House DOGE office has also supported Germany's far-right political party, the Alternative for Germany party, which is fiercely nationalistic and anti-immigration.Leaders of the AfD party have repurposed Nazi slogans, urged Germany to stop apologizing for its past crimes, and said the Nazis are just a "speck of bird poop" in Germany's long, successful history.
A construction crew removed the lettering from the US Agency for International Development's building earlier this month.
Alice Tecotzky
A fired USAID worker says security stopped him from taking one last photo of his wife's office memorial.
The Trump administration has dismantled USAID and fired most of its staff.
Workers at the agency's DC headquarters were given a short window of time to clear out their desks.
A recently fired US Agency for International Development worker spoke with reporters on Thursday about his exit, saying security stopped him from taking one last photo of a memorial to his wife in the office.
In a video shared on X by the NewsNation reporter Joe Khalil, the former USAID employee, Adam Tomasek, described the abrupt departure.
"My first wife passed away," Tomasek told reporters outside USAID headquarters. "She was honored on the memorial wall. She was a foreign service officer herself, so I wanted to take another photo to send to her mother."
Tomasek said he got into an argument with the security guard who refused to let him take a photo.
"I explained my story to him, and he said, 'No, we have instructions,'" Tomasek said. "You are not allowed β no photos, no videos."
Workers at USAID were forced to clear out their offices this week after the Trump administration largely dismantled the foreign aid agency and terminated most of its staff.
Earlier this week, USAID workers received notices that they were being fired or placed on leave β including thousands who worked at the agency's Washington headquarters β and that the Trump administration was ending 90% of the agency's contracts, The Associated Press reported.
USAID, which has funded humanitarian efforts around the world, was one of the first targets of the Trump administration's expansive cost-cutting efforts.
The US channeled nearly $32.5 billion through the agency in 2024, providing aid to countries such as Ukraine, Jordan, and Ethiopia. Still, foreign aid spending makes up less than 1% of the federal budget.
After federal workers unions sued over the dismantling of USAID, a federal judge granted the Trump administration a win on February 21, saying it could continue placing the agency's workers on leave.
Dozens of lawsuits have been filed against the Trump administration the so-called Department of Government Efficiency over efforts to shrink the federal government.
Getty Images; Ludovic Marin; Alex Brandon/AP Photo; Alyssa Powell/BI
The Trump administration already faces more than 85 lawsuits.
Some lawsuits challenge President Donald Trump and Elon Musk's moves to shrink the federal government.
Below are some lawsuits corporate America, as well as consumers, may want to keep tabs on.
President Donald Trump's executive orders and actions by his administration have already spurred more than 85 lawsuits since he was sworn into office for a second term.
A chunk of those legal challenges has emerged in response to Trump and Elon Musk's push to shrink the federal government through the work of DOGE.
Here are some high-stakes lawsuits related to the moves of the Trump administration and DOGE that corporate America, as well as consumers, may want to keep tabs on.
Lawsuit over the dismantling of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
In National Treasury Employees Union, et al. v. Vought, et al., a group of workers' unions sued the Trump administration alleging its attempts to get rid of the agency are illegal.
On February 1, Trump fired Rohit Chopra, the CFPB director under former President Joe Biden, and on February 7, Musk wrote on X, "CFPB RIP."
Shortly after, Russell Vought, the bureau's acting director, sent an email to employees ordering them to "not perform any work tasks this week." The agency's Washington, DC, headquarters was also ordered closed.
The National Treasury Employees Union and other workers' unions quickly filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration in Washington, DC, federal court, alleging that the move to "dismantle" the CFPB is unlawful since the agency was created by Congress.
US District Judge Amy Berman Jackson, who is overseeing the case, said in a ruling on February 14 that the Trump administration could not terminate any CFPB employee without cause. She also ordered that the defendants not "delete, destroy, remove, or impair any data or other CFPB records covered by the Federal Records Act."
In a February 24 court filing, Justice Department attorneys argued against the plaintiffs' motion for a preliminary injunction and said that the Trump administration plans to streamline the CFPB.
Jay Kesten, a law professor at Florida State University who researches securities regulation and corporate law, called the CFPB "one of the few governmental watchdogs for our financial markets."
"In the short-term, while litigation is pending, this is very likely to disrupt the ability of consumers to hold bad-actors in the banking and credit markets to account," Kesten told BI.
Lawsuit challenging Trump's termination of DEI programs
Donald Trump has signed dozens of executive orders since entering office, including several ending government DEI programs and initiatives.
Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
A lawsuit brought earlier this month against the Trump administration by the city of Baltimore, Maryland, higher education groups and a restaurant workers' organization challenged Trump's executive orders targeting diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in the federal government.
One executive order calls for federal agencies to terminate all "equity-related" grants or contracts, while another requires federal contractors and grant recipients to "certify" that they do not operate any illegal DEI programs.
The plaintiffs β which include the National Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education, the American Association of University Professors, and the Restaurant Opportunities Centers United βargued in their lawsuit that the orders are "unconstitutionally vague."
US District Judge Adam Abelson issued a preliminary injunction on February 21 temporarily blocking the Trump administration from enforcing parts of the orders.
In his written opinion, the judge added that the plaintiffs "have shown they are unable to know which of their DEI programs (if any) violate federal anti-discrimination laws, and are highly likely to chill their own speech."
The Trump administration has moved to appeal the ruling.
Peter Woo, a California lawyer specializing in corporate diversity practices at the firm Jackson Lewis, told BI that though the case does provide some temporary reprieve at least to federal contractors and private entities that receive federal grants, the court's ruling does not prevent the Department of Justice or other federal agencies from launching a probe over DEI initiatives.
"The only thing that it blocks the AG from doing is to use the term 'illegal DEI' as the basis to conduct those investigations," Woo said.
One of Trump's executive orders encourages the private sector to end "illegal DEI discrimination and preferences." As part of that plan, the order tasks each federal agency to "identify up to nine potential civil compliance investigations" of enterprises including publicly traded corporations and large nonprofits.
The Head of the Office of Special Counsel sued the Trump administration over his termination
Hampton Dellinger's lawsuit over his termination as the US Special Counsel names US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, seen here.
Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
Hampton Dellinger, the head of an independent government watchdog agency that protects federal whistleblowers, sued the Trump administration, including US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, after he was fired through a one-sentence email this month.
In his lawsuit filed in Washington, DC, federal court, Dellinger argued that his termination from the Office of Special Counsel was unlawful and the president may only cut his five-year term short "for inefficiency, neglect of duty, or malfeasance in office."
US District Judge Amy Berman Jackson granted a temporary restraining order on February 12, reinstating Dellinger to his post for 14 days. The case reached the Supreme Court after the Trump administration filed an emergency petition, and the court left Jackson's order in place for now.
Jackson, on February 26, extended the temporary restraining order reinstating Dellinger by three days before she rules on the motion for a preliminary injunction.
Also on February 26, Trump administration's acting solicitor general urged the Supreme Court to take up the case, arguing in part that a "fired Special Counsel" shouldn't be allowed to continue "wielding executive power."
Roderick Hills, a New York University School of Law professor, told BI that the case could be consequential for the business world. That's because, he said, it appears the Trump administration wants to use the case as a vehicle to try to get the nation's high court to overrule a 1935 legal precedent called Humphrey's Executor, which says Congress can insulate agency chiefs from presidential removal.
If that precedent β which is cited in Dellinger's lawsuit β gets overruled for all independent agencies, that means that even the Federal Reserve Board could be placed under presidential control, said Hills, who researches administrative and constitutional law.
"If the Federal Reserve Board served at the pleasure of the president, you can just imagine the chaos that Trump could reap," Hills said.
Lawsuit over DOGE's access to sensitive taxpayer data at the IRS
IRS data was at the center of a lawsuit.
Andrew Harnik/AP Photo
Following reports that DOGE was seeking broad access to sensitive taxpayer data at the Internal Revenue Service, a group of watchdog organizations and workers unions filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration. In it, they allege that DOGE's efforts to gain access to the confidential information is illegal.
The data in question includes individuals' social security numbers, income and net worth, bank account information, tax liability, deductions and charitable donations as well as confidential business information like profit and loss statements and payroll lists, the lawsuit says.
The plaintiffs β which include the advocacy groups Center for Taxpayer Rights and Main Street Alliance, along with workers' unions National Federation of Federal Employees and Communications Workers of America β argue that Congress has not granted DOGE the authority to view the data and that such sweeping access violates the Tax Reform Act, the Privacy Act, and the Administrative Procedure Act.
The White House and the Treasury Department later agreed to block DOGE's full access to the IRS's payment systems, instead granting read-only access to anonymous taxpayer data.
Kesten, the law professor at Florida State University, told BI that lawsuits involving alleged privacy violations like this one could fuel greater cybersecurity concerns within the business community.
"This may be a very novel kind of problem that they face where privacy information, data leaks, come not from hackers or other folks trying to obtain access, but coming from leaks through governmental sources," Kesten said.
Lawsuit over the Trump administration's firing of Inspectors General
Department of Defense Inspector General Robert Storch, seen here in 2023, was fired after Trump took office.
AP Photo/Alex Brandon
In Trump's first few days in office, the Trump administration fired more than a dozen inspectors general, telling them in a two-sentence email they were being terminated because of "changing priorities."
After their termination, eight inspectors general from the departments of defense, veterans affairs, health and human services, state, education, agriculture, labor, and the Small Business Administration sued the Trump administration, arguing that their firings "violated unambiguous federal statutes" designed to protect them from "interference" in their nonpartisan oversight duties.
Inspectors general β who conduct audits, investigate reports of misconduct, and look for waste and fraud in federal agencies and government contractors β are expected to be independent of the president.
The plaintiffs also argue that the Trump administration violated the Inspector General Act of 1978 by not notifying Congress of their terminations 30 days in advance, and not giving a reason for their removal.
On February 14, US District Judge Ana Reyes, who is overseeing the case, denied the inspectors' general request to be immediately reinstated in their roles, saying that their emergency request was not necessary. The judge, however, allowed for the case to proceed, just on a slower timeline.
Joseph Slater, a law professor at the University of Toledo and an expert in labor and employment law, told BI that while this case directly involves rules specific to the federal sector, it could have downstream effects on the business world.
"The question will be how much an agency without traditional checks and with a decidedly partisan slant can abuse its authority in terms of regulating/not regulating and rewarding/punishing private sector businesses for what previously would have been seen as improper reasons," Slater said in an email.
Federal workers' unions sue over Trump administration's buyout offer
As part of Trump and Musk's efforts to reduce the federal workforce, millions of federal employees were offered a buyout deal, prompting the workers' unions to sue.
Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images
Trump and Musk's plan to root out federal employees with buyout offers was allowed to move forward.
In late January, the Trump administration gave just over 2 million government workers the chance to resign and maintain full pay and benefits until September 30. Employees originally had until February 6 to accept the buyout.
Federal workers' unions, including the American Federation of Government Employees and the National Association of Government Employees, then sued the Trump administration, arguing that the country "will suffer a dangerous one-two punch" if the federal employees "leave or are forced out en masse."
The lawsuit said that the "fork in the road" deferred resignation offer was "arbitrary," "capricious," and unlawful.
US District Judge George O'Toole Jr. of Massachusetts initially issued a temporary restraining order to extend the deadline on the offer, but ultimately ruled on February 12 that the program could proceed. The judge wrote in his order that the labor unions who sued did not have standing to bring the lawsuit because they were not "directly impacted by the directive."
In a statement to Business Insider after the judge issued his order, Everett Kelley, the president of the American Federation of Government Employees called the ruling "a setback in the fight for dignity and fairness for public servants," but said, "it's not the end of that fight."
The new order, issued on Wednesday, lists the duties and responsibilities that officials from DOGE will have at the federal agencies they're assigned to.
It expands on Trump's executive order from his first day in office that established the DOGE task force and mandated that every federal agency set up a DOGE team. That team, the order said, should typically include one DOGE Team Lead, one engineer, one human resources specialist, and one attorney, who will all work with the head of their agency to implement Trump's cost-cutting agenda.
Wednesday's order asks agency heads to work with their assigned DOGE Team Lead to accomplish the following tasks:
Build out a system to track "every payment" related to the agency's contracts and grants, and record a "written justification for each payment."
Review all the agency's current contracts and grants with a goal to terminate or modify them "where appropriate" to reduce or reallocate spending. Contracts and grants to educational institutions and foreign entities should be prioritized.
Conduct a review of the agency's contracting policies, procedures, and personnel.
Issue guidance on signing new contracts or modifying existing contracts to "promote government efficiency" and the policies of the Trump administration.
The DOGE Team lead at each agency will give a monthly report to the DOGE Administrator detailing the agency's contracting activities.
Set up a system to track agency employees' travel requests that will require written justification for non-essential travel and travel to conferences. The DOGE Team Lead will then report all travel justifications to the DOGE Administrator every month.
Freeze all employee credit card activity for the next 30 days, except for charges related to "disaster relief or natural disaster response benefits or operations or other critical services."
Create an inventory of the agency's federal property and submit a plan to get rid of property that is "no longer needed."
There are a few exceptions to the order, which does not apply to law enforcement officers, US Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the Department of Homeland Security, or the Uniformed Services. Classified information, as well as contracts or grants related to the enforcement of federal criminal or immigration law, are also excluded. Agency heads can submit additional requests for exemption, according to the order.
The order is part of Trump's larger agenda to reduce the federal workforce and cut government spending across the board β an endeavor that, with the help of SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk, has caused mass chaos and confusion among federal staffers, and spawned over 85 lawsuits challenging his and DOGE's authority.
While Musk is largely seen as the leader of DOGE, the White House said Wednesday that task force's official administrator, who will oversee much of the above tasks, is Amy Gleason.
The order, which had been posted to the White House webpage that shares Trump's executive orders, was removed by Thursday afternoon.
The White House didn't immediately return a request for comment about the removal.
On Wednesday's episode of "The Five," Watters spoke about a 20-year military veteran he met at a shooting event.
The veteran is "one of the guys who has killed a lot of bad guys," Watters told his fellow hosts. "Put his life on the line. He punched out after 20 years of working for the Pentagon. And he's only been there a few months, so his probationary period he just found out he's probably going to get laid off."
Watters continued, "He's going to get DOGE'd. He texted me and said: 'Jesse, this isn't good. I'm upset. This is really sad.' This guy is not a DEI consultant. This guy is not a climate consultant. This guy is a veteran. So when you're talking about DOGE-ing people, veterans should get priority. Because if you're going to go out there and kill enemies, put your life on the line for this country, you shouldn't be in the same category as people that are doing DEI."
As part of Musk and Trump's efforts to trim government spending and reduce the federal workforce, DOGE officials have been looking into the Department of Defense for areas where they can "save taxpayer dollars and eliminate waste, fraud and abuse," according to a post from DOGE on X.
DOGE's work at the Pentagon in recent days includes collecting lists of probationary employees β typically, staffers who have been in their roles for less than one or two years β with the expectation that many of them could soon be terminated, The Washington Post reported.
Thousands of federal workers in probationary roles have already been let go across a wide swath of federal agencies, including the Forest Service, the Office of Personnel Management, the Small Business Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Education, and many others.
Several military veterans have told Business Insider they're feeling confused, desperate, and terrified about sweeping cuts to the federal government, which may be disproportionately affecting veterans.
"I finally found one person I knew that got DOGE'd, and it hit me in the heart," Watters said of his friend.
Watters also said that, "besides saving my friend," he wants to see DOGE distribute bigger dividend checks β an idea the task force is considering but that would have to clear a number of hurdles to be enacted.
Prior to his plea on Wednesday, Watters, a fervent Trump supporter, had frequently praised Musk's cost-cutting work, last week calling the Tesla and SpaceX CEO a "corporate turnaround artist" whose DOGE team is "inspiring every American leader to set their standards sky-high."
Elon Musk's access to sensitive Treasury Department systems raised concerns from a onetime top civil servant at the department.
Pete Kiehart for The Washington Post via Getty Images; Chip Somodevilla/Pool Photo via AP
The Department of Government Efficiency aiming to make sweeping changes to the federal workforce.
Several top government officials have left their roles after pushing back against DOGE.
The task force's work to reshape Washington is causing major disruptions.
The Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, was envisioned by President Donald Trump and Elon Musk as a way to streamline government operations and reduce the size of the federal bureaucracy.
As the hard-charging task force has made its imprint on the government, several high-profile officials have either stepped down from their roles or have been dismissed from their positions.
Here's a look at some of the major departures that have come as a result of DOGE's work.
Michelle King, Social Security Administration head
King, the acting commissioner of the Social Security Administration, stepped down from her post at the agency on Sunday following a dispute with the Department of Government Efficiency, people familiar with the matter told The Washington Post.
After serving more than 30 years at the SSA β which manages programs related to retirement, survivors, and disability benefits for millions of Americans β King became its acting commissioner last month, according to her LinkedIn.
Nancy Altman, the president of political advocacy group Social Security Works, told NBC News that several SSA officials informed her of King's departure. Altman told the outlet that King had refused to provide sensitive data including bank information, Social Security numbers, and medical records to the DOGE team.
In a statement shared with Business Insider, White House spokesperson Harrison Fields said that the agency will be led by "a career Social Security anti-fraud expert" until Trump's pick to lead the SSA, Frank Bisignano, is confirmed.
"President Trump is committed to appointing the best and most qualified individuals who are dedicated to working on behalf of the American people, not to appease the bureaucracy that has failed them for far too long," Fields said in the statement.
The SSA did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Business Insider, nor did King.
Jim Jones, head of the FDA's food division
Jones, the head of the US Food and Drug Administration's food division quit his role on Monday, according to a resignation letter obtained by Bloomberg.
Jones said in the letter that he was leaving his post because the cuts DOGE has made to the FDA will make it too difficult to do his job. Combined with the Trump administration's "disdain for the very people" needed to implement the changes it wants to see, Jones wrote that it would be "fruitless" for him to continue in his role.
In an interview with Stat News, Jones cited his frustration that nine staffers were terminated from a 29-person group that was researching chemical additives in food β a key area of concern for Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
"It goes to this indiscriminate nature of it," Jones told the outlet. "There's nothing strategic about it, nothing thoughtful about it. That'll be the hardest place to shore up. And just listening to Secretary Kennedy, that's one of his highest priorities, if not his highest priority."
When asked to confirm Jones' departure, the White House shared a statement from Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt saying "there are a number of bureaucrats who are resistant to the democratic process and mandate delivered by the American people."
"President Trump is only interested in the best and most qualified people who are also willing to implement his America First agenda on behalf of the American people," Leavitt continued in the statement. "It's not for everyone and that's okay."
The FDA did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Business Insider.
David Lebryk, top US Treasury official
Lebryk for years was the top civil servant at the Treasury Department and he briefly served as acting Treasury secretary. In those roles, he oversaw over a billion payments made by the government annually before he announced his retirement in late January.
Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent gave approval for DOGE to access the system, which had generally been operated by career civil service employees.
Lebryk was put on administrative leave after pushing back against DOGE's attempts to access the expansive federal payment system, according to The Washington Post.
Lebryk joined the Treasury Department in 1989 as a presidential management intern and served as the fiscal assistant treasury secretary from 2014 until January 2025. From the start of Trump's second term until Bessent was confirmed as Treasury secretary days later, Lebryk served as the acting Treasury secretary.
Business Insider reached out to the Treasury Department and a spokesperson for DOGE for comment.
Paul Martin, USAID inspector general
Martin, the inspector general at the US Agency for International Development, was fired in February after his office issued a report describing what they saw as the downfalls of the Trump administration's efforts to dismantle the agency.
The dismissal of Martin β who had served as USAID's inspector general since 2023 β came in the form of an email from the White House Office of Presidential Personnel, per NBC News.
"On behalf of President Donald J. Trump, I am writing to inform you that your position as Inspector General of the United States Agency for International Development is terminated, effective immediately," deputy director of the Office of Presidential Personnel Trent Morse wrote in the email. "Thank you for your service."
Business Insider has reached out to the USAID Inspector General's office for comment.
Steven Reilly, lead engineer for Notify.gov
Reilly, who served as the engineering lead for the General Services Administration's Notify.gov text messaging platform, stepped down from his role in the Technology Transformation Services branch after its new leader tried to obtain access to all parts of Notify.gov, according to The Washington Post.
The new director of the GSA's Technology Transformation Services, Thomas Shedd, is a former Tesla engineer.
Shedd tried to obtain administrative access to over 20 government systems, and in a departing letter, Reilly said he had not "received a justification" for Shedd's request, according to The Post.
"While we have suggested alternatives, such as read-only access, Thomas has continued to request full admin/root access," Reilly said in the letter.
GSA acting press secretary Will Powell told Business Insider in a statement that Shedd "has not been given access to the Notify.gov system at this time."
"Access ensures a detailed understanding of how the systems work so areas for optimization and efficiencies can be quickly identified," Powell said. "Mr. Shedd is working with all appropriate GSA officials to ensure all established GSA protocols and policies are followed before he is granted access to a TTS system."
President Donald Trump has tasked the billionaire Elon Musk with leading and staffing the Department of Government Efficiency.
Brandon Bell/Getty Images
A young staffer at the Department of Government Efficiency wrote on Substack about why he joined.
Gavin Kliger said he left his tech job to fight what he called "systemic corruption" in government.
Elon Musk's DOGE has hired many young tech professionals with little government experience.
Gavin Kliger, a former Databricks software engineer who joined Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency, published a Substack post on Friday explaining why he walked away from "millions of dollars, prestige, and a life of comfort" in tech to address what he called "institutional failure" and "systemic corruption" in government.
Kliger's LinkedIn profile indicates that after graduating from the University of California, Berkeley, in 2020, he worked as a software engineer at startup Databricks before becoming a "Senior Advisor to the Director for Technology and Delivery" at the US Office of Personnel Management under DOGE in January. Business Insider was not able to independently verify his DOGE title, and Kliger did not respond to a request for comment.
In his Substack post, Kliger explained why he walked away from his tech job to join DOGE.
"The numbers were staggering β stock grants, bonuses, a Silicon Valley salary β stacked against a bureaucratic grind at the Department of Government Efficiency," Kliger wrote. "But this isn't another story about leaving tech for government work. It's about watching vital systems degrade, one by one, until the only rational response is to step in and fix them."
Kliger said he felt compelled to join DOGE because he believes the government has been stifling conservative viewpoints, forcing people to comply with arbitrary mandates, and getting bogged down with bureaucracy.
In his Substack post, Kliger said his disillusionment with liberal institutions and viewpoints began in high school during the 2016 election and grew once he got to college.
Kliger criticized Berkeley's handling of campus protests in 2017, accusing the university of allowing a mob to attack conservatives and arguing that the media falsely described the protests as "mostly peaceful."
During a protest in August 2017, about 2,000 demonstrators were marching without incident when a group of about 100 people joined in and several violent incidents followed, The Washington Post reported.
Kliger said COVID-19 restrictions pushed him further against "bureaucratic nonsense."
"It was never about public health," Kliger wrote. "It was about power. About seeing what people would tolerate and pushing further."
Kliger argued that these weren't "isolated failures" but part of "institutional failure" and "systemic corruption."
Kliger has been writing on Substack since November. Previous posts describe his thoughts about Trump's Cabinet selections Matt Gaetz and Pete Hegseth. When he was identified as part of DOGE, he briefly posted an article titled "Why DOGE" with a subscription price of $1,000 a month before removing it. He's now charging $8 a month.
Trump has tasked Musk with gutting government spending through the Department of Government Efficiency.
Chris Unger/Zuffa LLC via Getty Images
Trump established the Department of Government Efficiency to cut federal spending and root out waste.
Under Elon Musk, DOGE has already targeted a number of federal agencies, including USAID and the DoD.
Here's a list of the government programs and agencies DOGE has gone after so far.
Since returning to the White House, President Donald Trump has wasted little time sending his newly created Department of Government Efficiency after federal agencies.
On his first day in office, Trump signed an executive order officially creating DOGE. With billionaire SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk at the helm as a "special government employee," the group has taken swift action toward its stated goal of rooting out government fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayer dollars.
Here's a list of the agencies DOGE has targeted so far and other key initiatives from the new organization.
Department of Defense
DOGE is now going after the Department of Defense, the oldest and largest government agency in the US, with a total budget of over $800 billion.
In early February, Trump said that he expected DOGE to "find billions, hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud and abuse" in the Pentagon. That includes what Trump's national security adviser Mike Waltz has called the "absolute mess" of US shipbuilding.
DOGE posted on X on February 14 that it had begun looking into the DoD.
"Great kickoff with @DeptofDefense," the post said. "Looking forward to working together to safely save taxpayer dollars and eliminate waste, fraud and abuse."
DOGE staffers have been at the Pentagon collecting lists of probationary employees across defense agencies, and it's expected that many could soon be terminated, people familiar with the matter told The Washington Post.
The task force sought access to the Internal Revenue Service's data system that houses highly sensitive information about every taxpayer, nonprofit, and business in the country, The Washington Post reported on February 16.
The IRS considered granting DOGE broad access to its systems and data, including its Integrated Data Retrieval System, which lets IRS workers view and adjust taxpayer accounts and data, the Post reported.
But The White House later agreed to block DOGE's full access to the IRS's payment systems, instead granting read-only access of taxpayer data that has been anonymized, the Post reported on February 20, citing people familiar with the arrangement.
Before the agreement to make the data anonymous and read-only was reached, officials sounded alarm bells about the kind of access DOGE would have.Even within the IRS, access to this data is strictly monitored, and employees are prohibited form accessing their own files or those of their friends and family, according to the agency's employee handbook.
Democratic Senators Ron Wyden of Oregon, a ranking member of the Committee on Finance, and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, a ranking member of the Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs, wrote a letter to the IRS on February 17 urging DOGE to disclose the extent of its access to IRS systems.
The senators argued that giving DOGE access to sensitive taxpayer data raises "serious concerns that Elon Musk and his associates are seeking to weaponize government databases containing private bank records and other confidential information to target American citizens and businesses as part of a political agenda."
The IRS was also one of several federal agencies where probationary employees were fired en masse. The agency's enforcement of tax evasion could be hit especially hard by the cuts.
The IRS did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Business Insider.
National Institutes of Health
The National Institutes of Health β the federal agency that funds and conducts medical research under the Department of Health and Human Services β announced in a directive on February 7 that it was cutting how much of its funding can be used for administrative overhead.
The NIH said it would be placing a 15% cap on "indirect costs" related to research projects, which includes things like personnel, facility maintenance, and equipment. The NIH said on X that this limit would save the agency $4 billion per year, "effective immediately."
After a lawsuit from a group of associations representing medical, pharmacy, and public health schools as well as Boston and New York-area hospitals, a federal judge issued a temporary nationwide pause on the funding cuts, which remains in effect until further action from the court, Stat News reported.
The NIH has also been targeted by Trump and Musks's widespread staffing cuts across the federal workforce, with the agency losing over 1,100 staffers, according to an internal email obtained by Reuters.
Federal worker layoffs
As part of Trump and Musk's promise to reduce the federal budget, the Trump administration has laid off thousands of probationary workers β typically, employees who have been in their roles for less than two years β from a wide swath of federal agencies.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency that provides healthcare to more than 160 million Americans, said in a press release on February 5 that its officials were working with DOGE to find "opportunities for more effective and efficient use of resources in line with meeting the goals of President Trump."
In response to a post containing a Wall Street Journal article about CMS collaborating with DOGE, Musk wrote on X, "Yeah, this is where the big money fraud is happening."
On February 12, a group of 32 Democratic Senators wrote a letter to Trump urging him and Musk to keep their "hands off Medicare or Medicaid."
"DOGE is invading CMS, posing immeasurable risks to Americans' health care," the letter reads. "DOGE representatives, with no training or expertise, could make unilateral, politically motivated decisions to target both beneficiaries and health care providers while blocking access to care and essential payments for services."
While at the Commerce Space Conference in Washington DC on February 12, the space agency's acting administrator said that NASA was expecting a visit from DOGE.
"So we are a federal agency. We are going to have DOGE come. They are going to look β similarly to what they've done at other agencies β at our payments," said Janet Petro, in comments reported by Bloomberg.
On February 14, the space agency confirmed to Flying, an aviation-focused magazine, that DOGE staff were on-site to review its payments.
NASA has done quite a lot of business with Musk's own space company, SpaceX, amounting to around $14.5 billion in contracts between the two.
In a February 6 letter to NASA's Janet Petro, Democratic Representatives Zoe Lofgren, a ranking member of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology and Valerie Foushee, a ranking member of the Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics, demanded the space agency provide answers on whether it was working with DOGE.
And in a follow-up letter sent on February 21, the representatives β now joined by Rep. Emilia Sykes, a ranking member of the Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight β again urged the agency to disclose the extent to which it is working with DOGE, arguing that Musk's involvement is a dangerous conflict of interest.
Department of Education
Trump has repeatedly said he wants to shut down the Department of Education (ED). On February 12, he told reporters that he wants the department closed "immediately," adding that it "is a big con job."
Along with some GOP lawmakers, Trump has said that education should be handled at the state and local level, and that a federal agency isn't necessary.
On February 12, DOGE said that it had cancelled a number of ED contracts β including a "$4.6M contract to coordinate zoom and in-person meetings," a "$3.0M contract to write a report that showed that prior reports were not utilized by schools," and a "$1.4M contract to physically observe mailing and clerical operations."
The cost-cutting group has also said that it has terminated 89 contracts at the ED, totaling $881 million.
What's next for the department is still unclear, but Trump has said that he wants his pick for education secretary, Linda McMahon, to put herself out of a job.
DEI Initiatives
On January 31, just 11 days into its existence, DOGE announced it had terminated 104 government contracts related to DEIA (diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility) programs and initiatives.
DOGE said the cuts β spanning 30 agencies including the Federal Aviation Administration, Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of Personnel Management, Environmental Protection Agency, and many more β created over $1 billion in savings.
US Agency for International Development
Musk has been working to shut down the US Agency for International Development, which funds humanitarian efforts around the world. As the world's largest provider of humanitarian aid, the US channeled nearly $32.5 billion through the agency in 2024, providing aid to countries like Ukraine, Jordan, and Ethiopia.
Following a lawsuit from federal employee labor unions, a federal judge partially blocked Musk and Trump's attempted shutdown of USAID β which legal experts argue is illegal without approval from Congress. The judge's order temporarily blocked the Trump administration from placing USAID workers on leave,first until February 14, and in another extension, until at least February 21.
On February 13, another federal judge issued an order temporarily lifting a three-week funding freeze the Trump administration had placed on foreign aid, the Associated Press reported.
As part of Musk and Trump's efforts to trim government spending and reduce the federal workforce, the Trump administration emailed a buyout offer to around 2 million government employees. The deferred resignation, sent by the Office of Personnel Management at the end of January, offered to pay employees their full salary and benefits through September, without the need to work during that time, in exchange for their resignation.
The offer was met with mass confusion, shock, and outrage from federal employees, many of whom questioned whether the government could actually promise to pay them through September with a looming government shutdown in March when current funding runs out.
After federal labor unions filed a lawsuit arguing that the offer is illegal, a federal judge twice extended the deadline for employees to accept the buyout, but ultimately ruled that it can proceed.
The offer finally closed on February 12, with 75,000 workers accepting the buyout, according to the Office of Personnel Management.
Days after the crash, Musk wrote on X that the FAA's "primary aircraft safety notification system failed for several hours," adding that, as a result, Trump gave the DOGE team his approval to "make rapid safety upgrades to the air traffic control system."
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy confirmed Musk's role, saying the DOGE team was "going to plug in to help upgrade our aviation system."
Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas β who chairs the committee that oversees the FAA β said he's confident in Musk's ability to upgrade the FAA, adding that the American people should take "real comfort in his ability to navigate complicated technologies."
Not everyone has so much faith in Musk.
Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell of Washington argued in a letter to Duffy that, as the CEO of SpaceX, Musk has a clear conflict of interest that should prohibit his involvement with the FAA.
Last year, the FAA proposed fining SpaceX more than $600,000 for two occasions where the rocket company is said to have violated its launch licenses.
On February 19, Duffy said on X he had enlisted SpaceX engineers "to help upgrade our aviation system."
The FAA said in a statement to Business Insider on February 25 that it had begun testing out a SpaceX Starlink internet terminal at its facility in Atlantic City and two terminals at its "non-safety critical sites in Alaska."
Treasury Department
Trump said he granted Musk and his DOGE team access to the Treasury department's digital payments system, which controls trillions of dollars in payments to Americans β everything from Social Security benefits to tax refunds.
The Treasury Department said Musk's team was only granted "read-only" access to the system, but the move still sparked criticism, particularly from Democratic lawmakers and federal workers' unions. The unions sued the Treasury Department, arguing that the agency had illegally granted Musk access to sensitive personal and financial information.
Trump defended Musk's access to the platform, telling reporters it was only so that DOGE could find additional areas to cut government waste.
"Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval, and we will give him the approval where appropriate," Trump said.
On February 14, the Treasury Department's acting inspector general said in a letter obtained by the AP that he was launching an audit of the payment system's security controls and would be looking into whether any "fraudulent payments" had been made, as Musk has alleged. The Government Accountability Office also said it would be opening a probe into DOGE's access to the payment system, according to a letter sent to lawmakers that was obtained by Politico.
For now, a federal judge has barred DOGE officials from accessing the Treasury Department's sensitive payments systems until a lawsuit alleging the access is illegal concludes.
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Trump has threatened to overhaul, or entirely scrap, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which provides aid to Americans following natural disasters like Hurricane Milton and the LA wildfires.
The president has called the agency, which employs more than 20,000 staff around the US, a "very big disappointment" that is "very bureaucratic," "very slow," and costs "a tremendous amount of money."
On February 10, Musk wrote on X that "FEMA betrayed the American people by diverting funds meant for natural disasters to pay for luxury hotels for illegal migrants."
But New York City officials said that FEMA had correctly allocated the funds, which were never part of a disaster relief grant and were not used on luxury hotels, as Musk had said, The New York Times reported.
Hours after Musk's post, FEMA's acting director, Cameron Hamilton, posted on X that the payments had been suspended and that the responsible personnel will be held accountable.
On February 11, a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security announced that four FEMA officials had been fired in connection to the payments, including the agency's Chief Financial Officer, two program analysts, and a grant specialist.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
On February 6, a group of Democratic lawmakers accused "unelected and unvetted associates of Elon Musk and the so-called Department of Government Efficiency" of targeting the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The NOAA is in charge of forecasting the weather, analyzing climate data, and tracking extreme weather events.
Senator Chris Van Hollen and Congressman Jamie Raskin, along with other Maryland Democrats, penned a letter alleging that DOGE bureaucrats had been visiting NOAA headquarters, housed within the Department of Commerce, with the intent to break up the agency and merge it with the Department of the Interior.
In their letter, the lawmakers urged the leaders of the US Department of Commerce, Howard Lutnick and Jeremy Pelter, to maintain the independence and integrity of the NOAA, as Lutnick had promised to do in his confirmation hearing.
The lawmakers argue that DOGE is illegally attacking NOAA without congressional approval, in an attempt to dismantle and privatize the agency which they say would rob American farmers, businesses, and citizens of crucial, life-saving services.
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Musk has repeatedly called for the elimination of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which was established in 2011 after the Great Recession to oversee financial products and services offered to Americans. It seeks to protect Americans from financial scams and abusive practices, like excessive overdraft fees.
"CFPB RIP," Musk wrote on X on February 7 next to a tombstone emoji.
Trump's Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent ordered the CFPB to halt most of its work and told the consumer watchdog agency to stop issuing "public communications of any type."
The CFPB has told staffers to "not perform any work tasks" while it shuts down its DC headquarters amid an uncertain future.
The agency followed up by sending termination notices to dozens of employees, some of whom had already accepted the buyout offer, sources familiar with the situation told CNBC.
The agency's first director, Richard Cordray, has warned that shuttering the CFPB would turn the consumer finance world into the "wild, wild west," adding that Musk's attempted shutdown is unethical and, with his plans to offer financial services through X, could be considered a conflict of interest.
Productivity email sent to federal employees
DOGE sent a mass email to federal workers on Saturday, February 22 asking them to provide five bullet points explaining what work tasks they had accomplished in the past week. They were given a Monday night deadline to respond, and if they didn't, Trump threatened that they could be "semi-fired" or "fired." While at first Musk said anyone who didn't respond would be terminated, he later changed course to say workers would be given another chance.
The "What did you do last week?" email, sent by the Office of Personnel Management, followed Trump's instruction to Musk to"get more aggressive" in reducing the size of the federal workforce.
In a post on X on February 24, Musk explained the email as "basically a check to see if the employee had a pulse and was capable of replying to an email."
The email caused mass confusion among federal workers, who received conflicting guidance from their superiors on whether to respond or not.
It's not yet clear how the differing guidance across federal agencies will be resolved, but Musk said on X that the "mess will get sorted out this week."
"Lot of people in for a rude awakening and strong dose of reality," his post continued. "They don't get it yet, but they will."
Musk's DOGE is hiring for a small number of full-time positions.
Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call
Elon Musk's task force, DOGE, has doubled its budget to over $14.4 million.
Trump established DOGE to enhance efficiency and cut federal spending and waste.
DOGE has claimed to be saving the government around $1 billion a day.
Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency, aimed at reducing federal expenditures, has more than doubled its own spending in its first three weeks.
DOGE's apportionment grew from $6.75 million to $14.4 million between January 30 and February 8, according to the task force's latest financial filings.
Both Musk and Trump have said the task force's main goal is rooting out government fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayer dollars.
The office's $14.4 million apportionment is less than its previous incarnation as the United States Digital Services, which Trump's executive order renamed to United States DOGE Services. In its prior form, the office had been allocated approximately $60 million for fiscal year 2024, according to a Biden White House announcement.
On its X page, DOGE claimed it is saving the government about $1 billion per day, "mostly from stopping the hiring of people into unnecessary positions, deletion of DEI and stopping improper payments to foreign organizations."
The task force also announced on January 31 that it had terminated 104 government contracts related to DEIA (diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility) programs and initiatives.
DOGE said the cuts β spanning 30 agencies including the Federal Aviation Administration, Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of Personnel Management, Environmental Protection Agency, and many more β amounted to over $1 billion in savings.
The DOGE White House office staff is around 30 workers, most of whom are early- to mid-career professionals with backgrounds in tech, finance, law, and politics.
The DC metropolitan area could see the greatest economic effect of Trump's buyout offer to federal workers.
halbergman/Getty Images
Economists say Trump's buyout offer alone isn't enough to impact the national job market.
When you factor in the total cuts to federal spending, a larger negative effect is possible.
Around 65,000 federal workers have reportedly accepted the buyout offer to leave their jobs.
The Trump administration's buyout offer to federal employees likely won't affect enough workers to have a immediate impact on the national job market, economists say.
More than 65,000 federal employees accepted the deferred-resignation offer, according to the White House, which promises full pay and benefits through September to workers who stop working now.
But 65,000 people entering the labor market is actually "a quite small number," said Harry Holzer, a nonresident senior fellow in Economic Studies at Brookings Institute and a public policy professor at Georgetown.
The U.S. economy adds about 200,000 jobs each month on average, Holzer said.
Stan Veuger, a senior fellow in economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, noted that many of the people accepting the buyout offer are probably close to retirement.
"I don't think you can compare that 60,000 number to an actual 60,000 person layoff because so many people would've retired anyway," he told BI.
And if they're not retiring, many taking the buyout will find employment elsewhere. "Those who take such a deal are the ones who most want to leave the labor force or who are most likely to find other jobs," Orley Ashenfelter, an economics professor emeritus at Princeton, said.
The impact will be felt more, Holzer said, if hundreds of thousands of federal workers enter the workforce. He also said the scale of the impacted jobs could grow with Trump administration cutting federal spending across the board, leading to federal contractors losing work and organizations losing their federal funding.
"With that number, much more quickly, you can get into scenarios where you feel it at the national labor market, and perhaps even a little more so in the DC region," Holzer said.
The federal government dominates DC-area employment both directly and through contractor jobs. Because of that, the area is likely to see "a large negative impact if the resignations actually happen," said John Abowd, an economics professor emeritus at Cornell.
Beyond the impact on the labor market, Abowd noted that the loss of federal workers could disrupt the function of the government.
"Chaos is the short-term consequence," Abowd told BI. "In the longer term, there is likely to be a severe deterioration in the quality of government services, especially in activities where government services are taken for granted: food and drug safety, transportation services, medical research, defense research and development."
Following a lawsuit filed last week, a federal judge extended the initial deadline for employees to accept the buyout offer from Thursday last week to Monday, when US District Judge George O'Toole in Boston will hear arguments from federal labor unions who say the offer is illegal.
Without congressional action, Musk β the billionaire tech titan who is now serving in the Trump administration β nor President Donald Trump, has the legal authority to do so, the experts told Business Insider. And so far, the Republican-controlled Congress has taken no public action to push back against the move.
The humanitarian aid agency known as USAID announced on Tuesday it was set to place nearly all of its direct-hire workforce around the globe on administrative leave at the end of the week, just a day after Musk said in an X post that he "spent the weekend feeding USAID into the wood chipper."
"Elon Musk's claim that he has President Trump's go-ahead to shut down USAID is flatly illegal and unconstitutional," said Laurence Tribe, a Harvard Law School professor.
"In our system of government, only Congress wields the power of the purse and the power to create or destroy entire agencies to disburse the money the government collects in taxes or borrows from bondholders," said Tribe.
Not even the president has the unilateral authority to take an ax to federal agencies the way Musk says he is, the legal scholar said.
"The president cannot do this directly and so he can't delegate any authority to do it to Musk or anyone else," Cornell Law School professor Michael Dorf said.
As the head of the Department of Government Efficiency or DOGE, Musk, with the backing of Trump, has made it his newfound mission to reduce spending by the federal government β and USAID has become one of Musk's top targets.
President John F. Kennedy initially created USAID through an executive order in 1961, and Congress later formally established it as an independent agency through the Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998.
"Congress could cancel it, but the president can't unilaterally shutter it," Dorf said of USAID, adding, "This is blatantly unlawful and a violation of Trump's oath to take care that the laws are faithfully executed."
Earlier this week, the US State Department announced that Trump has appointed Secretary of State Marco Rubio as the acting administrator of USAID.
The State Department said in a statement that Rubio "notified Congress that a review of USAID's foreign assistance activities is underway with an eye towards potential reorganization."
Rubio wrote in a letter to Congress: "The Department of State and other pertinent entities will be consulting with Congress and the appropriate committees to reorganize and absorb certain bureaus, offices, and missions of USAID."
As for whether the Trump administration can legally reorganize USAID, Roderick Hills, an NYU School of Law professor who researches administrative and constitutional law, told BI that is also against the law.
"Certain statutes have, from time to time, given presidents narrow and time-limited re-organization powers, but none of them give President Trump any power to reorganize the USAID," Hills said. "In fact, the statutory background to USAID makes it perfectly clear that President Trump's actions here violate federal law."
The Trump administration directed all USAID direct hire personnel, with some exceptions, to be placed on leave β effectively shutting down a swath of the agency.
Illustration by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
USAID was designed to operate independently
Congress designed USAID to operate independently of the State Department, Tribe told BI. "There is no legal loophole they can invoke to make their actions lawful," he said.
The legal expert said that apparent inaction by the GOP-led Congress on the matter suggests that Republicans in control of Congress are "afraid" of being confronted with Musk's "limitless riches."
On Wednesday, House Speaker Mike Johnson defended Musk's role as head of DOGE and his efforts to cut government spending, arguing that the executive branch is acting "within the scope of their authority."
Johnson said Republicans would "vigorously defend" Congress' role in government. "But what's happening right now is a gross overreaction in the media to what is happening," Johnson said.
"The executive branch of government in our system has the right to evaluate how executive branch agencies are operating," he said. "It's not a power grab."
A slew of Democratic lawmakers, on the other hand, have sounded the alarm.
"USAID was created by federal law and is funded by Congress. Donald Trump and Elon Musk can't just wish it away with a stroke of a pen β they need to pass a law," Democratic Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii said.
James Gardner, a professor at the University at Buffalo School of Law, told BI that Congress has given USAID many functions by statute, "and it is not up to anyone but Congress to decide that it should not perform the functions Congress has instructed it to perform."
"The Constitution designates the president as the chief enforcer of the law, not the maker of laws," Gardner said.
Though experts say the effort to disband USAID is illegal, it does not mean it can't happen.
Trump told reporters on Monday that shutting down USAID "should have been done a long time ago" and said he did not think the move would need approval by Congress.
A White House official insisted in a statement to BI on Wednesday that federal law was being adhered to.
"DOGE is fulfilling President Trump's commitment to making government more accountable, efficient, and, most importantly, restoring proper stewardship of the American taxpayer's hard-earned dollars," the official said. "Those leading this mission with Elon Musk are doing so in full compliance with federal law, appropriate security clearances, and as employees of the relevant agencies, not as outside advisors or entities."
While speaking to reporters in the Oval Office on Monday, Trump clarified Musk's power, saying the Tesla and SpaceX CEO can't make any moves without the green light from his administration.
"Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval," the president said. "And we'll give him the approval where appropriate. Where not appropriate, we won't."
Musk did not immediately respond to a request for comment for this story. The State Department declined to comment and instead referred BI to recent statements by Rubio and the White House.
President Donald Trump's executive order to rename the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America is being implemented across the federal government and military.
Jim WATSON / AFP
President Donald Trump ordered the Gulf of Mexico to be renamed the Gulf of America.
Google has agreed to honor the name change, while Mexico is pushing back.
Experts say the name change reflects much deeper issues and could have larger implications.
President Donald Trump's decision to rename the Gulf of Mexico is more than just geographical nitpicking β it's a political move that shows how he wants to be perceived by the world, experts in international law and geography say.
The move could cause a headache for Google, which has since changed its map to go along with Trump's renaming, and it has the potential to worsen US-Mexico relations, the experts said.
It also led to trouble for the Associated Press, which was barred from Trump's executive order signing on Tuesday after it refused to use the new name.
As for whether Trump can unilaterally change the name of the body of water, the answer is yes β but only for the US.
Can the US rename a body of water?
In one sense, countries can call geographic features whatever they want within their own jurisdiction, said Ian Hurd, a political science professor at Northwestern University who researches international law.
"Countries name and rename features in their countries as they wish, and renaming is pretty common, especially when a new government wants to differentiate itself from past practices," Hurd told Business Insider.
For example, he said, the Indian government has renamed many of the country's cities to emphasize decolonization or Hindu nationalism, and many Russian place names changed throughout the 20th century.
When a place's name is disputed, Google Maps often shows both names to users outside the countries involved.
Grace Eliza Goodwin/Google Maps
And outside each country, "there is no formal body to decide on what things are called," Hurd said.
There is a consultive body within the United Nations called the Group of Experts on Geographical Names that encourages international coordination and standardization of cartographic names. But countries do not have to follow its recommendations.
While individual states can make their own decisions about what to call a place, that doesn't mean they have the authority to rename an international body of water, said Matthew Zierler, a political science professor at Michigan State University who studies foreign policy and international law.
"So renaming Denali to McKinley is within the United States' purview, but the Gulf of Mexico is a different issue," Zierler told BI. "Internationally, there have always been differences among countries about what to name specific bodies of water, islands, etc."
"Names reflect culture, history, and identity, so the disagreements between countries on what to refer to a place are real," but the core of the issue, he said, "is political rather than legal."
What the name change means for Google
Following Trump's executive order to rename the gulf, Google agreed to implement the change. In a post on X, Google said it would begin changing the name for US users of its maps once it had been officially entered into the US Geographic Names InformationSystem, spurring Mexico's president to push back in a letter to the company.
"We have a longstanding practice of applying name changes when they have been updated in official government sources," Google wrote in its X post.
The tech giant said in a follow-up comment that "when official names vary between countries, Maps users see their official local name" and the rest of the world sees both names.
While the name change was handed down by executive order from the president, Google has no legal requirement to adopt this naming convention, nor does any other private entity, Mark Lemley, a Stanford law professor, told BI.
The Gulf of Mexico as it appears on Google Maps.
Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images
"And indeed," Lemley said, "if they were required to do so, they would be in a difficult position because other countries officially call it different things."
Because Google is not required to follow Trump's name-change order, its decision to do so anyway is, in essence, a political one, experts said.
"Google and other mapmakers are not focused on the law. They want to remain in business and will tend to follow the direction of the countries they are operating in," Zierler said, adding that while this may be confusing to some, "I think it is quite clear to most that names are symbolic."
Historically speaking, Google's decision to abide by Trump's name change is not unprecedented.
"Throughout history, cartographers have often served the interests of the powerful, so it is not surprising to see a company like Google follow suit with these name changes," Reuben Rose-Redwood, a professor of geography and the director of the Critical Geographies Research Lab at the University of Victoria, told BI.
Google did not respond to a request for comment.
Implications for the US and its relations with Mexico
Some legal experts said Trump's decision to rename the Gulf of Mexico says a lot about how he wants himself, and the US, to be perceived by the world.
"Most name changes arise from culture-war politics," Hurd told BI. "Nationalist governments often project an image of power by giving ideologically laden names to places. This appears to be the motivation in Trump's claim to the 'Gulf of America.'"
And that can send an unintended message to the world, Hurd added.
"Changing names is often a sign of weakness by a leader rather than strength," Hurd said. "It reveals their insecurities about their place in the world."
And Trump's order does not reflect well on the state of US-Mexico relations, nor on the countries' future rapport, Zierler said.
"The potential for this to be a major dispute between the US and Mexico is real," Zierler told BI.
But the name change itself, he said, "is secondary to other issues the US president has with Mexico over immigration and trade."
Mexico is concerned, as are other countries, about "United States unilateralism and being pushed around," Zierler said, adding: "The naming dispute is emblematic of that."
Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum isn't thrilled about Trump's order to change the Gulf of Mexico's name or Google's decision to honor it.
Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum wants the Gulf of Mexico to retain its centuries-old name.
ALFREDO ESTRELLA/AFP via Getty Images
In a letter to Google presented on Thursday, Sheinbaum urged Google to reconsider changing the 400-year-old name of the body of water on its maps, Reuters reported.
The name change "could only correspond to the 12 nautical miles away from the coastlines of the United States of America," Sheinbaum said in Spanish as she read the letter in a morning press conference, according to Reuters.
Mexico says the US has no legal right to change the name of the body of water β which borders the US, Mexico, and Cuba β because the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea mandates that a country's territory stretches only up to 12 nautical miles out from its coast, Reuters reported.
When Trump floated the name change before taking office last month, Sheinbaum responded by saying that parts of North America should be renamed Mexican America because a world map from 1607 named it as such.
As for what Google's top competitor will call the gulf, Apple has not indicated whether it will change the gulf's name on its own maps. The company did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The email offers what appears to be a buyout if he quits his job.
Ruiz says he feels doubly targeted as a Latino and as a federal worker. But he has no plans to resign.
This as-told-to essay is based on a conversation with Tony Ruiz, a 47-year-old Army veteran who works as a Veterans Service Representative at the US Department of Veterans Affairs.
Like many federal employees, Ruiz received an email this week from the US Office of Personnel Management offering buyouts to federal workers who want to resign rather than work under the new administration. Ruiz's employment has been verified by Business Insider.
Ruiz, who is Latino, says he feels like he's been hit by a double whammy: the resignation offer, and, before that, a letter from higher-ups asking workers to root out any examples of efforts to promote DEI, or diversity, equity, and inclusion.
The following has been edited for length and clarity:
I was hired in February of last year to be a veteran service representative at the US Department of Veterans Affairs, which is a role based out of Los Angeles.
I work for the part of the VA that's in charge of all veteran benefits, and my job is really to assist veterans in all kinds of things. For example, if a veteran is trying to add dependents, needs to add a disability to his award, is going back to active duty, or is asking for help when it comes to homelessness, they put in a claim and it gets routed to an adjudicator like me.
It's a chance for us to really help the veterans.
I'm also a veteran of the US military myself. I served in the Army, with an honorable discharge in 2001. (I graduated from Basic Training in 1998.)
Ruiz at his US Army Basic Training Graduation in 1998.
Tony Ruiz
When I was in the military, I had a dream to work for the federal government, and so to finally join this role a year ago, I was so excited to be serving my veterans.
But in the last two weeks, things have been difficult.
First, we got an email last week from the Acting Secretary at the US Office of Personnel Management, which said they're taking steps to close federal DEI initiatives because, they said, it's wasteful in government, it's shameful discrimination, and it's dividing Americans by race.
What really upset me was the fact that this email pretty much says to all of us, "We want you gone." It feels like they don't appreciate the value that we bring to the table.
How can it be that I finally got my dream job after so many years, and yet now I have this situation where they want to get rid of me in a sense β not just as a federal employee, but also as a Latino, born from Mexican immigrants, who are legal, and as an Army veteran who's serving my country proudly?
They're telling me I'm no good in the sense that they're telling me I'm not wanted. And the people in the streets that are getting kicked out of the country, I feel like them, like I'm being deported from the federal government.
With the emails that we've gotten, I can tell you people are afraid, people are nervous. Morale has been terrible β to the point where people have been sick a lot in the last couple of weeks. And ever since the election, morale has been different. People are less talkative. It's palpable.
But I'm not afraid. And I have no intention of resigning.
In the military, we learned about bravery, about courage, and about service to our country. But one thing I learned as well β that I think a lot of politicians and a lot of Americans forget β is in the military, we had a rule and it was very clear: If you're given an order that's unlawful, like murder or whatever it is, it doesn't matter who it's from, you are to question that order and bring it up to the higher-ups. That's a very important thing.
In other words, we're soldiers, we're not robots.
Even though you're a military member, you love your country enough to be able to say, "No, this is not right." And so now that I'm serving my country here as a VA employee, that still stands to me.
DeepSeek is a popular Chinese AI chatbot that has seemingly demonstrated that it is possible to create a robust LLM without spending billions.
Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
DeepSeek is a Chinese AI company whose newest chatbot shocked the tech industry.
DeepSeek says its AI model rivals top competitors, like ChatGPT's o1, at a fraction of the cost.
DeepSeek's rise has impacted tech stocks and led to scrutiny of Big Tech's massive AI investments.
An artificial intelligence company based in China has rattled the AI industry,Β sending some US tech stocks plungingΒ and raising questions about whether the United States' lead in AI has evaporated.
The Chinese startup, DeepSeek, unveiled a new AI model last week that the company says is significantly cheaper to run than top alternatives from major US tech companies like OpenAI, Google, and Meta.
Here's everything you need to know about the hot new company.
What is DeepSeek?
DeepSeek is a Chinese artificial intelligence startup founded in 2023.
It's been the talk of the tech industry since it unveiled a new flagship AI model last week called R1 on January 20 with a reasoning capacity that DeepSeek says is comparable to OpenAI's o1 model but at a fraction of the cost.
DeepSeek made the latest version of its AI assistant available on its mobile app last week β and it has since skyrocketed to become the top free app on Apple's App Store, edging out ChatGPT.
Who is behind DeepSeek?
DeepSeek started as an AI side project of Chinese entrepreneur Liang Wenfeng, who in 2015 cofounded a quantitative hedge fund called High-Flyer that used AI and algorithms to calculate investments.
After buying thousands of Nvidia chips, Wenfeng started DeepSeek in 2023 with funding from High-Flyer.
The AI chatbot can be accessed using a free account via the web, mobile app, or API.
Why are investors worried about DeepSeek?
DeepSeek's R1 model is built on its V3 base model. The company has said the V3 model was trained on around 2,000 Nvidia H800 chips at an overall cost of roughly $5.6 million.
And though the training costs are only one part of the equation, that's still a fraction of what other top companies are spending to develop their own foundational AI models. Mark Zuckerberg, for example, announced that Meta plans to spend over $60 billion in capital expenditures this year as it doubles down on AI.
According to Bernstein analysts, DeepSeek's model is estimated to be 20 to 40 times cheaper to run than similar models from OpenAI.
The relatively low stated cost of DeepSeek's latest model β combined with its impressive capability β has raised questions about the Silicon Valley strategy of investing billions into data centers and AI infrastructure to train up new models with the latest chips.
Nvidia, a company that produces the high-powered chips crucial to powering AI models, saw its stock close on Monday down nearly 17% on Monday, wiping hundreds of billions from its market cap. Other Big Tech companies have also been impacted.
DeepSeek has also said its models were largely trained on less advanced, cheaper versions of Nvidia chips β and since DeepSeek appears to perform just as well as the competition, that could spell bad news for Nvidia if other tech giants choose to lessen their reliance on the company's most advanced chips.
What are tech leaders saying about DeepSeek?
DeepSeek's success is also getting top tech leaders talking.
LeCun said it's not so much that China's AI advancements are leapfrogging ahead of the US, it's more that "open source models are surpassing proprietary ones."
Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella also weighed in on X.
"Jevons paradox strikes again!" Nadella posted Monday morning, referencing the idea that innovation breeds demand. "As AI gets more efficient and accessible, we will see its use skyrocket, turning it into a commodity we just can't get enough of."
Marc Andreessen, the cofounder of Silicon Valley venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz said in a social media post that "Deepseek R1 is AI's Sputnik moment," referencing the Soviet Union's satellite that shocked the US and helped launch the space race.
How does DeepSeek compare to ChatGPT and what are its shortcomings?
Like o1, DeepSeek's R1 takes complex questions and breaks them down into more manageable tasks.
R1's proficiency in math, code, and reasoning tasks is possible thanks to its use of "pure reinforcement learning," a technique that allows an AI model to learn to make its own decisions based on the environment and incentives.
Business Insider's Tom Carter tested out DeepSeek's R1 and found that it appeared capable of doing much of what ChatGPT can. The app looks similar to that of ChatGPT, with a sparse interface dominated by a text box.
One of the few things R1 is less adept at, however, is answering questions related to sensitive issues in China. For example, when Carter asked DeepSeek about the status of Taiwan, the chatbot tried to steer the topic back to "math, coding, and logic problems," or suggested that Taiwan has been an "integral part of China" for centuries.
A man walks past a fire-ravaged business after the Eaton Fire swept through.
AP Photo/Ethan Swope
The LA fires destroyed thousands of structures, and times are tough for the businesses that remain.
In Malibu, Pasadena, and other areas of LA County, the wealthy were not the only ones affected.
Small business owners report slowing sales and lower foot traffic.
Small businesses are struggling to get up off the mat after the LA fires walloped them β and some owners are asking people to remember that not everyone affected was a wealthy Hollywood star.
In the Pacific Palisades and Malibu alone, which were devastated by the Palisades Fire, there was a 64.7% decrease and a 67.7% decrease, respectively, in businesses open the week the fires started relative to the same week in January of last year. That's according to data collected by Homebase, a small business operations platform.
Similarly, Homebase reported that Altadena and Pasadena, which were hit by the Eaton Fire, saw a 32.5% decrease and a 19.4% decrease in businesses open for the same week relative to January 2024.
Meanwhile, according to Homebase, small businesses across the Los Angeles metropolitan area saw a 5.3% to 8.9% decrease in employee hours worked from January 9 through January 13.
Christopher Tompkins, the owner of Broad Street Oyster Company, opened his first restaurant in Malibu in 2019 and has since expanded to add a coffee and ice cream shop next door and three other locations in Southern California and one in San Francisco.
Just a few weeks ago, he was still reeling from the Franklin Fire, which burned through over 4,000 acres of Malibu in December and forced him to close his doors for the first time in five years, he said.
Christopher Tompkins owns Broad Street Oyster Co., which has five locations in California as well as a coffee and ice cream shop.
Liam Brown
"That felt devastating and also terrifying because everything was so close," Tompkins told Business Insider. "The fire was on our road. The fire was around the restaurant. Personally, I thought we were done for, I thought everything was gone."
Then, when the Palisades Fire broke out two weeks ago, he said he "couldn't believe it."
The Palisades Fire, which started on January 7, burned through 23,000 acres and destroyed over 6,000 structures as simultaneous fires raged across other parts of Los Angeles and Ventura Counties.
The Palisades Fire torched entire neighborhoods.
Axelle/Bauer-Griffin/GC Images via Getty Images
The Palisades Fire forced Tompkins to again close his Malibu location, which is normally open 365 days a year, for over two weeks.
Tompkins said he finally got full utilities, like gas and internet, back over this past weekend, and now, he's doing everything he can to reopen this week under limited hours and with a "skeleton crew."
Though his building was not hit by the fire, being closed for so long has already taken a toll, he said.
Broad Street Oyster Co. in Malibu, California.
Ira Edelman
Tompkins estimates the loss of income from the Malibu location to be around $600,000 to $750,000, not to mention the staff who have been out of work.
He said that out of 55 crew members there, he's only been able to find work for fewer than 10 elsewhere.
"Malibu is a huge generator of revenue for our company. It's our busiest location. It's our first location. It's the one I hold most dear to my heart," he told BI.
And as he's trying to get back up and running, Tompkins wants people to know it's not just the wealthy who've been affected by the devastating fires.
Christopher Tompkins, with his son, looking out at the Palisades Fire from his Malibu restaurant.
Christopher Tompkins
"I don't want that to be the narrative for the rest of Malibu and for the rest of the Pacific Palisades because I personally know some customers of mine who have supported me from day one that live in Pacific Palisades. They are not these rich people on the beach," Tompkins said.
People's lives depend on the many small businesses that line the Pacific Coast Highway, he said, and the small businesses still need customers to stay afloat.
And Barroeta said she worries about people in the restaurant industry who might not have the same access to government help and other resources β especially if they're newer to the country or living off the traditional grid.
The Migration Policy Institute conducted a study in 2019 estimating that in Los Angeles County, the population of unauthorized, employed workers was around 600,000 β and about 15% of those work in the food services, accommodation, arts, entertainment, and recreation sectors.
It's not just businesses near the fire-affected areas that are suffering in the aftermath of what has become one of the costliest natural disasters in US history. Businesses across the city, even those farther away from evacuation zones, have reported things slowing down.
Jack Biebel, who owns Ggiata Delicatessen, told Business Insider that foot traffic at his deli's five locations β in Melrose Hill, West Hollywood, Venice, Highland Park, and Studio City β has been down since the fires started.
Biebel said that having to close his five locations for a total of seven working days the week the fires started had a substantial impact on his business.
His Highland Park location was closed for a few days because of power outages. And for the first few days he reopened it, he closed off the dining room, which normally seats 30 or 40 customers, to turn it into a donation collection center for people affected by the fires.
Jack Biebel turned the dining room at Ggiata's Highland Park location into a donation collection center.
Jack Biebel
More than a dozen owners and managers at restaurants throughout the city told Eater they saw reduced business in the week following the fires. For example, Mark Nechols, the general manager of N/Soto in Mid-City, told the outlet he saw about half as many diners as usual, while Bret Thompson, the chef and partner at Pez Coastal Kitchen in Pasadena, said his restaurant lost 85% of its business in one week following the fires.
Businesses along Lake Avenue were destroyed by the Eaton Fire in Altadena, California, on January 9, 2025
ZoΓ« Meyers/AFP/Getty Images
But there may be some help for those struggling to get back on their feet. For example, the US Small Business Administration has approved $52 million in disaster loans, LA Mayor Karen Bass said Thursday. And LA County has launched both a small business relief fund and a worker relief fund providing grants to eligible applicants.
The Hughes fire erupted in brush and quickly spread to over 10,000 acres.
Brandon Bell/Getty Images
The Hughes fire erupted Wednesday, the latest in a string of large wildfires in Southern California.
As of Thursday evening, the fire covered over 10,300 acres and was 36% contained.
Another small fire broke out overnight along a major freeway, but its forward progress was stopped.
Los Angeles County was bracing itself yet again Thursday after a new fire broke out and spread to more than 10,000 acres.
The Hughes Fire started at about 10:50 a.m. local time Wednesday near Castaic, north of Los Angeles. It was first reported at about 50 acres β but soon mushroomed to more than 10,000 acres by midnight, according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, or Cal Fire.
As of Thursday evening, the fire had burned 10,396 acres and was 36% contained. Firefighters were able to stop significant spread of the flames on Thursday despite continued high wind conditions.
Cal Fire said a second, small blaze also broke out early Thursday just east of a major freeway, the I-405, near Sepulveda Pass.
Air support and "other aggressive actions" were deployed to fight it, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass said.
Named the Sepulveda Fire, burned through 45 acres and was 60% contained as of Thursday evening, Cal Fire said. Its forward progress was stopped within the first few hours, the Los Angeles Fire Department said.
An evacuation warning for the area β which contained a $30 million property owned by Rupert Murdoch, per the Los Angeles Times βΒ has since been lifted.
Another small fire, the Laguna Fire, broke out in Ventura County, northwest of Los Angeles, on Thursday morning. The fire spread to 50 acres but forward progress was quickly stopped, the Ventura County Fire Department said.
The causes of the three fires remain unknown.
For areas near the Hughes Fire, evacuation orders were issued for more than 31,000 people and evacuation warnings were issued for another 23,000 people, officials said at a press conference Wednesday.
The fire threatens more than 14,000 structures, but so far, none have been confirmed damaged or destroyed, the LA County Coordinated Joint Information Center said.
The vital I-5 freeway was also temporarily closed as a result of the Hughes Fire, and some off-ramps in the area remained closed Wednesday evening.
Earlier this month, the Palisades and Eaton Fires tore through the Pacific Palisades, Altadena, and neighboring areas, killing at least 27 people, destroying thousands of homes and other structures, and causing what could amount to $275 billion in damages by AccuWeather's estimate.
Malibu began its repopulation efforts on Wednesday, allowing residents in select evacuation zones to begin returning to their homes with assistance from the fire department, sheriff's department, community response teams, and others.
The region remains at risk as the National Weather Service issued a red flag warning for parts of Los Angeles and Ventura Counties, with dangerous fire weather conditions expected through Friday.
But, the agency is also forecasting rain over the weekend, which would bring relief to any fires still burning.
Several massive wildfires, including the Eaton Fire and the Palisades Fire, devastated parts of Los Angeles and Ventura Counties, destroying over 12,000 structures, likely causing at least 27 reported deaths, and leaving up to $275 billion in damage.
The following has been edited for length and clarity:
I came to the US from Venezuela in 2010 to attend business school at UCLA.
I'm a chemical engineer by trade, but I had to flee Venezuela with the political situation there.
Business at Amara's Cafe in Pasadena has slowed down since the LA fires struck the region.
Amara Barroeta
I always loved our food and the culture of Venezuela. And my restaurant is a way to preserve our cultural heritage β it's something that has brought more purpose to my life.
This is a place that has so many opportunities, but it can be very frustrating being a small business owner in California. I know I'm not going to be rich out of a little restaurant.
I don't need to spend money on clothing, or shoes, or an expensive car. But one of the few things that I want to afford for my family is a good education for my 5-year-old daughter, Barbara.
So I've been sending her to private school at the Oak Knoll Montessori School since she was two years old. They have two campuses β a smaller one on Lake Avenue in Pasadena where they have the toddlers and the little children. And then the main Loma Alta campus near the mountain in Altadena holds children from elementary and middle school.
Barroeta opened her cafe in 2012 after immigrating from Venezuela.
Amara Barroeta
This year, my daughter has still been attending the Lake campus, and she was really looking forward to starting at the "big kid" school next year, which is sort of a second home to all the Lake campus kids.
And now that possibility is gone.
It was chaos as the fires began
The week the fires started, Barbara returned to school from the winter break just for one day β on Tuesday.
That day, the director of the school sent an email saying they're not going to bring the kids to the campus on Wednesday because there's all these winds and they don't know how it's going to pan out.
It was kind of chaos that Wednesday β everybody was trying to make sure their friends and family were safe. And so we were evacuating from our home in Pasadena, driving to this friend's home in Marina Del Rey.
Oak Knoll Montessori School (Loma Alta School) was burned in the Eaton Fire.
Kirby Lee/Getty Images
And this person from the school called me and she was telling me, "No, my house is gone." And we're talking on the phone and she's like, "Most likely, the school is not going to be there anymore."
And Barbara hears that, and she's not saying anything, but when I hang up the phone, she's like, "Is my school gone? Is my house going to be burned?"
So by Wednesday, the school was burned down due to the fires. It was a big shock.
The remains of Oak Knoll Montessori School's Loma Alta campus.
Kirby Lee/Getty Images
The campus on Lake didn't burn down, but it's still full of ashes and it had a lot of smoke damage, so they have to do a big cleanup, and they're still waiting for someone to come and inspect the facilities before it can reopen.
Anybody who goes through something like this, the first thing that happens through your mind is you're paralyzed because you don't know, like, what should I do now?
Thank goodness we didn't lose our home, and we were able to move back into it a few days later, on Saturday.
Oak Knoll Montessori School's Loma Alta campus was destroyed in the fire.
Kirby Lee/Getty Images
Without school last week, my friends came to my house and our kids would keep each other entertained while we worked.
And this week, the school has provided us with this opportunity to have camp for our children from 8:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.
But right now, we still don't know what's going to happen for next week.
And for next year, I don't know what the future holds for these schools. I'm still trying to see where I'm going to send my daughter.
Barroeta's daughter was looking forward to attending the "big kid school" next year.
Amara Barroeta
The tuition at Oak Knoll is about $19,000 a year, which is in the lower end for any private school in the area, but that was about as much as I could afford.
My business has suffered since the LA fires
Since the fires started, my cafe has been seeing about 20% of our normal business, on top of being closed completely for three days.
I don't think there's any way that we can recover from those losses. It feels like COVID all over again.
I'm struggling to pay my employees and run my business. And I've supported my crew in difficult times for our business in the past, but this time around, I don't have the same amount of cash in my account to pay for their regular hours.
I haven't cut any positions completely, but I'm just trying to give them 60% of the hours or 70% of the hours that they normally have.
Amara Barroeta at her cafe in Pasadena.
Amara Barroeta
So with the business looking as it's looking right now, I have to think that public school is going to be the definite choice for my daughter. I can't really do the economic commitment that I had planned for my daughter's education anymore, so now the plan is going to change.
I've been submitting all the paperwork for the Pasadena Unified School District lottery to see if I can get her into one of the dual-immersion programs, which are bilingual, for the next year. And then, of course, we also have our local school, but we don't know how those are going to be β thinking that there are also schools in Altadena and Pasadena that were lost, that got burned and were affected by the fires.
When a situation drives you to do something different than you had planned, that is not necessarily bad. It's just different and it will make you work harder. And that's OK β I've been through that. When I left my country, I knew that nothing is entitled to you because you're born somewhere, or you're born a certain way, or you have a certain education.
What I want my daughter to learn from this is that the only things people can't take away from you is your soul, your values, and your education. After a fire, there's so many things that can happen and can strip you away from your privileges, but that is what remains, and that's what will help you build your future again.
Despite her loss, Verreault says she's continuing to work because her clients need her.
This as-told-to essay is based on a conversation with Sue Verreault, a 55-year-old psychologist who lost her dream home in Altadena, California, in the Eaton Fire, which began on January 7.
Several massive wildfires, including the Eaton Fire and the Palisades Fire, have devastated parts of Los Angeles and Ventura Counties, destroying over 12,000 structures, likely causing at least 27 reported deaths, and leaving up to $275 billion in damage.
The following has been edited for length and clarity:
I found out about the fire on social media
I first became aware of the fires on Tuesday night when I got on social media and noticed that there was a fire coming down from the mountain ridge toward the foothills of Altadena where I live.
I have a family living in my back house, and we could see that the fire was behind our house, and there were other houses that were starting to catch on fire.
We knew that with the embers flying around, that it was any moment that we would be in danger. There was a lot of smoke. It was really bad, and with the winds being about a hundred miles an hour, it was a high risk.
And my three dogs were just so scared.
Verreault's house in Altadena before it was hit by the Eaton Fire.
Sue Verreault
The only thing I could fit in my car was just my dogs, and what I could pack in my passenger seat.
There was part of me that thought, they won't let all these houses burn, it's going to be OK. I just need to get to safety right now, and we'll come back when it's safe.
It wasn't until after the fact, at 4:30 in the morning, that I got a "Leave now!" evacuation order. But it was too late.
After spending the night at a coworker's house, I tried to go to my house in the morning. Just while driving on the freeway, you couldn't see anything.
When I turned onto my street, I saw fire. I could only get about a block and a half away from my house. And then the smoke was touching the ground.
It was like a solid brick wall from the sky to the ground of just black soot and smoke.
Firefighters battled the Eaton Fire in strong winds as many homes burned on January 7.
David McNew/Getty Images
I could see that there was no one there except for one firetruck. It was like a wasteland. I couldn't believe it.
I saw this pickup truck on fire on the side of the road, and I knew, I had the feeling then, that my house was gone and I couldn't go any further.
'This was our oasis' β and then there was cancer
My partner, Jamie, and I bought the house in 2008 for $760,000 and it was now worth about $1.6 million. When it was built in 1909, it was one of the main houses there in Altadena.
That home was our oasis.
We had a beautiful backyard, plants, a hot tub. We were doing gardening and renovations. We took in rescue dogs that needed help along the way because we had a half-acre. It was our sanctuary.
And then when Jamie got diagnosed with terminal cancer in 2010, she got sick pretty quickly, and the renovations stopped.
She was my everything, and then when she died, that house was my connection to her and my way of honoring her by continuing the renovations.
Verreault and her partner committed to renovating the old house, the back of which is seen here.
Sue Verreault
I left a lot of things behind, like my grandmother's perfume that smelled like her, and especially things of Jamie's that I cherish.
I had her clothes. I had her ashes in a necklace and partially spread in our backyard. That's gone. But she's in my heart. She'll always be there.
Last Saturday, my friends took me to see what was left of my house, and if there was anything we could salvage.
When I looked at my house, and I climbed my concrete stairs, and I saw the devastation βΒ everything gone βΒ and I saw my fireplace standing, I collapsed to the ground.
Verreault and her partner Jamie, left.
Sue Verreault
I just felt desperation. I felt this deep, deep, deep, deep loss. And the first thing I thought of was Jamie.
I couldn't breathe. I was having a panic attack, and I was throwing up.
I put my savings into that house. That was my retirement. I put everything into that house. And because of all the upgrades I did, my mortgage payments are over $4,000 a month, and now I'm going to have to pay for rent.
That's really torturing me because I don't think I can afford to rebuild. I don't know what I should do because I may have to sell the land to not have to file bankruptcy.
I still feel like I need to go to work and help people
I'm 55 β I don't have much more time before retirement, and I'm starting over in a negative, so that's hard to even think about right now, especially when I've worked so hard just helping other people.
I work 14-hour days as a supervising psychologist for the LA County Department of Public Health, and then as a private practitioner in the evenings.
The property where Verreault's house once stood.
Sue Verreault
I went back to work on Monday. It's a good distraction and there's so many people that are in so much need right now, and in more dire need than I am.
I've been with some of these clients for a couple years, and this is also their pain because they live in these areas, or they're displaced.
So I just don't feel like I can stop working right now.
Verreault's fireplace was left standing.
Sue Verreault
I want people to know that this will pass, and it'll make you stronger. It's a mindset. Only you can carry yourself through by asking for help β and accepting the help.
That was the hardest thing for me β people I didn't even know were giving me money to help me, and to accept that help was just really hard.
But it's the compassion of strangers that's giving me hope.
Though winds are forecast to die down this week, they could pick up again next week.
The fires have burned through 40,000 acres and could have caused up to $275 billion in damage.
Los Angeles officials said Wednesday that they'd generally been able to keep the wildfires ravaging the area from spreading further β but they warned the region isn't in the clear yet.
Extreme fire danger conditions were forecast to continue through at least Wednesday evening local time, the National Weather Service said. Meteorologists said conditions could improve on Thursday.
More than 8,500 firefighters have been marshaled to fight the blazes, which have caused at least 25 reported deaths.
LA fires rage on for a ninth day
Firefighters have been working to stop the blazes from spreading.
Benjamin Fanjoy/Getty Images
Officials said Wednesday that, over the past 24 hours, winds had not been as bad as expected, but the area still faced dangerous conditions.
The LA County Fire Department said Wednesday morning that a "red flag" warning for the Eaton Fire, one of the major blazes, had been extended into the evening. It said that the Santa Ana winds will gradually subside throughout the day, but very dry conditions will likely persist through Thursday.
"The anticipated 70-mile-an-hour winds have yet to materialize," Anthony Marrone, the Los Angeles County Fire Department chief, said at a Wednesday briefing. "However, this could change, and we are still at risk."
And though conditions may improve in the next few days, weather forecasters are already sounding the alarm for potential critical fire weather conditions beginning again toward the middle of next week.
The Palisades and the Eaton Fires β the two largest at 23,712 acres and 14,117 acres β were 19% and 45% contained as of Wednesday evening, according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, or CalFire. The Hurst Fire, at 799 acres, was almost fully contained, it said.
Los Angeles County Robert Luna said that as of Wednesday morning, fewer people were under evacuation orders, noting 82,400 people affected. Evacuation warnings had risen slightly because of the winds, up to 92,400.
Looting, burglary, arson, and price gouging are hitting the area
National Guard soldiers standing guard at an area struck by the Palisades Fire.
LA officials have reported suspected instances of looting, burglary, and other crimes in wildfire-ravaged areas.
Sheriff Luna said Wednesday that his officers had made 44 arrests related to the Eaton and Palisades Fires, including for suspected burglary, trespassing, curfew violation, possession of guns and narcotics, and impersonating a firefighter.
In addition to those arrests, Los Angeles Police Department Chief Jim McDonnell said Wednesday that his department had made 14 arrests related to the fires β for things like suspected felony vandalism, impersonating a firefighter, possession of burglary tools, and shoplifting.
There have also been a few cases of suspected arson, officials said.
In one suspected case on Tuesday evening, a bystander caught someone starting a fire near the edge of the Hurst Fire zone and detained them until officers arrived, McDonnell said. The bystander had already put out the fire by the time officers got there, and the suspect was taken into custody where McDonnell said he admitted to sparking the fire because "he liked the smell of burning leaves."
Another person was booked on suspicion of arson that day after McDonnell said she admitted to starting multiple rubbish and trash fires because she said she "enjoyed causing chaos and destruction."
Los Angeles County District Attorney Nathan Hochman said his office has seen instances of price gouging on medical supplies and hotels, as well as landlords overcharging above the legal limit.
Preliminary estimates from AccuWeather peg the total damage and economic losses associated with the Southern California wildfires at up to $275 billion.
That would make the fires more economically damaging than the Maui wildfires from 2023, which AccuWeather said caused up to $16 billion in damages β and more destructive than 2024's Hurricane Helene, which caused $225 to $250 billion in damages, according to AccuWeather's estimate.
AccuWeather's estimate accounts for more than just damage to buildings and infrastructure β it also includes the expected financial impact of evacuation orders, the long-term cost of rebuilding or relocation for people whose homes were destroyed, anticipated cleanup and recovery costs, emergency shelter expenses, immediate and long-term healthcare costs for those who were injured or exposed to unhealthy air quality, as well as lost wages for people whose jobs will have been affected.
Meanwhile, according to Goldman Sachs, the total damage from the LA fires could rank among the top 20 costliest natural disasters in US history in terms of GDP.
Rising prices, which experts say will now likely only get worse, have forced some residents to go without insurance entirely β and for those impacted by the fires, the recovery costs will be significant.
Looking beyond the destruction of the LA fires
The Palisades Fire torched entire neighborhoods.
Axelle/Bauer-Griffin/GC Images via Getty Images
LA officials are already looking beyond the fires, despite firefighters still struggling to put out the larger blazes fully.
On Tuesday, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass issued an executive order to speed up the city's building permit review process. The order calls for reviews to be completed within 30 days of submission.
The executive order also aims to streamline processes for clearing debris.
Wildfires continued to ravage parts of the Los Angeles area on Tuesday.
Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images
Firefighters are bracing for deadly new winds as the LA fires enter their second week.
The fires have burned more than 40,000 acres. One figure estimates up to $275 billion in damage.
More than 88,000 people were under evacuation orders β and 84,000 under warnings on Tuesday.
Parts of Los Angeles remain engulfed in flames Tuesday as high winds persisted and officials warned that things weren't likely to get better anytime soon.
And as the fires left misery and destruction in their wake, they could end up causing up to $275 billion in economic damage and losses, according to a new estimate from AccuWeather.
That would make the Los Angeles fires more economically damaging than the Maui wildfires from 2023, which AccuWeather said caused up to $16 billion in damages β and more destructive than 2024's Hurricane Helene, which caused $225 to $250 billion in damages, according to AccuWeather's estimate.
Meanwhile, Los Angeles City's Fire Chief Kristin Crowley said Tuesday that the area was nowhere near in the clear: "Life-threatening and destructive and widespread winds are already here," she said.
The National Weather Service said conditions were ripe for "extreme" fire danger through at least Tuesday β and warned of "critical" conditions on Wednesday throughout much of Southern California.
One piece of potentially good news: Winds, which have been spreading the fires and also making it more challenging to fight them, were expected to generally weaken by Wednesday evening.
Tallying the destruction in the wake of the LA fires
AccuWeather's estimate accounts for more than just damage to buildings and infrastructure β it also includes the expected financial impact of evacuation orders, the long-term cost of rebuilding or relocation for people whose homes were destroyed, anticipated cleanup and recovery costs, emergency shelter expenses, immediate and long-term healthcare costs for those who were injured or exposed to unhealthy air quality, as well as lost wages for people whose jobs will have been affected.
Since the fires first broke out on January 7, firefighters have contained several smaller blazes in Los Angeles County, but the three largest β the Palisades, Eaton, and Hurst fires β spanned a combined 38,629 acres as of Tuesday morning, with limited containment.
Around 88,000 people were under evacuation orders, and an additional 84,000 are under evacuation warnings as of Tuesday morning, Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna said.
Luna noted that while the evacuation numbers have decreased since Monday, "it is still very dangerous for the next 24 hours, so we're keeping a very close eye."
Winds pose 'extreme fire danger'
High winds can spread current fires and spark new ones, like the Auto Fire seen here on January 13.
Etienne Laurent/AFP via Getty Images
The National Weather Service of Los Angeles warned of "critical to extremely critical fire-weather conditions" that could continue across parts of Ventura and Los Angeles Counties through Wednesday.
More than 8,500 firefighters have been marshaled to fight the fires, which have so far caused at least 25 reported deaths and destroyed more than 12,000 structures, which include homes, buildings, cars, and sheds.
Palisades Fire
A mobile home community devastated by the Palisades Fire, seen on January 13.
Agustin Paullier/AFP via Getty Images
The Palisades Fire in the Pacific Palisades area north of Santa Monica has burned through over 23,700 acres and was 17% contained as of Tuesday night, according to Cal Fire.
The cause of the fire, the first to start last week, is still under investigation. The area is home to a large number of celebrities whose homes were destroyed in the disaster.
The Los Angeles County Medical Examiner's Office has received reports of eight deaths tied to the Palisades fire so far.
Eaton Fire
Houses and cars burned in the Eaton Fire in Altadena.
Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images
The Eaton Fire, which has devastated parts of Pasadena and Altadena since it began last week, has now burned through more than 14,100 acres, according to Cal Fire. It is 35% contained as of Tuesday night.
"It's one thing to see it on television, it's another thing to see it from air," Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass said at a Tuesday morning briefing, referencing the devastation she saw throughout the region during an aerial tour. "The massive, massive destruction is unimaginable until you actually see it."
The Los Angeles County Medical Examiner's Office has received reports of 17 deaths tied to the Eaton fire so far.
Hurst Fire and others
The Hurst Fire burned a hillside above a residential community in Sylmar on January 8.
The Hurst Fire, which began last week in the northern part of the San Fernando Valley, spread to 799 acres and was 97% contained as of Tuesday night, Cal Fire said.
The Auto Fire, which erupted Monday night in Ventura, had burned through 56 acres, with 25% containment. The fire's forward progress was stopped and no structures remained threatened, officials at Ventura County Fire Department said early Tuesday.
After burning over 1,400 acres combined, several other fires have been 100% contained, including: the Kenneth Fire near the border of Los Angeles and Ventura Counties, the Sunset Fire in the Hollywood Hills, the Lidia Fire near Antelope Valley, and the Woodley Fire in the south San Fernando Valley.
This is a developing story. Please refresh for updates.