• Jane Goodall, 91, says she was objectified by her male peers early in her career.
• "Back then, all I wanted was to get back to the chimps. So if my legs were getting me the money, thank you legs," she said.
• While her experience happened years ago, gender inequality persists in the workplace.

Jane Goodall, 91, may be one of the world's leading primatologists now, but there was a time when she wasn't being taken seriously.

During an appearance on Tuesday's "Call Her Daddy" podcast, Goodall reflected on the challenges she faced in her decadeslong career.

Goodall told podcast host Alex Cooper that her love for animals started when she read "Tarzan of the Apes" as a child.

"Anyway, I knew there wasn't a Tarzan. But that's when my dream began," Goodall said. "I will grow up, go to Africa, live with wild animals, and write books — no thought of being a scientist."

Most people around her thought her dream was unrealistic, except her mother, she said.

"And everybody said, 'That's ridiculous. I mean, you don't have money. Africa's far away and you're just a girl,'" Goodall said.

Years later, Goodall appeared on the cover of National Geographic.

She recalled being objectified by others in the scientific community who said that her looks, not her research, earned her the spotlight.

"Well, some of the jealous male scientists would say, well, you know, she's just got this notoriety and she's getting money from Geographic, and they want her on the cover, and they wouldn't put her on the cover if she didn't have nice legs," Goodall said.

If someone had said that today, they'd be sued, she added.

"Back then, all I wanted was to get back to the chimps. So if my legs were getting me the money, thank you legs. And if you look at those covers, they were jolly nice legs," Goodall said.

The English conservationist acknowledged that things are different now.

"I did it by accepting that, in a way, they were right. So, thank you for giving me this advantage. It was good to give me that money," Goodall said. "I know that for me it was a long time ago. It was a different era. It wouldn't work today. "

While Goodall's experience may have unfolded years ago, gender inequality persists in the workplace.

Sexism at work comes in many forms, including wage disparities, stereotypes, and harassment.

Several female celebrities have also spoken up about the discrimination they faced in Hollywood.

In an interview with Porter magazine in November 2023, Anne Hathaway said she was told her career would "fall off a cliff" after she turned 35.

In January 2024, Sofia Vergara told the LA Times that her acting jobs were limited because of her "stupid accent."

Kathy Bates told Variety in September that she could have a long acting career only because she "wasn't a beauty queen."

A representative for Goodall did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Hailey Bieber says she experienced postpartum body dysmorphia after giving birth.
• It took her some time to accept that her body wouldn't look the way it used to.
• "You're not the same person that you were before. You change head to toe," she said.

Hailey Bieber is done pretending that becoming a new mom is easy.

In an interview with Vogue published on Tuesday, the Rhode Skin founder spoke about her childbirth and postpartum experiences. In August, she welcomed her son, Jack Blues, with her husband, Justin Bieber.

Bieber told Vogue that she struggled with postpartum body dysmorphia after giving birth.

"When people talk about 'bouncing back' — back where, because my hips are wider, my boobs are actually bigger than they were before. They did not go back. And great, I'll take it, but it's not the same body that it was before," Bieber said.

She added that she fell into the cycle of looking up mean comments online about her appearance, only to end up feeling even worse about herself.

It took her some time to accept that her body wouldn't look how it used to, she said.

"You're not the same person that you were before. You change head to toe. And I think there was a minute where I kept really hyper-fixating on getting back to what I was. And then I had to go through that acceptance of, I'm not going back. So it's really about how do I want to move forward? Who do I want to be?" Bieber said.

Her difficult postpartum journey was compounded by the internet rumours surrounding her marriage.

She said people speculating online that she was going through a divorce made it even worse. "I cannot even begin to explain it. It's a crazy life to live," she said.

"Being postpartum is the most sensitive time I've ever gone through in my life, and learning a new version of myself is very difficult," Bieber said.

Postpartum typically refers to the first six to eight weeks after giving birth. During that time, a lot changes in a woman's body. New moms might deal with things like breast engorgement or vaginal bleeding, and some also experience postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety.

Bieber isn't the only celebrity mom who has spoken about her postpartum experience.

Lindsay Lohan said in a March 2024 interview that she doesn't feel pressured to "snap back" to her old body after giving birth.

"I feel like everything always comes full circle again, so this is that moment, and this, too, shall pass," she said.

In a March interview, Ashley Tisdale said that welcoming her second child was a chance to experience motherhood again since she felt "robbed" of her first experience due to postpartum depression, or PPD.

A representative for Bieber did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Michelle Williams knows how challenging it is to be a working mother.
• She says balancing her career and motherhood is like figuring out "which master you're going to serve."
• "Because the truth is, if work is going well, somebody else is taking care of the kids," she said.

Michelle Williams knows balancing her acting career with being a mom is tough.

During a Monday appearance on the "Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard" podcast, Williams, 44, shared how she juggles life as a mother of four while keeping her acting career on track.

"Kids are such great life checkers. They force you to put your best self in front of them," she told podcast host Dax Shepard. "You can't abdicate your life and your work and your own desires, but you do have to put them in check and figure out which master you're going to serve."

The "Brokeback Mountain" star welcomed her first child, Matilda, in 2005 with her then-boyfriend, the late actor Heath Ledger. In 2020, she married director Thomas Kail, with whom she shares three children.

For her, being a working mom is about striking a careful balance — never letting her kids or her career go "unattended for too long."

"Because the truth is, if work is going well, somebody else is taking care of the kids. And if you're in a high point with your kids, the work is shoved to the side," Williams said.

"You can't be equally good at them at the exact same time, and you have to allow for that give and take, but then also replenish the other things. If you have a big period of being at home, you need to go back to what you've left unattended and put some light over there," she continued.

Williams says she also wants her kids to grow up seeing their mom work, which makes it hard to step away from her career for too long. However, the pull of being a mother is hard to resist.

"My best day with my children is better than my best day at work. I am more thrilled with that high than I am with a work high," she said.

This isn't Williams's first time speaking about being a working mom.

"So you have to figure it out because we have to stay in the workforce, even though it often feels like it's untenable. My heart obviously belongs to my children; they tug at it the most. But I really want to be able to have both," she told Entertainment Weekly in a January 2023 interview.

Other female Hollywood stars have also spoken up about balancing their personal and professional lives.

Naomi Watts, 56, said she tried freezing her eggs when she was in her early 30s to focus on her career.

"Because I came into it late — at least with my launching — I was told to work, work, work because it'll all be dried up at 40," Watts told Katie Couric in a January interview.

Cameron Diaz, who took a decadelong hiatus from Hollywood, said she spent those 10 years "trying to stay alive just like every other mother."

During Fortune's Most Powerful Women Summit 2024, she elaborated on her decision to stop acting.

"It really comes to: What are you passionate about? For me, it was to build my family," Diaz said.

A representative for Williams did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Jay Shetty says he avoids work talk over dinner with his wife, even though they have a joint business venture.
• Shetty and his wife, Radhi Devlukia, launched a sparkling tea brand together in 2022.
• "I love what I do, but when I'm with her, I just want to be with her," Shetty said.

For Jay Shetty and Radhi Devlukia, a strong relationship lies in setting boundaries.

During an interview with People, published on Friday, the "On Purpose" podcast host spoke about how he and his wife keep their marriage strong.

Shetty told People that they make sure to go on walks and have dinner together whenever they are in the same city.

Even though they collaborate professionally, he says he avoids work talk over their shared meals "because I love that when we are having dinner together at night, we're not talking about content."

"That's not because I don't love what I do. I love what I do, but when I'm with her, I just want to be with her," Shetty said.

The couple has been married since 2016. In August 2022, they launched Joyo, a sparkling tea brand. Less than a year later, Shetty announced on Instagram that they were rebranding Joyo to Juni.

Shetty says his best relationship tip involves "giving each other that freedom and no restriction, and then allowing yourself to fall in love again and again with the new version of that person."

This isn't the first time that Shetty has spoken about the dynamics of his relationship with his wife.

In February, during an appearance on his wife's podcast, "A Really Good Cry with Radhi Devlukia," the couple also spoke about how giving each other space and independence strengthened their relationship.

Devlukia shared that at the beginning of their relationship, she would always want Shetty to make decisions for her, but he would refuse.

"I think that was very interesting for me to reflect back on, because you really could have become a crutch for me, but you didn't allow yourself to do that. You were like 'No, no. Create your own life, do your own thing,'" Devlukia told Shetty.

Shetty told his wife that it was because he wanted her to be able to chase her dreams.

"I didn't want to be in a position ever with you that you would feel I achieved all of my goals, and that you didn't achieve yours. How would that be fair on either of us?" Shetty said.

Shetty isn't the only celebrity who has spoken about how they build and maintain strong relationships with their partners.

"Frasier" actor Kelsey Grammer says thinking of love as a "contact sport" helps keep the flame alive in his 14-year marriage.

Denise Richards says she and her husband book a staycation at least once a month to carve out quality time together.

Representatives for Shetty and Devlukia did not immediately respond to requests for comment sent by Business Insider.

• Michelle Obama says she made a rule with Barack that allowed her to tease him, but not vice versa.
• "I said, 'When I tease you, it's like, you know, it's like a love tap," she said.
• Playfulness in relationships, like teasing, can contribute to long-lasting bonds.

Only one Obama gets to crack the jokes in this relationship — and it's not the former US president.

During an appearance on Amy Poehler's "Good Hang" podcast on Tuesday, Michelle Obama spoke about the deal she struck with her husband, Barack Obama, about making fun of each other.

"See, we have a deal, Barack and I, in our marriage, and it started very early. It's like 'I can tease you, but you cannot tease me,'" Obama told Poehler.

"You know, so when he does, I was like, 'Oh, oh, oh, oh, wait a minute. What's going on here?' And he's like, 'I'm teasing you.' I was like, 'None of that,'" Obama said.

The former first lady joked that her husband is outnumbered at home, especially when she teams up with their two daughters.

"When me, Malia, and Sasha — all of us — are together, he doesn't stand a chance," Obama said. "We mercilessly go after him. So, yes, teasing is our love language, and I tell him that."

She added that teasing was her way of showing affection — a habit she picked up from her parents, especially her mother, who loved pulling pranks on her and her brother.

"I said, 'When I tease you, it's like, you know, it's like a love tap," Obama said, recalling her words to her husband.

A 2021 study found that playfulness among couples may be the key to a long relationship. Whether sharing a laugh or playing sports together, playfulness helps create a light, easygoing dynamic, Rachel Sussman, a relationship therapist who was not part of the study, previously told Business Insider.

"Everyone needs a respite from all the heaviness going on in the world," Sussman said.

The former US president is also known for his sharp sense of humor — he made plenty of dad jokes during his time in the office. More recently, during a speech at the Democratic National Convention last year, he made a size joke about then-GOP nominee Donald Trump that went viral.

A representative for Michelle Obama did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by BI outside regular hours.

• Parents, forget the terrible twos — Hilary Swank is choosing to think of it as "teachable twos" instead.
• The actor welcomed her twins, Aya and Ohm, with her husband, Philip Schneider, in April 2023.
• "My thing is, I think it's really important to regulate yourself and just stay calm and hold space for them," she said.

Hilary Swank's twin toddlers are entering their terrible twos — but she's choosing to see it in a positive way instead.

"There are moments of it, but I call it the teachable twos," Swank, 50, told People.

"Because I feel like they're just in this place where they're recognizing so many new things," the actor said. "And it's gotta be really overwhelming to have everything that you see is new."

Since toddlers don't have logical reasoning skills yet, their behavior is often driven by their feelings, Swank said.

"So when you want something, you just want it, you don't have logical thinking skills. So to me, teachable twos is, I think, more fitting," she said.

The best way to approach her toddlers having a meltdown is to be patient.

"My thing is, I think it's really important to regulate yourself and just stay calm and hold space for them," she added.

Swank welcomed her twins, Aya and Ohm, with her husband, Philip Schneider, in April 2023, when she was 48 years old.

In September, Swank told Business Insider that she was glad to be an older mom.

"The person that I was in my 20s and even into my 30s would've been a very different mom than I am now," Swank said.

"I'm in a place where I just have a lot more patience and a lot more grace to give, not just my children, but others around me," she added. "I can give them so much more than I could have at that point."

Kristin Gallant and Deena Margolin, founders of Big Little Feelings, an online parenting platform, previously told BI they had several tips for dealing with toddler tantrums.

One key way to manage a tantrum-throwing child is to avoid negotiating with them and escalating the conflict. Instead, parents should try their best to channel their inner calm. However, it's also crucial that parents avoid invalidating their children's feelings, they said.

A representative for Swank did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by BI outside regular hours.

• What began as a short trip to Bangkok ended with Antoinette Yvonne moving there alone in 2023.
• She is now living in a $660-a-month apartment with views of the Thai capital's skyline.
• She said that while things may cost less in Bangkok than in the US, people shouldn't assume everything is cheap.

When Antoinette Yvonne arrived in Bangkok in 2023, it was supposed to be just a two-week trip.

It was her second visit to Thailand's capital city, but this time, something clicked. Those two weeks stretched into three months, and by the end of that extended stay, the full-time YouTuber and boutique travel agency owner knew she'd found her new home.

"The skyline literally is what sold me on Bangkok. I knew that I wanted to live in the city, where it's just so beautiful. And the cost of living here, I mean, it didn't hurt. So I was like, 'OK, let me do it,'" Yvonne, 37, told Business Insider.

She returned to the US for the summer and got ready to make the big move. By November 2023, she was back in Bangkok — for good.

The allure of living abroad

Yvonne is no stranger to living abroad.

Originally from Indiana, she moved to Spain in 2013 and lived there for about three years. Part of the reason she made that move was because she was burned out and looking for an escape from her corporate investment banking job.

"I saw the movie 'Eat, Pray, Love,' and I was like, 'OK, I want to be Julia Roberts and go abroad.' Six months after watching that movie, I was living in Barcelona," Yvonne said.

That experience of living abroad gave her a taste for adventure. She became a Delta Air Lines flight attendant for three years. When the pandemic hit, she left her job and spent two years exploring the US and Mexico while living in a van she had converted.

Her parents weren't shocked when she told them she was planning to move abroad again. "I always followed through with crazy ideas," she said.

But it did surprise her parents, who still live in Indiana, when she told them where she was going.

"When I mentioned Bangkok to them, they were like, 'What? Bangkok?' A lot of people are shocked to hear that," she said.

Bangkok has long been a hot spot for expats. Data from the Bureau of Registration Administration of Thailand indicates that there were 102,189 foreigners living in the city as of the end of 2024.

Compared to many Western cities, Bangkok offers a relatively low cost of living. With two well-connected international airports, it is also a hub for travel around Asia.

Several Americans who moved to the Thai capital previously told BI that they were drawn to the city's vibrant lifestyle, good food options, and relative affordability.

In July last year, Thailand also introduced the Destination Thailand Visa, or DTV, in an effort to attract remote workers and digital nomads.

Building a life in Bangkok

Apartment-hunting was a breeze since Yvonne already knew what she was looking for: Unobstructed views of the city skyline, a balcony, and a convenient location.

"I wanted to be near a 7-11, within a 5-minute walking distance. I knew I wanted to be near a regular grocery store, and as far as the unit itself, I needed a washer and dryer," she said.

Thanks to a real estate agent she connected with through a Facebook group, Yvonne found her one-bedroom apartment within a week of her move. Rent is 22,000 Thai baht, or about $660, each month.

She finds it hard to pick a favorite spot in her apartment.

"I love being in my bedroom because it has floor-to-ceiling windows, and the view is absolutely amazing," Yvonne said. "But I also love my balcony too."

Her building has a gym, a pool, and a large coworking space with private call booths.

Yvonne didn't know anyone in Bangkok before she moved.

When she first arrived, she started using Bumble BFF — the friendship version of Bumble — as well as an expat Facebook group to connect with new people.

"You go to different meetups, and then one friend literally turns into two, and three, and four. You just build from there," she said.

Yvonne has been working on learning Thai, as the language barrier has been the biggest challenge of living in Bangkok so far.

"When I speak their language, they just light up, and they're more welcoming. I just feel like you connect more, and I think that's important," she said.

Finding peace in the Thai capital city

Yvonne says she feels more relaxed compared to when she was living in the US.

"In 2019, when I was still a flight attendant, I was on the go so much. It was always fast-paced. I was go, go, go, go, go. Even when I was off work, I was still trying to keep up with the Joneses," Yvonne said. "Whereas now, although Bangkok is a city — and a busy city at that — I find peace in the city. It's so weird."

Part of it, she says, is due to the flexibility of her job. Being an entrepreneur gives her the freedom to arrange her schedule.

Apart from filming and uploading videos onto her channel weekly, Yvonne also travels often, both for leisure and as part of the group trips that she hosts under her travel agency.

Although things in Bangkok are relatively affordable compared to the US, it would be a generalization to assume that everything is cheap, she said.

"While it can be very cost-effective, and for us Americans, my dollar stretches further, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is cheaper," she said. "Especially if you're going out and spending so much money on dinners and things like that, it can add up."

That ties into the biggest piece of advice she has for anyone who wants to move to Thailand.

"A lot of people come and think that $2,000 will get them by for several months at a time. No, I think that doing the proper research on condos and what it really costs to live here is the way to go," she said.

Yvonne also encourages people who move here to get to know the locals.

"I think having local friends is a great way to get familiar with a country. They can help you when your expat friends are not able to," she said.

Regarding her long-term plans, it's hard to keep her wanderlust at bay.

"People ask me, 'How long will you be in Bangkok?' I don't know. I'm here until I'm not," Yvonne said. "So it is just until I feel like I'm called somewhere else, but for now, it's Bangkok."

Do you have a story to share about relocating to a new city? Contact this reporter at [email protected].

• Kelsey Grammer says constant effort is the key to his 14-year marriage.
• "I always say, 'Love is a contact sport,'" he said. "Once in a while you got to back it up with some action."
• This is Grammer's fourth marriage, and the couple shares three kids.

Kelsey Grammer has been married to his wife, Kayte Walsh, for 14 years, and says the secret to their long marriage lies in putting in constant effort.

"I always say, 'Love is a contact sport,'" Grammer, 70, told People. "Once in a while you got to back it up with some action."

The "Frasier" actor added that it was important to keep the initial flame alive.

"I just always try to say to myself, 'Remember the blushing that you had when you first met. Remember that energy, that circulation that dialed you up just a little bit,'" he said.

Walsh, 46, is Grammer's fourth wife. The couple first met in 2009, when she was working as a flight attendant. They married in 2011 and share three kids. Grammer also has four children from his previous relationships.

The actor spoke about how supportive his wife was while he was writing a book about his sister, Karen, who was raped and murdered in 1975.

"When I finished the book, I turned her around and I said, 'I'm finished.' She said, 'Well, I've missed you,'" Grammer said, recalling Walsh's words. "I had to go away for a while — there were hours on end that I would just be staring off. But she was patient and loving through it. I had definitely lost a lot of the joy, and this brought it back for me."

Grammer isn't the only celebrity who has spoken about how they build and maintain healthy relationships with their spouses.

Robert Downey Jr. and his wife, Susan, say they don't go more than two weeks without being together as a family.

Rob Lowe, who has been married to Sheryl Berkoff for over 30 years, said he goes to couples therapy with her regularly because "it's like taking your car in and making sure the engine's running great."

Jamie Lee Curtis credits her 40-year marriage to the filmmaker Christopher Guest to "perseverance, patience, gentleness, and a really good dose of hatred."

A representative for Grammer did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Michelle Obama doesn't believe in overparenting her daughters.
• Although she was strict, she wanted them to make and learn from their own mistakes while growing up.
• Her comments come as more parents are rethinking how they discipline their children.

Michelle Obama doesn't believe in coddling kids.

During Wednesday's episode of her and her brother's "IMO" podcast, which featured guests Damon and Marlon Wayans, the former First Lady spoke about her experience raising her kids.

Obama said that even though she was strict with her daughters, she felt it was important for them to make their own mistakes.

"And I think nowadays a lot of parents are trying to live their kids' lives for them so that they don't make any mistakes and don't feel any sense of failure, which keeps them from learning," Obama told her cohost Craig Robinson and her two guests.

The "Becoming" author also spoke about how she wanted her daughters to make sound decisions on their own, meaning she had to stop overparenting them.

"It's like, you know what, I raised you all to have some sense, to have judgment. And at some point, you've got to practice that, which means that I've got to let go," Obama said.

She shares two daughters, Malia and Sasha Obama, with her husband, former US President Barack Obama.

She added that she tried to give her kids more rope before they went to college.

"And I think that the reverse happens now is that everybody's trying to hold on to their kids. But one day they're going to get out there, and the only thing that is for certain for kids getting out in the world, is they're going to get hit with some failure," Obama said.

To help kids handle failure, she says parents should start letting them make decisions early on.

"Choosing the knucklehead boyfriend and holding your tongue, and showing them that you trust them so that when they do fail, they'll come back," she said.

Obama's comments come as more parents are rethinking how they raise their children.

In recent years, gentle parenting has been a big trend, especially among millennial parents. This parenting style frowns upon punitive methods while emphasizing respect and understanding of children's emotions.

Similarly, permissive parenting involves not setting or enforcing many rules for kids. While this parenting style can foster a stronger bond between parents and their children, it may lead to kids having trouble with self-regulation.

In a personal essay for Business Insider, child psychologist Michele Borba wrote that parents can instill resilience in their kids by letting them fail.

She wrote that one way would be for parents to stop trying to fix their kids' problems.

"Instead, step back and subscribe to a new parenting behavior: 'Never do for your child what your child can do for themself,'" Borba wrote.

A representative for Obama did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Jameel Haiat and Hilcia Peña left the US and moved to Chiang Mai, Thailand.
• They started a boutique hotel, but shut it down months later so Haiat could prioritize his cancer recovery.
• Now they're focused on their passions — making art and writing poetry — and say every day feels like Saturday.

Eleven years ago, Jameel Haiat and Hilcia Peña set a goal of quitting their jobs and living life on their own terms.

The couple even picked a date to make it real and gave the name a plan: "2020 Vision."

Haiat, a production designer, was born and raised in Los Angeles. His partner, Peña, is an architect who grew up in California. In 2014, the couple was based abroad in Shanghai, where they both worked for Walt Disney Imagineering.

"We were always trying to figure out how we could leave this corporate world and be more creative," Peña, now 39, told Business Insider.

It was during their years in China that the idea of retiring abroad first took root.

"We had the opportunity to travel all over Southeast Asia, and Thailand we loved because it had good infrastructure, good healthcare, and was really affordable," Peña said. "We could see how our money could go a lot further."

They decided 2020 Vision would go into effect on February 20, 2020.

"We said that on that day, no matter where we are in the world, whatever we're doing, we're going to send an email out that says, 'We're sorry for your loss.' And then we quit," Haiat, now 59, told BI.

Moving abroad

By the time their February 2020 deadline rolled around, they were both based back in the US. But 2020 Vision didn't go quite as planned.

"We never sent the emails because everything came to fruition as we had hoped," Haiat said.

Peña was offered a new opportunity with Disney — this time in Hong Kong.

The opportunity to relocate to Hong Kong felt like a step toward their goal of retiring abroad. It helped that the company was paying for their move, so she accepted the job. Haiat, who was laid off when his project wrapped, joined as a trailing spouse.

In 2023, after Peña wrapped up her final project, the couple moved from Hong Kong to Chiang Mai, about 450 miles north of Bangkok.

The boutique hotel chapter

In recent years, Chiang Mai has become a popular destination for expats, like Haiat and Peña, who are looking to relocate.

Data from the Bureau of Registration Administration of Thailand indicates that there were 163,036 foreigners living in Chiang Mai province in 2024, up from 131,761 in 2017.

Several expats in Chiang Mai previously told BI that they were drawn to the area's safety, lower cost of living, and laid-back lifestyle.

For the couple, life in northern Thailand afforded them the freedom to indulge in their creative passions — reading, writing poetry, and making art.

It also opened up an unexpected opportunity to pursue a second career during retirement as hoteliers.

"One day on Facebook, I saw this hotel. I was like, 'Oh wow. Let's just go look at it.' Because, architecturally, it looked really pretty," Haiat said.

The hotel, owned by a Thai-Dutch couple, featured a main building and five stand-alone villas surrounded by lush rice fields.

They had no intention of taking over the property until they were on the drive back home.

"We started saying, 'Wow, what if?' And that was it. We got sucked into the world of it, and then we committed," Haiat said.

The couple decided to lease the hotel with the option to buy it. The monthly rent was 110,000 Thai baht.

The property needed a lot of work. By tapping into their backgrounds in design and architecture, they transformed the hotel.

The couple moved onto the property, into a three-bedroom apartment in the main building.

But eight months after the hotel started operating, the couple decided to close it down.

The week they decided to commit to leasing the hotel, Haiat found out he had throat cancer. Despite the diagnosis, they decided to go ahead with the hotel project.

"We didn't know what would happen, so we stuck with it," Haiat said.

However, caring for their guests turned into a round-the-clock affair, keeping him from focusing on his recovery.

"We finally determined that it was just too hard on my body and I'm never going to really recover until we just kind of stop doing this," Haiat said.

Haiat is in remission, but he still experiences side effects from radiation therapy, including the daily challenge of getting nutrition through a gastric tube.

"This will most likely be for life," he said.

Low cost of living, great healthcare

The couple broke their lease with the hotel owners late last year. They closed the hotel on the last day of December.

Now, they're back to their creative pursuits and designing their own house. Once that's ready, the couple plans to move out of the hotel.

The lower cost of living in Chiang Mai has been a great relief, the couple says.

Every month, they spend 7,500 Thai baht on medical insurance, 3,000 Thai baht on gas, and about 29,000 Thai baht on food — including special formula Haiat needs for his feeding tube.

They also say they're grateful for Chiang Mai's healthcare system.

"I never felt more comfortable and more welcomed by the nurses, the staff, the doctors. Everybody speaks basic English. And if we ask questions, they explain," Haiat said.

There's a dedicated counter to guide foreign patients through the medical system, helping with processes like insurance approval, Peña said.

"That would never happen in the US," Haiat said. "They see you as a dollar symbol. Here, people see you as a patient."

'Every day is our Saturday'

Despite all of the challenges they've experienced, the couple says their life in Chiang Mai is going "in the direction" they dreamed of years ago.

"I think it's turned out better than we expected, even with the cancer," Haiat said. "I'm going to be 60, and I've never been more creative in my entire life than I have been in this last year."

Now, they're no longer bogged down by the mundanities of corporate life.

"At work, you think about, 'What do I have to do tomorrow for work? Who do I have to call? What do I have to email? What's my schedule? What's my deadline?'" Haiat said. "Here, we don't have that. We wake up every day, and we don't even know what day it is. We say every day is our Saturday."

The slower pace of life has also been good for her mental health, Peña said. She no longer gets Sunday blues.

"Now I sleep, and the birds wake me up. I don't even have an alarm," she added.

Despite ongoing health challenges, Haiat feels like they are in the right place.

"It still is the best we've ever lived our lives. Despite the fact that I have the gastric tube and all these, I still wouldn't exchange any of this to be anywhere else except where we are right now, living the life we do," he said.

Do you have a story to share about relocating to a new city? Contact this reporter at [email protected].

• Helen Mirren, 79, wants people in their 50s and 60s to start exercising regularly.
• The actor still swears by a 12-minute military workout routine to stay fit.
• Inactivity is associated with $117 billion in annual healthcare costs, per the CDC.

At 79, Helen Mirren is staying active and embracing aging with more purpose than ever.

In an interview with The Times published on Tuesday, the actor spoke about growing older and the importance of regular exercise.

"Whatever you may think about aging, it's something we must all try to embrace rather than fear," Mirren told The Times.

She encouraged those in their 50s and 60s to make exercise a daily habit by incorporating simple, low-impact physical activities into their lives.

"It doesn't have to be joining a gym. It can be small changes like taking a short walk or practicing yoga, which I still enjoy," she said.

Mirren has long championed a 12-minute military workout developed by the Royal Canadian Air Force in the 1950s and still considers it her go-to exercise routine. The workout consists of basic exercises, including toe touches, leg raises, and push-ups.

"It's never too late to start doing something, so why not give it a go while you're younger?" Mirren said.

This isn't the first time that Mirren has spoken about how she keeps fit and healthy.

In a 2015 interview, Mirren's fitness advice was to ease into it.

"My thing with exercise is start really easy, just so you only do three sit-ups, you know? Then do four next week, and the next week do five. Start really easy," she told People.

Diet-wise, she tries to eat everything in moderation.

"I've never done anything to excess," Mirren told People in a 2008 interview. "I've never drunk or eaten too much. It helps to stay balanced."

Data from the CDC shows there are about 31 million adults ages 50 and above in the US who are inactive, which means they get no physical activity beyond that of daily living. Not having enough physical activity contributes to 1 in 10 premature deaths, and is also associated with $117 billion in annual healthcare costs.

Even five minutes of exercise can improve cardiovascular health by reducing blood pressure. Research has also found that regular exercise can help improve memory and reduce the effects of strokes.

Lauren Hurst, a personal trainer to older people, previously told Business Insider that strength training can help people live longer for better.

For people who lead sedentary lifestyles, the best thing they can do for their health is to start somewhere, Dr. Suzanne Steinbaum, a preventative cardiologist, told BI previously.

"Doing something is better than doing nothing," she said. "If walking is the beginning stages of embracing a heart-healthy life, then it is the initial stages that will create habits that will be sustainable and last for a lifetime."

A representative for Mirren did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Even Jamie Oliver can't keep his kids from eating pizzas and burgers in their teens.
• Despite teaching them to cook, Oliver's kids still go through a junk-food phase, he said.
• Thankfully, "they do come back," the celebrity chef said.

Even Jamie Oliver has a hard time steering his kids away from eating unhealthy food.

During an interview with People published on Monday, the celebrity chef spoke about his family life and what it's like being a father of five.

"All of my kids have got a confidence with cooking. I've taught all of my kids how to cook: planting things, growing things, picking things, coming to the market, getting to know everyone in the market, having conversations with people, realizing that naturally food is a delicious thing," Oliver told People.

Even though he has instilled in his kids a genuine appreciation for food, that hasn't kept them from entering a junk-food phase in their teens.

"When they start getting into 12, 13 years old, they start to go down the generic of all the predictable pizza, burger stuff — but they do come back," he said.

Throughout his career, Oliver has been a prominent advocate for healthy eating.

The "Naked Chef" star has also led several public campaigns advocating against junk food consumption among kids.

In his ABC series "Food Revolution," which aired from 2010 to 2011, Oliver drew national attention to "pink slime" — ground meat scraps treated with ammonia, which are often used by fast-food meat patties in the US. The show caused public outrage, leading several fast-food chains, including McDonald's, to announce that they would discontinue the use of the meat product in their burgers.

In 2018, he also launched a social media campaign against junk food advertising aimed at kids, calling for the government to introduce a 9 p.m. watershed on junk food ads on TV, and for controls on what kids see online and in public. As of 2024, nine UK mayors have backed Oliver's campaign and pledged to stop junk food advertising in public spaces.

However, in a 2018 interview with the Daily Mail, Oliver said that he would allow his kids to go to McDonald's if they wanted to.

"Honestly? If they wanted to go, I'd let them. Because they get really well fed 95% of the time from us," Oliver told the Daily Mail. "If they want to go out and have a fizzy drink I don't care, because we have none in the house. My wife's probably stricter. She'd say, 'Oh please, don't.' But they'd only end up doing it in some other place."

A CDC report based on data from the most recent National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey found that children and adolescents in the US consumed an average of 13.8% of their calories from fast food between 2015 and 2018. The previous figure, from 2011 to 2012, was 12.4%.

A representative for Oliver did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider.

• Tina Knowles says she sent Beyoncé and Solange to therapy as kids to foster a strong bond between the sisters.
• Knowles said her family — and even her ex-husband — was upset with her decision.
• Experts say it's normal for most siblings to argue, but there are ways for parents to help their kids get along.

When Tina Knowles, 71, noticed a growing rift between her daughters, Beyoncé and Solange, she decided to step in.

During an interview on 'CBS Mornings' on Wednesday, Knowles reflected on raising her two daughters and the steps she took to strengthen their sisterly bond.

She told host Gayle King that she made the unpopular decision to bring both daughters to a counselor when they were kids.

As Beyoncé's fame grew in their hometown, the dynamic between the sisters began to shift, especially after Beyoncé joined a singing group, she said.

"Everything took place at our house, so the other girls in the group would tell Solange to shut up and be quiet and all that, and I started noticing that she wasn't protecting her sister," Knowles said.

She didn't like what was happening, so she spoke to Beyoncé about it.

"I was like, 'That's your sister. You don't let people talk to your sister like that.' She was like, "Yeah, but she comes in, bursts in, and she wants to boss us around and do steps,'" Knowles said, recalling her eldest daughter's words.

"I just started seeing this, you know, separation, and I said, "Oh no, you all are going to grow up close if I have to, you know, whatever I have to do to make that happen," Knowles said.

She added that her family did not like the idea of her bringing her daughters to therapy.

"My family was upset, and even Matthew was not happy. He was like, 'I don't want any part of that. Why do you want them to go?'" Knowles said, recalling her ex-husband's words.

The couple married in 1980 and welcomed Beyoncé in 1981 and Solange in 1986. After 30 years of marriage, they divorced in 2011.

This isn't the first time Knowles has spoken about taking her daughters to therapy.

In a 2018 interview with Maria Shriver, Knowles also spoke about what she hoped early counselling would achieve.

"My family was like, 'You're going to make them crazy because they're too young for you to take them,'" Knowles told Shriver. "But I wanted Beyoncé to be sensitive to the fact that Solange had to deal with being a little bit in her shadow. And it made her way more sensitive and protective. And they're still fiercely protective of each other."

Knowles also added that she gave each daughter one-on-one time while they were growing up.

"I had days I devoted to them. On Wednesdays, I took off work and that was Solange's day," Knowles said.

It's normal for most siblings to argue with each other, but there are numerous ways that parents can intervene to help their kids get along.

Psychologists previously told Business Insider that it's important for parents to set clear expectations and give each child alone time with them, just like Knowles did. This can help children not feel like they always have to compete for their parents' attention.

Additionally, if conflict arises between siblings, parents should allow each child to tell their side of the story, Tracy King, a clinical psychologist, told BI.

"Use a strategy of 'externalizing' where you step outside of blame and speak as if the conflict is in the room for everyone to problem solve," King said.

A representative for Knowles did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by BI outside regular hours.

• Gwyneth Paltrow is abandoning her strict paleo diet because she's "a little sick of it."
• Now, the Goop founder is eating sourdough bread, cheese, and pasta again.
• Paltrow previously drew criticism for her restrictive diet, which included bone broth for lunch.

Gwyneth Paltrow, 52, is ditching her strict paleo diet.

On the Tuesday episode of her "Goop" podcast, Paltrow spoke about how her relationship with food has changed over the years.

"I went into hardcore macrobiotics for a certain time. That was an interesting chapter where I got kind of obsessed with eating very, very healthily," Paltrow said.

Part of it was because of her dad's health, she said: "I think that I was really trying to heal my dad by proxy, and he just didn't really want anything to do with it." Her father died in 2002 after battling throat cancer.

The Goop founder started thinking more critically about the types of food she was putting into her body.

"But the beauty of it, for me, was that I really deepened my connection with food and this whole philosophy around macrobiotics, which is essentially just how they eat in the mountains of Japan," Paltrow said. "So, very local, very seasonal, lots of fish and vegetables, rice, no dairy, no sugar, et cetera."

Although the "Shakespeare in Love" star says that she "might have gotten a little didactic about it," all she wanted to do was share her eating philosophy with everyone she knew.

"I think I was just so amazed that, you know, we had this power in our hands that if we treated ourselves well, hydrated, and ate whole foods, we could just feel so much better," Paltrow said.

She added that she was "intoxicated" by that idea, and still feels the same to this day.

"But it's the reason Brad and I became paleo a few years ago now, although I'm a little sick of it, if I'm honest, and getting back into eating some sourdough bread and some cheese," Paltrow said. "There, I said it. A little pasta, after being strict with it for so long."

"But again, I think it's a good sort of template, right? Eating foods that are kind of as whole and fresh as possible," she added.

A paleo diet is supposed to be based on the way ancient human ancestors ate and includes foods such as lean meats, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds. It emphasizes eating unprocessed foods, and grains and dairy are off limits.

Paltrow's comments come months after her company, Goop, told Women's Wear Daily that it was restructuring.

The company was moving away from wellness, home, and travel and focusing on beauty, fashion, and food instead. It will double down on its Goop Beauty and Good Clean Goop beauty brands, its G. Label clothing line, and Goop Kitchen.

Paltrow has previously detailed her strict diet and wellness routine during an interview for "The Art of Being Well" podcast in 2023.

Her restrictive diet, which drew widespread criticism from internet users and dietitians, included coffee in the mornings, bone broth for lunch, and a paleo diet for dinner.

A representative for Paltrow did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Jay Leno says he enjoys caring for his wife, who was diagnosed with dementia in 2024.
• "I mean, that's really what love is. That's what you do," the former late-night show host said.
• The number of caregivers in the US rose from 43.5 million in 2015 to about 53 million in 2020, per the CDC.

Jay Leno, 74, says caring for his wife, Mavis, after she was diagnosed with dementia is just part of what love is all about.

During an appearance on today's episode of "In Depth with Graham Bensinger," the former late-night host spoke about the challenges he faced being a caregiver to his wife.

"When I got married, you sort of take a vow: 'Will I live up to this? Or will I be like a sleazy guy if something happens to my wife, I'm out banging the cashier at the mini-mart?'" Leno told podcast host Bensinger. "No, I didn't. I enjoy the time with my wife. I go home, I cook dinner for her, watch TV, and it's OK."

They still do many of the things they did before, he said. Only now, he has to help her with daily tasks.

"But, I like it. I like taking care of her. She's a very independent woman, so I like that I'm needed," Leno said.

The couple met in the '70s at a comedy club in Los Angeles and married in 1980. They do not have any children together.

Leno was granted conservatorship over his wife's estate in 2024, according to court documents.

"Well, that's the challenge, isn't it? When you have to feed someone and change them and carry them to the bathroom and do all that kind of stuff every day," Leno said. "It's a challenge. And it's not that I enjoy doing it, but I guess I enjoy doing it."

At the end of the day, it's a testament to his commitment to her and their marriage vows.

"At some point in my life, I'm going to be called upon to defend myself. I think that's really what defines a marriage. I mean, that's really what love is. That's what you do. I mean, I'm glad I didn't cut and run. I'm glad I didn't run off with some woman half my age or any of that silly nonsense. I would rather be with her than doing something else," Leno said.

Leno isn't the only celebrity who has spoken about the experience of being a caregiver to a loved one.

In a 2019 opinion piece for USA Today, Rob Lowe reflected on the experience of stepping up with his brothers to care for their mother after she was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer.

"I often felt overwhelmed, and that was even with all the support I had from my brothers and colleagues," Lowe wrote.

Emma Heming Willis has also been open about her journey caring for her husband, Bruce Willis, after he was diagnosed with frontotemporal dementia in 2023.

"You know, I have my moments. It just depends. I'm hanging in there and doing the best that I can. And, turning my pain into purpose," Heming Willis said in a 2023 Instagram Live.

As the population ages, more and more people will likely need help with tasks at some point in their lifetime.

According to the CDC, the number of caregivers in the US increased from 43.5 million in 2015 to about 53 million in 2020.

A representative for Leno did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• Demi Moore, 62, has a wellness routine that involves getting good sleep, avoiding meat, and practicing meditation.
• But the Oscar-nominated actor doesn't want to give up her favorite energy drink.
• "I mean, I'm not perfect. I still do drink Red Bull. I do love it. But not many. One," Moore said.

Demi Moore, 62, is all about getting plenty of sleep and a clean diet — but she's not quite ready to give up her one guilty pleasure.

In an interview for the cover of People's World's Most Beautiful 2025 issue, Moore spoke about her wellness routine and how it's changed over the years.

"I really like anchoring with a short meditation, journaling. And overall, I like really nutrient-dense food. I don't eat meat. I do eat eggs. But I think a big part of wellness is really inside out. And I've come to realize how important sleep is," Moore told People.

But as much as she tries to take care of what she puts into her body, there's one thing she can't go without.

"I mean, I'm not perfect. I still do drink Red Bull. I do love it. But not many. One," Moore said.

The Oscar-nominated actor says she used to go to extreme lengths to take care of her appearance. But these days, her wellness routine is centered on improving her overall health and longevity.

"I did torture myself. Crazy things like biking from Malibu all the way to Paramount, which is about 26 miles. All because I placed so much value on what my outsides looked like," Moore said.

She added that she used to have "a much more antagonistic relationship" with her body. Now, she says she tries to be gentler with herself.

"I trust when it tells me it needs something to eat, that it's thirsty. I listen to my body today, and I have a lot less fear," she said. "When I was younger, I felt like my body was betraying me. And so I just tried to control it. And now I don't operate from that place. It's a much more aligned relationship."

Although aging in Hollywood hasn't been easy, Moore says she has a "greater appreciation" for all that her body has been through.

"It doesn't mean that sometimes I look in the mirror and don't go, 'Oh God, I look old,' or 'Oh, my face is falling' — I do. But I can accept that that's where I'm at today, and I know the difference today is that it doesn't define my value or who I am," she said.

There is plenty of research that backs up Moore's eating and living habits.

A 2022 study found that people who eat less meat have a lower risk of cancer than people who eat meat often.

While eating too much meat — and specifically red meat — has been linked to health problems such as heart disease and cancer, it isn't all bad, since it contains iron, protein, and vitamin B12.

Likewise, research shows that getting quality sleep can help improve immunity and increase longevity. According to neuroscientists, adults need between seven and nine hours of sleep every night to be well-rested.

A representative for Moore did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider outside regular hours.

• George Clooney says he hasn't argued with Amal Clooney since they got married in 2014.
• "We're trying to find something to fight about," Clooney said.
• But relationship therapists previously told BI that arguments can enrich relationships by teaching conflict resolution.

It's been slightly over a decade since George and Amal Clooney married, and their relationship is still going strong.

During an appearance on CBS Mornings on Monday, the "ER" star spoke about his marital life and what it's like to be a dad.

"Amal and I are having a really great time in life. Our kids are 7, about to be 8, which is a pretty great age. They're really curious and funny," Clooney told host Gayle King.

While reflecting on his relationship with his wife, Clooney recalled a joint interview they did on the same show two years earlier.

"Amal and I, you know, we were here with you once before, and remember we said we'd never had an argument? We still haven't," Clooney said. "We're trying to find something to fight about."

The couple first met in 2013 and tied the knot a year later in 2014. In 2017, they welcomed twins, Alexander and Ella.

The actor added that he is thankful to have met his wife, even though it happened later in his life.

"I feel so extraordinarily lucky to have met this incredible woman, and I feel as if I hit the jackpot," Clooney said. "There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think I'm the luckiest man in the world."

During their joint appearance on "CBS Mornings" in 2022, Clooney told King that it was "easy" to keep their marriage strong.

"Like, the easiest thing in our lives by far. We've never had an argument," Clooney said.

"It's maddening to some of our friends. I have a cousin, actually, every time we see him, he's like, his first question is, 'So have you had an argument yet?' before he says hello," Amal Clooney said.

But arguing can be beneficial

It's common for couples to fight, and arguments might even help enrich a relationship, relationship therapists previously told Business Insider.

"Disagreements will happen, how you respond is what makes the disagreement healthy or not healthy," JaQuinda Jackson, a licensed therapist in private practice, said.

Getting into a disagreement can teach a person more about where their partner stands regarding specific issues, she said. Being able to reach a solution also helps both parties practice conflict resolution.

Representatives for the Clooneys did not immediately respond to requests for comment sent by BI outside regular hours.

• Tracee Ellis Ross, 52, says she prefers dating younger men.
• Part of the reason is that men her age are often "steeped in toxic masculinity," Ross said.
• "I have long been past the age where I feel like it's my job to teach somebody or grow them up," Ross said.

Tracee Ellis Ross, 52, prefers dating younger men because they're less bound by traditional gender roles.

During an appearance on the Wednesday episode of the "IMO" podcast — hosted by Michelle Obama and her brother, Craig Robinson — Ross reflected on her dating preferences and shared why she gravitates toward younger partners.

"Why does this keep coming up, other than they're hot and gorgeous? There's that," Ross told the podcast hosts. "But a lot of men my age are steeped in toxic masculinity and have been raised in a culture where there is a particular way that a relationship looks."

"And anything that starts to smell of that for me — I did enough of it where I was controlled and felt like I was a possession or a prize — I just have no interest in it. And I will not do it again," Ross said."

The "Black-ish" actor admits that "it's a generalization," but she's had very different experiences dating men her age and younger men.

"There is a difference. There is an openness that occurs with a younger man around, whether it's gender fluidity or not even having an issue with homosexuality — something as basic as that," Ross said.

She added that she's no longer willing to take on the role of helping her partner mature.

"I have long been past the age where I feel like it's my job to teach somebody or grow them up," Ross said. "That, I'm not interested in."

Ross isn't the only female celebrity who has spoken about dating younger men.

In 2024, Cher revealed that she prefers dating someone younger because men her age or older "were always terrified" to approach her. Cher has a 40-year age gap with her boyfriend, Alexander Edwards. They went public with their relationship in November 2022.

Apart from Cher, there are several other celebrities who are in age-gap relationships with younger men.

Kris Jenner, 69, has a 25-year age gap with Corey Gamble, 44, whom she has been dating for almost a decade. Heidi Klum, 51, has a 16-year age gap with her husband, "Tokio Hotel" rocker Tom Kaulitz, 35. Sam and Aaron Taylor-Johnson, who have been married since 2012, have an age difference of 23 years.

In a 2024 episode of "The View," Joy Behar said that it's "scientifically smart" for women to date younger men because they'll have similar lifespans.

A representative for Ross told Business Insider that the actor had no additional comment.

• Jill Tozer, 68, left New Zealand to retire in Malaysia a decade ago.
• She now lives in a $450-a-month apartment with sea views in Penang.
• She says she loves the warm climate, the lower cost of living, and the welcoming local community.

Ten years ago, Jill Tozer packed her bags, said goodbye to her daughters, and moved alone to Penang, a state in the northwestern part of Malaysia.

A former physiotherapist, Tozer was born and raised in New Zealand. She had been living in Christchurch for years, in a four-bedroom house that she rented. She lived with one of her daughters and her boyfriend. Her other daughter was away at university.

In 2011, an earthquake reduced much of the city of Christchurch to rubble. Tozer's business was also affected.

"I was at a crossroads in jobs since the earthquakes had kind of finished what I was trying to set up at the time," Tozer, now 68, told Business Insider.

"I crunched the numbers and thought, am I better off staying in New Zealand and paying ridiculous amounts for rent, unable to get a well-paying job, or coming to Malaysia and living off investment income?" she said. "I figured I possibly would be better off here."

The idea of retiring in Malaysia had been on her mind for years.

Tozer had been there before to visit her friends, and she longed to return every time she came back from her trips.

"I would be back in New Zealand thinking, 'Oh, Heather and John are still sitting on their porch, having a sundown every night of the year. And I'm inside, huddled beside the fire, freezing," Tozer said. "And so I thought, yeah, I'd like to give it a go."

A breezy apartment with a sea view

Tozer had moved abroad once before — to Canada — when she was in her 20s.

Even so, it was intimidating to do it again. This time, it also meant leaving her two adult daughters behind.

"But my older daughter said, 'Mom, just go for three months, and if you don't like it, come home and look at it as if you had a good three-month holiday.' And I thought that's a jolly good way of looking at it. So that's what I did," Tozer said.

"But 10 years later, I'm still here," she added.

The apartment-hunting process was smooth. Within a week of arriving in Malaysia, Tozer found an apartment that fit all her requirements.

"I found an agent, and she spent two days just taking me around," Tozer said. "I gave her some parameters. I wanted a sea view. I wanted a pool and a big enough area to do yoga."

After viewing about eight units, she decided on a three-bedroom apartment in Tanjung Tokong, an area near Penang's capital city, George Town.

It's 1,200 square feet, with a small balcony and two extra bedrooms for her daughters or friends to stay in when they visit. Rent is 2,000 Malaysian ringgit, or about $450, a month.

She got the sea view she wanted, and the nearest grocery store is five minutes away.

A slower life, but with 'plenty' to do

Tozer is on the Malaysia My Second Home, or MM2H, visa, which was introduced in 2002 to attract foreigners who want to retire and live in the country.

There were 58,468 active MM2H pass holders in the country as of December, Malaysia's minister of tourism, arts, and culture, Tiong King Sing, said in a parliamentary response on February 24.

For Tozer, one of the biggest perks of living in Malaysia has been the climate.

"The main reason I'm here is for the weather. I love never being cold," Tozer said. "I love being able to leave my doors and windows open day and night. I love being able to go swimming any time I want."

She also says the community has been inclusive and welcoming.

"In New Zealand, as in many Western countries, older people are kind of almost invisible, but here you get more respect," Tozer said. "People are actually nice to you, notice you, and want to help you."

The lower cost of living helps, Tozer said. Her monthly living expenses, including bills and food, are often less than 4,000 Malaysian ringgit. This doesn't include extras, like travel expenses if she decides to take a trip somewhere.

"Food for me is very cheap. I don't eat meat, dairy, cheese, or anything like that that's imported and expensive," Tozer said, adding that she eats out three or four times a week.

Her life here is also much slower than it used to be, partially because she is fully retired. However, she says there are "plenty" of things to do that keep her busy.

"Yoga, swimming. Play mahjong. Play bridge. There's so much to do," she said. "It's just so nice to be able to meet up with people without having to worry about, 'Oh, my God, how much is this going to cost?'"

Even though she didn't know anyone in Penang when she first arrived, it wasn't hard to find her community.

She joined expat Facebook groups and began attending meetups hosted by fellow members. She's still friends with some of the people she met at her first event.

Deciding what's next

While the MM2H has made Malaysia an attractive place for expats, the most recent rule changes, announced in 2024, included stricter financial requirements.

There are now three categories of the visa. Depending on the category of visa they apply for, applicants are required to have fixed deposits of $150,000 to $1 million and also buy property in Malaysia.

Tozer isn't due to renew her visa for a few more years, but she says that will be when she starts thinking about whether she wants to return to New Zealand.

"I'm not sure at this point. Eventually, I might need my kids around closer. It just depends on what happens," Tozer said.

She said that her time in Malaysia had been fulfilling and that moving to a new country alone was not as scary as one might think.

"One of the reasons I came here, particularly to Malaysia, is because it's safe. For a single woman, that's quite a big consideration," Tozer said. "There are lots of places I wouldn't move to on my own, but Malaysia, no problem."

Do you have a story to share about relocating to a new city? Contact this reporter at [email protected].

• Ellen Pompeo, who plays Meredith Grey on "Grey's Anatomy," has no plans to leave the show completely.
• "To me, it doesn't make any sense that everybody gets to profit off of my hard work," Pompeo said.
• In 2018, she successfully negotiated a deal to earn over $20 million a year on "Grey's Anatomy."

Ellen Pompeo isn't ready to scrub out of "Grey's Anatomy" just yet.

"That would make no sense, emotionally or financially. The show was streamed more than a billion times in 2024. More than a billion times," Pompeo told El País in an interview published on Sunday.

The studios and streaming platforms behind the medical drama generate significant revenue from the actors' likenesses, voices, and appearances, she said.

"If I were to walk away completely, everybody gets to make money from my hard work for 20 years and I wouldn't make any money," Pompeo said. "To me, it doesn't make any sense that everybody gets to profit off of my hard work."

Not only that, the show — which has 21 seasons — holds a special place in the hearts of many viewers, she added.

"I want to have an attitude of gratitude toward the show," she said.

Pompeo believes that women in the industry need to continue to work together and speak out about pay equity.

"I think that it takes all of us women standing up for each other and supporting one another. I've had so many women be so kind to me and supportive of me, and I have tried to do the same for other women," she said.

The pilot episode of "Grey's Anatomy" aired on March 27, 2005. Pompeo, who plays protagonist Meredith Grey in the drama, stepped back from her role beginning in Season 19, which ran from 2022 to 2023.

Although she reduced her onscreen appearances, Pompeo still serves as the series' primary narrator.

This decision was in part due to her desire to spend more time with her kids.

"I've been doing it for 20 years, so it was time to step away. I have three children, and I love spending time with them, and I love being involved in their lives," Pompeo said.

Advocating for pay equity

Pompeo has always been candid about her journey toward achieving pay equity on "Grey's Anatomy."

In 2018, Pompeo told The Hollywood Reporter she managed to negotiate a deal worth over $20 million a year, including a salary of $575,000 per episode and a seven-figure signing bonus.

"I'm 48 now, so I've finally gotten to the place where I'm OK asking for what I deserve, which is something that comes only with age," Pompeo said, adding that it takes "skill" to still be good on a show 14 years in.

Not only that, she felt affirmed in her decision to prioritize her financial independence when negotiating her contract.

"And I'll tell you, sitting in rooms full of Oscar-winning actresses listening to how they've been preyed upon and assaulted is frightening," Pompeo said. "And it confirmed that my path really was the right one for me, because I've chosen to financially empower myself so that I never have to be ducking predators and chasing trophies. It's not for everyone. You have to be more interested in business than you are in acting."

In February, Pompeo told People that "the best thing" about being on "Grey's Anatomy" was financial security.

"It's been really lucrative, and I think financial security is not something that every actress is afforded, so I'm very grateful for that," she said.

During an appearance on "Call Her Daddy" in March, Pompeo told host Alex Cooper that she didn't want to join a TV series because she wanted to be a movie star. However, she ended up auditioning for "Grey's Anatomy" because she was broke.

Outside Hollywood, the gender gap exists in many other industries as well.

Payscale's 2025 Gender Pay Gap Report, which surveyed over 369,000 participants in the US, found that women earn just 83 cents for every dollar men make.

In 2024, the Chamber of Commerce compiled data from the Census Bureau to create a map of what the gender pay gap looks like in different US states.

A representative for Pompeo did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent by Business Insider.