• 3,800 North Koreans have been killed or wounded fighting alongside Russia, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said.
• But Ukraine's president told the Lex Fridman podcast that hundreds of thousands more could arrive.
• The estimate came amid a discussion of the danger to Europe if the US leaves NATO.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a podcast interview released Sunday that 3,800 North Korean soldiers had been killed or wounded in Russia's Kursk region to date.

Zelenskyy's figure suggests that a third of the North Korean troops brought over to fight alongside Russia have been taken out of action.

"12,000 has arrived. Today, 3,800 killed or wounded," he told podcaster Lex Fridman, but he cautioned that North Korea could send many more, giving a figure as high as half a million troops.

Estimates of North Korean casualties have varied since intelligence agencies reported in October that it was sending troops to help Russian President Vladimir Putin defend territory seized by Ukraine in the summer.

In late December, the White House estimated that more than 1,000 North Koreans had been killed or wounded in the space of a single week, amid mass dismounted attacks.

And in his nightly address on Saturday, Zelenskyy said that the Russian army had lost "up to a battalion of infantry, including North Korean soldiers and Russian paratroopers," in fighting in the village of Makhnovka in Kursk.

Concerns for Europe

Zelenskyy offered the latest casualty figures as part of a broader argument about the dangers to Europe if the US retreats from NATO.

President-elect Donald Trump has long been critical of NATO and the defense spending of some of its members, leading to concerns that he could slash support for the alliance or even walk away.

Zelenskyy said that if Trump decides to leave NATO once back in office, "Putin will destroy Europe."

He also argued that European countries are much less willing and able to raise massive armies compared to an autocracy like North Korea.

While Ukraine has around 980,000 military personnel, the militaries of its European allies are a fraction of the size, Zelenskyy said.

"Can Europe bring people together? No," he said. "Will Europe be able to build an army consisting of two to three million people? No, Europe will not want to do this."

Dmytro Ponomarenko, Ukraine's ambassador to South Korea, told Voice of America in November that the number of North Korean troops aiding Russia could soon reach 15,000, with troops rotated out every two to three months.

That could mean about 100,000 North Korean soldiers serving in Russia within a year, he added.

• Ukraine's new attack in Kursk is featuring some impressive drone jamming, Russian military bloggers said.
• The bloggers reported that Ukrainian forces were able to break through because of "powerful electronic warfare."
• it's made it difficult for Russian drone operators to work in the area, they wrote.

Ukraine launched a renewed offensive in Russia's Kursk region on Sunday, where Russian pro-war bloggers say Kyiv's drone jammers have been working exceptionally well.

The "Operation Z" channel, a collection of dispatches from Russian war correspondents, wrote that the attack had focused on the Bolshesoldatsky district, to the northeast of the Ukrainian-held pocket in Kursk.

"In order to break through, the Ukrainian Armed Forces covered the area with powerful electronic warfare systems, making it difficult for our UAVs to operate," wrote the Telegram channel, which has over 1.6 million subscribers.

Razvedos Advanced Gear & Equipment, a Russian military news Telegram channel with over 152,000 subscribers, echoed those comments in a post on Sunday.

"It cannot be said that they were not expected in this direction, but they managed to VERY effectively use electronic warfare," it wrote of the fighting in Bolshesoldatsky.

Roman Alekhine, a military blogger with about 218,000 subscribers, wrote on his channel: "The enemy has covered the attack area with electronic warfare, so many drones are useless."

Alekhine later posted that some Russian drone operators were still able to switch to unjammed frequencies.

Sergei Kolyasnikov, another military blogger with about 498,000 subscribers, reported that about 10 Ukrainian tanks and armored vehicles had entered the Bolshesoldatsky region.

"The area is covered with some powerful electronic warfare, nothing is flying at all," he wrote.

The specifics of Ukraine's new push this week into Russian territory are still unclear. Kyiv initially launched a surprise counteroffensive into Kursk in August, where it took an estimated 480 square miles of Russian land but has been slowly pushed back since.

Ukraine has stayed mostly silent on the matter. But Andriy Kovalenko, head of the Center for Countering Disinformation run by Ukraine's national security and defense council, alluded to an assault on Sunday by posting that Russian troops in Kursk "were attacked from several directions and it came as a surprise to them."

Andriy Yermak, chief of staff for Ukraine's president, also hinted at an attack by writing on his Telegram channel that Russia was "getting what it deserves" in Kursk.

Meanwhile, Russia has outright declared that Ukraine had attacked again.

"On January 5, at about 09:00 Moscow time, in order to stop the advance of Russian troops in the Kursk direction, the enemy launched a counterattack with an assault group consisting of two tanks, a barrier vehicle, and 12 combat armored vehicles with troops in the direction of the Berdin farm," its defense ministry told state media.

As reports of Ukraine's jamming efforts emerged, the defense ministry published a video of a Russian drone operator coordinating a tank strike on an unknown target in a forested area, saying he was working in Kursk.

The Ukrainian and Russian Defense Ministries did not respond to requests for comment sent outside regular business hours by Business Insider.

Electronic warfare has increasingly been key on the battlefield as both Russia and Ukraine turn to cheap drones for reconnaissance, loitering munitions, and close-range bombing runs.

One development has seen both sides deploy wired drones. These use long fiber optic cables unfurled from a spool as the aerial system takes flight, allowing it to bypass jamming systems.

Should they become mainstream, they may pose yet another challenge for militaries that are already spending big on preparing against drone threats. The US, for example, is paying some $250 million to Anduril, Palmer Luckey's defense startup, for 500 drones and an electronic warfare system called Pulsar.

• Ukrainian forces appear to have launched a new offensive in Russia's Kursk region.
• Russia's Ministry of Defense said Ukraine had launched a "counterattack" at around 9 a.m. local time.
• A Ukrainian official said Russia was "getting what it deserves."

Ukrainian forces appear to have launched a new offensive in the Russian border region of Kursk.

Russia's Ministry of Defense said in a post on Telegram that Ukraine had launched a "counterattack" at around 9 a.m. local time.

"In order to halt the advance of Russian troops in the Kursk direction, the enemy launched a counterattack by an assault group consisting of two tanks, a demolition vehicle, and twelve armored combat vehicles," it said.

In a short post on Telegram, Andrii Yermak, the head of Ukraine's presidential office, said: "Kursk, good news, Russia is getting what it deserves."

The scale of the reported offensive is unclear. Ukraine launched an initial incursion into Kursk in August.

Rybar, a Russian war blog with more than 1.3 million subscribers, said that the latest operation could serve as a diversion. The US government has offered up to $10 million for information on Rybar, saying it had attempted "to bolster Russia's military capabilities and advance pro-Russian and anti-Western narratives."

"The intensification of the situation in the Kursk region may be a diversionary maneuver for a simultaneous offensive by the Ukrainian Armed Forces in other areas," read a post on Rybar's account.

"The Ukrainian command has been hatching plans for several months to break through the defense of the Russian Armed Forces in the Zaporizhzhia region and is probing for weak spots," it added.

It comes at a potentially pivotal moment for Kyiv as it gears up for the return of President-elect Donald Trump to the White House.

Both Russia and Ukraine are racing to place their respective sides in the best possible position ahead of Trump's return.

Trump has pledged to bring the war in Ukraine to a swift end but has not detailed how he intends to do so.

Analysts say one possibility is a negotiated cease-fire deal with frozen front lines.

In a post on Truth Social in December, Trump called for an immediate cease-fire and the start of negotiations.

"Zelenskyy and Ukraine would like to make a deal and stop the madness," he wrote, adding: "It can turn into something much bigger, and far worse. I know Vladimir well. This is his time to act."

• More than 100 elite North Korean troops were killed in their first battles in Russia, per South Korean intel.
• About 1,000 more were wounded in the fighting, South Korea's National Intelligence Service said.
• The troops are ill-prepared for drone attacks and the local terrain, the agency added.

More than 100 of North Korea's best "Storm" troops have been killed and 1,000 more injured fighting alongside Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, South Korean intelligence said.

South Korea's National Intelligence Service told lawmakers on Thursday that the troops' losses came in their first battles for Russia, The New York Times reported.

Lee Seong-kweun, a South Korean lawmaker, also told reporters that a general-ranking officer could be among the dead, the report said.

North Korean troops arrived in Russia in October. Ukraine said the following month that it attacked North Korean forces for the first time.

Since then, North Korean troop losses have mounted. On Monday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that based on preliminary estimates, over 3,000 North Korean soldiers had been killed or wounded in Russia's Kursk region.

North Korean troops are primarily fighting in that region, where Ukraine launched an offensive in August.

North Korea's Storm Corps are among the most well-trained in Pyongyang's military, as well as the most indoctrinated, the Times reported.

Despite that elite status, they were still not ready for the fight in Ukraine, South Korea's National Intelligence Service said.

The agency told lawmakers that they were poorly prepared for drone attacks and the local terrain.

It's not the first time reports have suggested North Korea's forces are ill-prepared for the war.

The BBC reported that the Storm troops get more advanced training than other soldiers, but they're still underfed and some appear malnourished.

Ukrainian officials and soldiers have also said that North Korean troops have been killed by drones that they did not realize were dangerous.

Ukrainian intelligence previously reported that North Korean troops accidentally killed eight Russian soldiers in Kursk, describing it as a "friendly fire" incident caused by a language barrier.

South Korea's National Intelligence Service told lawmakers that North Korean troops were sent to Russia so quickly that Moscow could not properly integrate them into the military. They only learned a few military phrases in Russian, such as "open fire," "artillery," and "in position," before being sent to battle.

But warfare experts warn that the troops' potential impact should not be dismissed, especially given that Russia's tactics have been to use poorly trained soldiers to overwhelm Ukraine.

For its part, Ukraine is reportedly trying to get North Korean troops to surrender, making videos and dropping leaflets on troops in a bid to get them to desert. It has also warned that Russia will treat North Korean troops like disposable cannon fodder, as it appears to have done with many of its own troops.

However, South Korea's National Intelligence Service said that North Korea appeared to be preparing to put more troops in Russia, the Times reported.

Zelenskyy also predicted that North Korean soldiers would be sent to the front lines in Ukraine at some point.

• North Korean troops don't realize drones are dangerous and are sitting ducks, Ukraine troops said.
• They have engaged in combat against Ukrainian troops in Kursk, per US and Ukraine officials.
• A couple hundred were killed or wounded in combat in the Kursk region, a US official said.

Ukrainian officials and soldiers told The Washington Post that North Korea's troops are frequently getting killed by drones they don't seem to consider dangerous.

The accounts point to an apparent gap in the knowledge of the troops sent by Kim Jong Un to support Russia's invasion.

The prevalence and effectiveness of drones is a defining feature of the war in Ukraine, and experienced soldiers there have described to Business Insider a widespread fear of them.

But North Korea's troops are new to the war, separated by a language barrier, and appear not to have the same approach.

Three Ukrainian soldiers fighting in the Kursk region of Russia told the Post that waves of what seemed to be North Korean forces advanced directly at Ukrainian positions defended by drones and other weapons.

"We were very surprised; we had never seen anything like it — 40 to 50 people running across a field," one drone commander told the Post.

"FPV drones, artillery, and other weapons struck them because they were moving in the open field," he said. "You can imagine the result."

Another drone operator, Artem, told the outlet that instead of running away from the drones, the North Korean troops shot at them "indiscriminately," while others just kept moving. Many were killed, he said.

During a nighttime drone operation, Artem said he recognized three soldiers based on their heat signatures on a thermal camera and anticipated killing only one — but when the other two failed to react fast enough, he and his comrades struck all three.

He described the experience as "bizarre," adding, "It was the first time it felt like playing a computer simulator on easy mode."

On Monday, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said North Korean troops had moved to the front lines and were "actively engaged in combat operations."

During a press briefing that same day, Pentagon press secretary Maj. Gen. Patrick Ryder said they had indications that North Korean soldiers engaged in combat in Kursk had suffered losses.

At least 30 North Korean soldiers were killed or wounded during assault operations near the villages of Plekhovo, Vorozhba, and Martynovka in or near the Kursk region last weekend, Ukraine's military intelligence (GUR) said on Monday.

A couple hundred North Korean troops were killed or wounded in combat in the Kursk region, a senior military official told the Associated Press on Tuesday.

On Tuesday, the GUR said North Korean troops had set up extra observation posts, fearing Ukrainian drone attacks after suffering serious losses.

• Ukraine said that North Korean troops had accidentally killed 8 Russian soldiers in Kursk.
• Ukrainian intelligence said it was a "friendly fire" incident caused by a language barrier.
• Experts previously told BI that language issues would pose a challenge for the military alliance.

Eight Russian soldiers were killed by North Korean forces in a recent "friendly fire" incident in Kursk, according to Ukrainian intelligence.

North Korean soldiers opened fire on Russian military vehicles, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine said on Saturday, attributing it to a language barrier between the two forces.

It didn't say when the incident took place, but added that language barriers continue to be a "difficult obstacle" for Russian and North Korean personnel, per The Kyiv Independent's translation.

Business Insider could not independently verify the report.

North Korea has sent thousands of troops to aid Russia in its fight against Ukraine, officials from South Korea, Ukraine, and the US have said.

Dmytro Ponomarenko, Ukraine's ambassador to South Korea, told Voice of America last month that the number could reach 15,000, with troops rotated out every two to three months. He said a cumulative 100,000 North Korean soldiers could serve in Russia within a year.

Experts on the relationship between the two states have previously said that the language difference between North Korean and Russian soldiers would be a key logistical issue.

Joseph S. Bermudez Jr., an expert in North Korean defense at the Center for International and Strategic Studies, told BI that though the two countries have historical ties, they rarely learn each other's language.

"To conduct combat operations with an allied force that doesn't speak your language presents real problems," he said.

North Korean soldiers have been sent to aid Russian forces in Kursk, an area of Russia that was partially occupied by Ukraine in August.

The North Korean soldiers are reported to have been scattered across various Russian units and had already come under Ukrainian fire as of early November.

Audio intercepted by Defense Intelligence of Ukraine in October suggested a chaotic start to the Russia-North Korea partnership, not least because of language difficulties.

In the intercepted audio, a Russian soldier complained about leaders having "no fucking clue" what to do with the new troops and remarked that they had been allocated one interpreter per 30 soldiers.

The soldiers reportedly killed in the friendly fire incident were from the Ahmat battalion, Ukrainian intelligence said — a group under the control of Chechen warlord and Putin loyalist Ramzan Kadyrov.

"Kadyorovites," as they are known, have been fighting in Kursk since August, according to reports.

Ukraine initially seized a large swathe of Kursk in its surprise cross-border raid — around 500 square miles — but Russian forces have retaken about 40% of that land, a senior Ukrainian military source told Reuters in late November.

• Ukraine is making videos and dropping leaflets on North Korean troops to get them to surrender.
• North Korea has sent thousands of soldiers to help Russia in its war against Ukraine, per sources.
• "Many see it as a chance to escape the regime," the project's spokesman told Euronews.

Ukraine is trying to persuade North Korean soldiers to surrender rather than fight alongside Russia.

Ukrainian intelligence services have been distributing leaflets via drones and projectiles, and making videos urging North Korean troops to desert, according to Euronews.

Vitality Matvienko, spokesperson for the "I Want to Live" project, told Euronews that "of course, not everyone wants to fight."

"We know very well the living conditions in North Korea," he said. "Therefore, many see it as a chance to escape the regime and go to another country."

Ukraine is carrying out its efforts under "I Want to Live," a service that has facilitated Russian soldiers' surrender. In October 2022, Russia blocked access to its hotline and chatbot, though it is still accessible in the country via VPN.

North Korea has sent thousands of troops to aid Russia in its fight against Ukraine, per officials from South Korea, Ukraine, and the US.

Dmytro Ponomarenko, Ukraine's ambassador to South Korea, told Voice of America last month that the number could reach 15,000, with troops rotated out every two to three months, with a cumulative 100,000 North Korean soldiers serving in Russia within a year.

Ukraine's "I Want to Live" project told Business Insider the leaflets state that Kim Il Sung — North Korea's founder — does not want North Korean soldiers to fight for Russian "imperialists."

The leaflets also contain step-by-step instructions on how to surrender, with guarantees and benefits for those prisoners of war, it said.

It declined to disclose other methods being used to convince North Korean troops to surrender.

"I Want to Live" posted a video on its Telegram channel earlier this month showing a North Korean volunteer in the Ukrainian armed forces calling on his countrymen to take their chance.

"We will not just welcome you but help you start a new life," he said. "Support, work, and the opportunity to live a decent life are waiting for you here. Even money, so you can start your way with a clean slate."

The text accompanying the video said Ukraine guaranteed all prisoners humane treatment. "Far away from 'Big Brother,' who watches over all the inhabitants of North Korea, it is a sin not to take advantage of this unique opportunity," it said.

In October, Ukraine's military intelligence agency put out a statement with the promise of providing comfortable beds and warm meals to North Korean soldiers who surrendered.

It also published a Korean-language video showcasing its prisoner-of-war camps, as well as the meals served there.

Last month, South Korean intelligence estimated that Russia was paying about $2,000 a month for each soldier.

But Bruce W. Bennett, a defense researcher and North Korea specialist at RAND, told BI that he suspects the money is going directly to North Korea's ruling elite.

"Perhaps only a small amount or even nothing" will go to the soldiers themselves, he said.