Devindra: What's up internet and welcome back to the Engadget podcast. I'm senior editor Devindra Hardawar, this week I'm joined by senior reporter Sam Rutherford. Hey Sam. Hey, how's it going? Going okay. And also podcast producer Ben Ellman. Hey Ben. We've got so much news. So much news, including a quick update on pretty much everything we talked about last episode.

A lot is happening. both in the tech world and in the political world that affects all this, too. So this week, we'll be diving into some of the updates from the TikTok ban that, that was not. Some thoughts on that. I have thoughts on the NVIDIA RTX 5090, which I spent a couple days, most of this week reviewing, but I wish I had gotten it earlier.

Sam has a lot of thoughts on the Samsung Galaxy S25 launch event, that impact event. And we will all be breaking down kind of the new political order with the new Trump administration. A lot of things have happened, a lot of executive orders and clearly a sign of like what they plan to do when it comes to the environment, when it comes to the tech industry, all sorts of stuff.

Stay tuned to the end of this episode. I'll also be chatting with YouTube project manager, Jack Greenberg. He's in charge of YouTube premium which is launching some new features this week. We get into a good conversation about that and how useful that service is too. It's one of those things I like.

And I think kind of an undersung great streaming service. As always, if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe to us on iTunes or your podcatcher of choice, leave us a review in iTunes, drop us an email at podcast and engadget. com and have to say. I guess not RIP TikTok. So here, here was the thing last week we talked about with Carissa Bell from Engadget.

We talked about the potential TikTok ban coming and a lot of stuff happened after we recorded. So the Supreme court unanimously, unanimously said that they're not going to stop the potential ban. And then Tik Tok had a bit of a countdown on Friday and Saturday. I saw a lot of posts from people that were basically, here's my last post.

RIP. Thanks for all the, you know, thanks for all the memories and something.

Ben: And more than that, it was tearful. It was so many people saying like, I felt like I built a. community. Yeah. There were some people who really relied on TikTok for like a significant amount of supplemental income. I saw at least one person who said they had a full time job, but they still count TikTok as their income from TikTok as like a significant amount of their.

Income that, like, really helps them live. This person was not an influencer. They were just, like, a person who posted a bunch and eventually got, like, a couple hundred thousand followers. That's, that's something, I mean, that's Every time, even if it's, like, a potentially dangerous service, I don't know, and we'll talk about, like, all that stuff.

Devindra: But it's a community, like, are you losing your friends? Even if you're losing your followers, you're losing like the thing you used to do every day. For me, TikTok was the place where I would love to just like sit and unwind after like the onslaught of bad news and everything. My daughter and I would love like scrolling it and finding fun videos and stuff.

Like just the way you discover things, a lot of fun. I don't know if TikTok meant anything to you, Sam.

Sam: No, I mean, I definitely feel for the people who like. When you build up a community and then the whole platform just gets taken offline and you're like there's a void in your life I you know, I think that's something that I think everyone can sort of identify in different route, you know avenues of their life Yeah,

Devindra: yeah, but it's just it's one of those things.

Sam: Yeah. Yeah Yeah, as far as like I'm not a big tick tock user or social media user in general So I didn't have as much impact on me. Although ByteDance which is, you know, TikTok's parent company. They also own some game published and stuff like that. So I couldn't play Yeah, that's

Ben: right.

Marvel Snap. Yeah, I couldn't play Marvel Snap over the weekend. And that that was just, like, really

Sam: weird. You, like, open up the game and it's just, Oh, we're we're we're gone. We're trying to come back soon. And then, hey, we don't know what's gonna happen. And then eventually they did come back and the game's back online now.

But it's just like That's just like a really weird side effect that like, I don't think people were, they were so focused on TikTok that they didn't think about all the other companies or apps that, you know, ByteDance is kind of in charge of.

Devindra: And we should, we should talk about like the broader political context here too, but go, go ahead Ben, yep.

Ben: Yeah, I can cover both of those things. So, what shut down on Saturday night? It was TikTok, it was Marvel Snap, it was CapCut, it was eventually Lemon8, which was, I think, I had not even heard of that. But yeah, yeah, a, a tick tock, like kind of competitor to Instagram or something. It was like a cross between micro blogging blue sky X style stuff and Instagram.

I noticed I was getting

Devindra: invites to lemonade within tech talk and I was still like, what the hell is this? Yeah.

Ben: Yes. Yeah. So after the Supreme court upheld the ban on Friday. Tik Tok did its big countdown of saying, Hey, we're going to be going offline as of Sunday. So everyone was doing their really like tearful posts saying, I've, you know, I'm going to miss everyone so much.

I saw one user mentioned that it felt like the end of eighth grade because everyone knew that they were going to different schools. So to speak, and nobody knew whether or not they were going to see their internet friends again.

Devindra: Every time a social network dies, it's that same thing. That's what I'm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben: I was hanging out. I was like scrolling to my heart's content on Saturday night. And I figured that we had until like 1201 Sunday morning, technically that didn't happen. The tick tock actually. Shut down around 10 30 or so. It threw up a Error message. Once you tried to sign into the app again, like if you closed the app It said at first we regret a US law banning tik tok will take effect on January 19 and force us to make our services Temporarily unavailable.

We're working to restore service in the US as soon as possible and we appreciate your support please stay tuned. And then within a couple of hours, it changed to a law banning TikTok has been enacted by the U. S. Unfortunately, that means that you can't use TikTok for now.

Yeah.

Ben: We are fortunate that President Trump has indicated that he will work with the U.

S. on a solution to reinstate TikTok once he takes office. Please stay tuned because this was happening the day before a new president was inaugurated on Monday, the 20th president elect at the time, Trump said that he really wanted to do something about saving tick tock and that this was one of his first priorities.

People were talking a lot about how Democrats really bungled into this situation because Trump was the one who started the TikTok ban in the first place He started it by executive order Then it was codified into law this past May of 2024 as part of an omnibus bill That ended up funding Weapons for Ukraine and Israel as well So it was kind of like a big national security like helping our allies sort of thing.

So there was a Like 12 hours 14 hours. I think 14 hours. Yeah, according to NPR that TikTok was not available and then it just came back and they're like, thank you so much President Trump Like we are looking forward to working with you in the future

Devindra: It's worth pointing out like how very clear that messaging was because this was a pop up message we were getting within tik tok and It was almost as if ByteDance was very much like politicizing its own base to be like, Hey it's up to the Trump administration to save us.

Hey, thank you to the Trump administration. Really painting a picture of like who is saved everybody's favorite social network.

Sam: Yeah.

Devindra: So I found that, that kind

Sam: of odd. That's my biggest just frustration with this whole saga is that. Trump originally manufactured the problem and then he gets to come back later and manufacture the solution when it was, it was all a bunch of nonsense to begin with and it's just like, yeah, you, you, and like, and then there's people cheering about, oh, how, how Trump saved Tik Tok and it's like, no, no, he didn't.

Ben: Yeah. It was also manufactured via xenophobia and xenophobia. You know, this was from the time when he was calling COVID 19 the China virus. And so of course this is like the China app or something. So this is coming from just like four sagas ago. In, you know, American politics.

Devindra: And now he likes TikTok because TikTok people helped him get elected.

He was, he was able to blow up on TikTok.

Ben: Allegedly. I mean, I think it was more of that. I think they

Devindra: invested a lot of money in in promoting his shit on TikTok too, so.

Ben: I heard one person mention a figure, please don't quote me on this, but the figure mentioned was that Turning Point USA, the conservative Like political action group for young people was getting something like 60 million views a month on TikTok and the Republican Party, Trump especially, was like, Hey, this is really useful to us.

Devindra: Yeah. And I'm sure we have not seen the numbers yet, but I'm looking at all the money Elon Musk was throwing around to help Trump get elected. Yeah. I'm sure all of some of that went to TPUSA too. We'll probably hear about that eventually. We should talk about like where we are right now, because we've got a lot of stuff to cover too.

So Trump has delayed the TikTok ban for 75 days via an executive order. That's where we are now. There is, there are discussions that he could not have actually promised that TikTok was going to be okay and the people, you know, serving TikTok in the U. S. There's actually no way to, for him to like assure those companies that they were okay to re enable TikTok and start serving the site again, because he wasn't president.

He was just a guy who was going to be president with no actual powers, but Hey, nothing matters anymore. Right? So he can say whatever he wants and sort of paint himself as the hero. once again, just, just a wild state of affairs.

Ben: Also the 70, is it 70 or 75 days? I see 75 days, at least on our story. Okay.

Yeah. So the 75 day limit also is like, has no basis in the actual federal law because the federal law says that if TikTok makes some significant motion toward divestment and like selling to a US company or something, then You can grant a 90 day extension where TikTok is no longer banned. So that would be three months.

So this is like somewhere in the middle. It doesn't agree with the text of the federal law. Trump is talking about some kind of joint partnership. And let's also remember like TikTok. Yes, does have some kind of connection to like China, Southeast Asia and you know, all of their like big headed bureaucrats and strong men.

So who knows if Trump himself is getting rolled by someone who is just a little bit smarter in dealing with leaders with a lot of they think highly of themselves, but they're not too smart.

Devindra: Yeah. There's a lot going on here. I also think it's worth pointing out that the TikTok that came back, it's sort of, this is sort of like a pet cemetery situation, if you're all familiar we're talking

Ben: about pet cemetery.

Yes. It's not exactly the same one that we had before.

Devindra: It's a little different. It feels like certain other content is, I think people are showing like searches around fascism, searches that were not particularly Trump friendly, were not working really well. Yeah, the algorithm's just a little bit

Sam: different.

Devindra: It's a little bit different. A lot of people have been saying that, at this point, it almost seems clear that Every major social network has basically been co opted by the right wing, or is at least leaning that way because they wanted to be goody, goody with the Trump administration coming in. So that includes Facebook.

That certainly includes Twitter slash X. The only one that is sort of like, it's not huge, but it's the one that has sort of prevented this is is our lovely blue sky. Because it's federated and it's avoiding like it's avoiding these particular, you know, issues. And it also has like a pretty progressive user base.

So that's just an interesting situation of where we are. I'm still like, occasionally I'm using TikTok now. I'm uploading to TikTok, but I'm like, now my blinder, my feelers are certainly more up in terms of how they're manipulating information, especially after all, they're you know, begging and praise for the Trump administration ahead of this too.

It's all kind of gross, social media in general. We're just, we're just like getting down a dark path. So anything else you guys want to add about. Where we are now, it's good with TikTok.

Ben: This is very much a developing story. Stay tuned to Engadget. Stay tuned to your favorite tech news, because the 75 day deadline is going to be coming up sooner than we think.

And who knows what's going to happen? Who knows what's going

Devindra: to happen? We, this entire weekend has been like a fricking whirlwind because like we were following the TikTok news. I knew. Chris and a whole bunch of reporters were like looking, keeping an eye on things on the weekend and writing stories over the weekend.

And then the inauguration happened and a whole bunch of more news happened. And I would just love for it to stop just for, just for a second for us to catch our breath. Yeah. Let's

Ben: talk about a gadget though, Dev. Let's talk about the 5090.

Devindra: Let's talk about the 5090. And this is NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 5090.

This is their flagship GPU. It is 2, 000. I spent a big chunk of time reviewing and benchmarking this thing. And I have a couple of takeaways. You can check out my review on the site right now. I gave an 88 out of a hundred. Not because I think it is a perfect card, I wish it was not 2, 000, I really wish Nvidia wasn't out here really pushing the limits of like, really just like pushing like the, the price range of like what a GPU can be the 3090 I believe was 1, 500, the 4090 Was 1600 and they're just like creeping up and up and up.

It's justifiable some like, it's a little bit justifiable in terms of what the Hardaware that they actually put in here. Like this thing has 32 gigabytes of DDR7v RAM. 32 gigabytes of RAM in a video card. My entire desktop system has 32 gigabytes of RAM right now. So that is, that's kind of where we are.

And I just have to take a minute to just sort of like. Soak that in. It is wild. Like what this card is. It has a 91 billion transistors. It has 21, 760 CUDA cores. At the same time, it is also thinner, like it's also skinnier than the 4090 was. The 4090 was a big hunk and beast. It was a three slot card that really took up a chunk of space inside my desktop.

This thing is a two slot card. It can actually fit into small form factor systems. So it's actually. Smaller, more efficient at the same time. Also more power hungry than the previous car. It just kind of a wild thing. Yeah. I saw a power draw of like

Sam: 550, 600 Watts depending on the like, you know, use case.

Devindra: There's a, in 3dMark, there are benchmarks that you can interact with, like really ray trace benchmarks. So there's one called Speedway. I did the interactive mode. So you can like move the camera around and look at characters and stuff. And once I did that, this card was. Eating 550 watts of power.

The card was a hundred percent. The fan was like really blaring, but not like super loud. It's actually not too bad for as far as like a high NGP goes. And what's really interesting is like, as soon as I quit that demo, as soon as I quit any game or something, it gets back down to a really decent idle temperature of like 35 to 40 Celsius.

So under that, under that benchmark, when it was fully under load, it was 79 to 80. During most games, it's like 70 Celsius. So these are. Good temperatures for video cards for people who don't know. And yeah, the the actual results to like benchmarks are good. It's a fast card. I don't know what to tell you.

Like it is a 2, 000 video card that is significantly faster than the 4090. And also if you add in the stuff around DLSS 4, which is NVIDIA's AI upscaling technology. Now it offers multi frame generation. Whereas with DLSS 3. 5, the last generation one it could, that one could generate one frame. For every frame that was actually being rendered by the card.

So it almost like doubled your FPS. This card, because of the way DLSS4 works and the increased reliance on AI and tensor cores, this card can basically NVIDIA says, like, deliver eight times the frame rates. Essentially, you can generate one three frames for every frame that's actually being rendered by the card.

So that's like a 4X upgrade, they call it, too. A lot, a lot of, a lot of frames. Let me tell you how many frames, Sam. The frames include 240 FPS in Cyberpunk 2077. In 4k, with all the graphics turned all the way up, with Ray Tracing Overdrive mode on, which is like the really intensive Ray Tracing 2, which is like fully reflective just a lot of detail happening there 240 to 250 FPS just cruising through that game.

Just wild. Like, I was a little gobsmacked seeing that number. If I tell you that, if I tell you this card can get those frame rates, are you impressed? Or are you worried about, like, the potential fake frames, Sam?

Sam: I mean, so the multi frame generation is sort of its own thing. And like, you know, there are some issues of that where, you know, you still, you know, it has, has its own set of artifacts and stuff like that.

But for me, like, you know, people have been talking about this idea of like 4k gaming for a long time, and we've never really had like a GPU that could deliver, you know, all the bells and whistles, graphic settings turned to max at 4k. Until it seems like with this, you know, with the 50, 90. So I think for me that that's a really interesting kind of just like, you know, benchmark just like of, you know, where gaming is at today.

And even on a personal level, like we were talking about this before the show where it's like, I really want to upgrade, you know, I have an older GPU, I have a, you know, a 2080 TI. And so I'm definitely a good card. It's a, it's a good card, but like, you know, I'm, you know, it's old enough. It's I'm due for an upgrade, but at the same time, it's like.

I would love to get like the top of the line flagship, you know, RTX 50, 90 card, but 2, 000 is like the, the, the entire price of what my, you know, desktop CPU cost originally, including the case and motherboard and all that. That's your entire system. Yeah, that's my entire system. So it's like, it's, it's really hard to justify.

So, you know, maybe, you know, I was like talking about, Hey, when, when the new cards come out, maybe I'll take a look at the 49 DC with the price drop on that is like, or, you know, maybe wait until later in the spring when like the 50 70 TI comes out or the 50 80. And then, you know, we'll kind of have like a better idea of like, you know, what this whole generation 50 series really looks like in terms of like, you know, price performance and what kind of value you're actually getting from that.

Devindra: That's a good point. Like, I usually tell people when new Hardaware comes out, if you don't, like, it's not always wise to jump to the most expensive flagship thing, look at the last gen, see how the prices drop. NVIDIA is saying that the 5070, the RTX 5070, which is 550, is as fast as the 4090 when it comes to frame rates, but it's including these generated frames.

So it's including AI generated frames that can match the actual FPS value of the 4090. But at the same time, there are a lot of other things DLSS four is doing a lot of that is also going to the older card. So they're doing like more efficient, retracing generation, more efficient there's all sorts of stuff.

The super resolution feature, which is the thing that like delivers higher quality textures, that is more efficient. That's going to be more effective. That's also going to work down to like the 30 series and the 20 series cards. So even the card you have, Sam, we'll get some benefit from this stuff. But yeah, the question is like, do you, should you invest in something like the 47 or 50 70 or 50 70 TI, which I believe is 200 more or even the 50 80 rather than a faster last gen car, like the 40 90, I cannot.

Like just given how involved the 4090 is and how big that card is, I can't imagine that thing is going to drop below a thousand dollars, you know, it's really going to depend on

Sam: the market. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Devindra: Like those cards probably, they probably didn't make too many of those cause it's the flagship.

Not many people were buying them. You may find some use, but I don't, I really don't recommend buying. Use

Sam: GPUs especially, I feel like are such a crapshoot where like, Hey, you could be lucky and it works great, but then. You know, if it doesn't, you're just like, you have no warranty, nothing to fall back on.

And so yeah, that gets really dicey.

Devindra: It's like buying a used hot rod because that's how gamers tend to run their GPUs. And these things are, they're drawing a lot of power. The fans are doing a lot of work. Like there are really easy ways for you to like fry a GPU or mess it up. If you're overclocking it too much or you stuff it in a case where there's not enough airflow.

There's a lot of ways for a GPU to go wrong. So I would just be really careful about that. For your purposes though, Sam, like you're thinking of buying your, so you're, you're considering like rebuilding your whole rig. So you're going to need a new CPU. You're going to need new motherboard. You're going to, you're going to need new, faster Ram actually too.

At the end of the day, I don't. I don't think anybody should justify spending 2, 000 on a single video card unless you are a creative professional or a streamer or somebody who are an influencer who is doing a lot of like high end video work because this thing does crunch through video transcoding faster than anything I've seen before.

If it's the cost of this will help you make money faster, you know, or make content faster, then yeah, that's justifiable. I don't think like that. It's a 2, 000 video card, like on a moral level. I'm like, no,

Sam: yeah, even for me It would be more of an ego purchase. I can't justify The like, the gameplay performance that like, you know, that home that like, I'm like, you know, I'm not streaming.

I'm not doing anything with this. I'm not encoding videos. Do you have

Devindra: a 4k 240 Hertz monitor, Sam?

Sam: No. And, and, but you know, one of those. So, and so this, this is all sort of like the big, you know, maybe possible 2025 desktop upgrade for me. It was like, I want a new monitor and I want to revamp the rig. And it's like.

And when you consider the price of a 2, 000 GPU, suddenly things are getting a lot more expensive than I originally budgeted for. And so I was like, all right, I got to, I got to come back down to earth.

Devindra: Also your children have to eat, you know, you can't spend all your money on GPU money. But

Sam: the

Ben: other thing is like the classic.

It's the classic issue of like, not wanting to put a Ferrari engine inside a, one of those seventies Volkswagen bugs, right? Like you need to make sure that the rest of your system can catch up or make the best use of this enormous graphics card.

Sam: Yeah. And the other thing that kind of think about it in terms of like a more you know, market perspective way is that part of the reason why Nvidia can price the 50, 90 at 2, 000 is because they have no competition.

AMD does not have an equivalent Offering for the 50, 90. And so you see that jump from 1, 600 last generation with the 40, 90 to 2000 with the 50, 90. And it's like, we really need more competition in at least in the top end GPU market in order for, you know, prices to be a little bit more, you know.

Devindra: I don't know if that's like AMD is right now saying like they're focusing on the mid range.

They're focusing on things that are like slightly more accessible. They're still doing some low end stuff, but Intel actually out of nowhere with their XCSS cards have actually been doing a good job. The ARC card that I talked about a while ago 250 bucks. There is some price gouging going on there, but you can still get that card for under 300.

It's a pretty good deal. It's really up to AMD. To kind of catch up to where Nvidia is. But a MD, you know, is doing their own thing. Like they're thinking of gaming graphics in other ways. 'cause they build the graphics that go in the PlayStation and that go in the Xbox and they think of integrated graphics.

They're not, they're thinking of like graphics that can be put into consumer boxes at reasonable price points that normal people can buy. They're not as interested in, I'm gonna make a $2,000 GPU you know, for crazy, crazy gamers. It'll be interesting to see what AMD does, because they talked about, they will have their own form of a neural network upscaling similar to DLSS this year, but they're not, they're doing some frame generation at once again, though, NVIDIA has like been here earlier.

They're doing multi frame generation generation. And let me say in cyberpunk in, what was it in Dragon in dragon Age? The Veil Guard, which also 200 FDA 250 FPS, everything cranked up 4K in Star Wars Outlaws. These games look buttery smooth. Like I didn't detect any of the artifacts that I used to see in DLSS.

Sometimes in DLSS, like really fringy objects like a metal grate or something, or something far off in the distance would like shimmer a little bit and look a little wrong. That stuff doesn't, like, doesn't really appear anymore. They actually have some new DLSS features that are also going to clean up the way their algorithmic upscaling works.

It is rendering these games at a lower resolution than 4K, upscaling them, but also doing all these other magic tricks. But, I, I kind of felt like Cypher in the matrix, right? I know the steak isn't real. I know the matrix is telling me that it's delicious and juicy, but I'm so tired. I'm so tired of like the low frame rates and the lack of feasibility for 4k gaming.

I'm like, ignorance is bliss, I guess, because I can't really tell. My eyeballs can't tell. It feels good. The latency is good. Just feels really good. After all that though, no, nobody should buy this card. You should not buy this card, Sam. It is irresponsible. It is immoral. It is. Nvidia just totally flexing.

I think the 5080, which is going to be 1, 000. Hey, that's really expensive, but if you can justify it and if you think it'll last you five years, sure. That

Sam: seems like more of a sweet spot in terms of like, value for performance.

Devindra: Well, I would say the 50, the 5070. If that thing really, if you can really get the 5070 at 550, it does a lot of these tricks.

You would actually do some pretty decent 4k gaming for people who have maybe 4k, 120 Hertz monitors, which are more common. Those have been around for a couple of years, 240 Hertz monitors only came out last year and they're really expensive. I think for most people like that card will actually serve you for five years really well.

Also, because. 8K gaming is not a thing. We're not really going too hard beyond 4K. Like 4K is kind of where we're going to be at for many, many years. I do not want to think about

Sam: 8K gaming in the, anytime in the future. Don't think about 8K

Devindra: gaming. The only thing people are thinking about is maybe higher refresh rate 4K.

And I'm like, Hey, we hit 240 Hertz. You're doing like decent 4K upscaling. We're good. We are good right here. And I was worried about like what this card would mean for the overall market. And, you know, what, what is gonna be the biggest gaming device of this year, Sam?

Sam: The, the, the switch to obvious. The switch to, I mean, it's not, it's not gonna be close either.

Devindra: It's going to be the switch to by a mile. And even in terms of like PC Hardaware, I think like the PC handhelds the gaming PC handhelds, this is a good year for those. 'cause those things are getting cheaper. The, I, I bought the retro pocket five and that thing was like 200 bucks. Two 50 bucks. Like they're getting so cheap, they're really capable.

But the switch to. It's going to be an affordable consumer device that will not deliver these frame rates. It's not going to render in 4k. It's going to look old. Like a lot of people are assuming it's maybe about as powerful as like a PlayStation 4 Pro, maybe slightly faster than a PlayStation 4, doing good HD, you know, gaming essentially, maybe just kind of solidifying 60 FPS, but it's going to be an underpowered machine.

That is meant for mass consumption that has weird features like a joystick that turns into a mouse That that's what matters is gonna matter more in the gaming world than a 2, 000 GPU This is a pure Nvidia flex. Nobody buy this card, even though it's like a freaking unicorn That's kind of where I'm at with this thing.

Yeah, so Ben any any thoughts hearing about this Hardaware? I'm thinking that you could really do some serious CAD and SOLIDWORKS work on this. You could. That you could definitely, like, model some protein folding.

Sam: Yeah, I mean, you know, like Divinder said, if you're using this in a professional manner,

Ben: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It

Sam: makes a lot more sense. But if you're just, you know, a regular home user playing games on it, It's, it's total overkill.

Devindra: Total over. If you're a video editor, if you are somebody who's dealing with streams, or if you're actually a successful streamer or influencer, then yeah, it may be worth having something like this, but also a lot of those folks are having other people edit their videos and handle stuff too.

So like they're not actually buying the Hardaware they need to support their stuff. It's a whole thing. 15 ID. Good card, check out my 2500 word review of this thing, and please don't buy it. If you buy it, please don't, like, just don't tell the world. I also feel like it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing to tell people that you bought an RTX 5090 in this economy.

In this world that is about to fall apart. I don't, I don't think so. So anyway, that's the 5090. If you have thoughts about this thing or you have questions that you want me to test, like things you want me to test on the 5090, I am in touch with the people from Topaz, the upscaling video software. I want to like do some video upscaling on the 5090 and kind of see what's possible with that thing.

So we'll do some of that. Hopefully we'll test the 5070. That's the one I really want to test soon. And yeah, stay tuned for more of our coverage around this stuff.

Let's move on to the stuff from Samsung, the Samsung Galaxy S 25 event. First off, like what devices were announced, Sam? And were there any major surprises?

Sam: Yeah. So this was kind of like as far as it goes in terms of, you know, unpacked events. It's kind of a low key event because we only got three new devices.

We got your base S 25, your S 25 plus. And the S 25 ultra. Now, depending on how you're counting, there were a couple other teases for some other devices that I think we'll get to later. But you know, even some of the people on chat were like, they were kind of given like, you know, big yawn snooze for this event, because at least on a Hardaware level, these are very, very similar to what we got last year and depending on how you're looking at it the year before that too.

Because display basically the same design, very similar charging speeds, very similar there's a quirk with kind of the wireless charging. And so the, at least the Hardaware changes comes down to two basic upgrades. Now we're getting the Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 Elite chip across the board and that's globally.

So that's really, really nice for, you know, Asia and some parts of Europe where they were getting Exynos chips unlike America where we always get the Qualcomm stuff. So that's really nice to see it's going to be available globally. Samsung says that it worked, you know, tighter with Qualcomm to kind of, it's not just an overclocked chip of the regular Snapdragon 8 Elite, they kind of changed some of like the, the ISPs or some of the, you know, individual packets inside the SoC.

So, it's kind of hard to know for sure how much that affects the overall performance, but that's what they're saying. And then for the ultra, just the ultra, there's a new 50 megapixel ultra wide camera. And that's kind of it in terms of new Hardaware performance. Samsung is claiming, depending on if you're looking at the NPU but about 30 to 40 percent better performance year over year, and about 18% faster frame rates in Vulcan based gaming.

So that's kind of what you're looking at in terms of like speeds and feeds. I have to say,

Devindra: looking at the new ultra Sam and that new camera and everything, I hate the way this phone looks what the yeah,

Sam: I mean, I don't want to go off on a huge tangent in terms of like, yeah, just phone design in general has gotten very samey basically, you know, you still get the titanium frame on the ultra, but the whole idea is just like, you have a very nice metal frame, you have glass in front and back and then you have, However, many number of little dark circles for however many cameras you have on the back and, you know, all, all the iPhone and pixel, the Google pixel does it to, they all kind of look the same in terms of like your standard smartphone.

That's not a foldable or whatever. And it definitely bums me out. Samsung. Okay. And so they probably a good segue to talk about how. Samsung did tease a fourth member of the S25 family in the Galaxy S25 Edge. And people were saying this is like the most interesting one of the bunch, and they didn't tell us much about it.

It's probably not going to go on sale until sometime later this spring or summer or whatever.

Devindra: So it was just a teaser image? It was just a little

Sam: teaser. There's a short clip to go with it. And they didn't tell us any specs, price, or anything about that. But basically, the S25 Edge is basically our super, super thin version.

Of the standard S 25, at least that's what it looks like. And there were rumors about an S 25 slim. And basically that's what it looks like. The S 25 edges. But the thing is, Samsung used to make edge phones long time ago with the Galaxy S edge S S I remember

Devindra: we were there. Yeah. The galaxy,

Sam: no edge, the galaxy S seven edge.

And they had cool, like it had a cool, like. Glass edge that you could use it to like put apps on and stuff like that, or at least app icons. But this is just a really, really thin phone. And so it's like, okay, fine. I guess you could do more. And so some people are saying this is the most interesting one of the bunch.

And I'm kind of sitting on the opposite side of that, because do you know why I'm not impressed because this is basically one half of a foldable phone. And then they just put a regular screen on top instead of a flexible screen. And it's like, what do you. Yeah, so the thinness is almost, it looks to be exactly the same thinness as like the galaxy Z fold, but you know, cut in half and then they put a glass screen on top.

Devindra: So they're probably, they saw those rumors about the ultra thin iPhone. I feel like Samsung is like, Hey, we, we got to have an ultra thin phone and we got to be for there faster. But I saw people getting excited, like, Ooh, screen on the edge. And I was like. We've been doing this for too long because I, I remember I, I was S25 Edge

Sam: does not have any of those features.

It's just a, you know, a regular metal frame. And so that's, you know, it's a thin phone. I thought I was really over the thinness wars and phones in general, but I guess people are excited about it again.

Devindra: Remember the Narnia phrase, do not speak the, the, the old magic to me, which I was there when it was written, I was there when the old, like Samsung you know edge phones were created, which had they had some features, they had like weird touch features.

This was a full decade before the, before the foldable phones or anything. Just kind of wild, kind of wild. And that was there. One more thing that was there after all the announcements, we've got one more surprise for you. Were people actually excited for it, Sam? I think like I said, it's like me,

Sam: me, maybe I'm out of touch because I think the idea of like a super thin phone, people are excited about again.

Maybe like, you know, younger people are like, I want, you know, I want some, they didn't

Devindra: know they weren't here for the last edge phone. So the Samsung, it's like

Sam: new feature. They see, they see like the galaxy Z flip is like, Oh, that's really nice and compact, but I want something a little bit more durable, but still, you know, fits in your pocket easy.

I guess that's what the S 25 edge is going to be.

Devindra: I see some software features. I hear a lot more AI features going on too. Anything notable that you want to mention?

Sam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So. This is kind of, you know, another iteration or a kind of revamp of Samsung's Galaxy AI suite of software.

So, they're kind of introducing this kind of concept called AI Agents. And that basically means that like, you know, you can use more natural language controls or voice commands to do things just a little bit easier. And also, a lot of the like, existing features have gotten renamed so that they kind of Encompass a bunch of different tools all in, you know, one kind of umbrella.

So for example smart select, which has been around forever on Samsung phones is now called AI select. Okay, cool. Okay. And you know, you can use it to like, you know, take screenshots, turn videos into gifts you know, summarize stories. And so this is kind of like. Hey, this is like your vision sort of like looking at the screen and giving you a bunch of options on what to do with it.

And so I think that's, you know, definitely nice and definitely makes it easier to use and easier to understand because you're not looking through like a giant menu. And the UI has kind of been changed so that, you know, if you do AI select, it'll kind of put little glowy highlights around different areas of the screen.

So like this,

Devindra: the Siri design. Yeah. What are we, what are we doing? Samsung, but you spent the last year saying Apple's shiny Siri border is kind of pretty and Samsung's like, oh yeah, it is pretty yoink. And so I think what Samsung

Sam: is like, you know, obviously learning from some of its competitors and figuring out how to make.

You know, AI a little bit more approachable. It's good, not terribly original though. Same thing for like, you know, sketch to image. Stealing

Devindra: is the word I'd say more than learning. Yeah. Yes, yes.

Sam: Same thing for like sketch to image, which is like, they're, you know, you use AI to like draw, and you know, you tell AI what to draw.

Now it's called drawing assist, so a little bit easier to know. And you know, they added some more features, so you can pull up an old photo and add an AI. You know, art to it, or you can use a text prompt to add AI art. And you know, the results are generally a little bit better, a little bit more detailed.

Okay, fine. But I'm, I'm, I'm really just not sure that like, this is the reason that was going to cause people to go out and buy a new phone. Yeah.

Devindra: Yeah. Just like, it's funny, we saw, we saw it. Do you sort of a summary of a couple of paragraphs of a website? The summary was just as long as those paragraphs.

On the website, just read, read the words, read the read totally. And, you know,

Sam: also once again,

Devindra: kind of cribbing off some others of a Sherlyn being really silly with the phone too. So yeah, definitely, definitely go

Sam: watch our video. You know, part of the, we were testing out a new circle to search feature, which allows you to kind of hum into the phone and get like, you know, Google to figure out, Hey, what song am I trying to identify?

It also just straight up a listen to music like Shazam. And, you know, Sheralynn she, she got a little heat for not, not humming APT by Rose and Mark Brown super well. And so, hey and then, and then she did it again and it was fine, but some other, you know, quick rundown of some new AI features.

So there's a new audio eraser. So obviously not something that is super new. We've seen Google do this, but. It uses AI to like analyze like wind noise and speech. So you can do like a live EQ and then, you know, tune the things up on the fly. Super easy. That's a

Ben: big thing. I love that.

Sam: And then the other big kind of new AI features what Samsung is calling their now brief and kind of now, now bar technologies.

And this is basically like. It's looking at what you do on your phone. It's looking at your calendar, your appointments, traffic, weather, and stuff like that. And it's trying to suggest, Hey, you know, for example, you have a meeting at nine o'clock, but your alarm is set for eight 30. You might want to bump that up a little bit.

And so it's like, okay, this is helpful. And you know, the now bar is kind of an offshoot of that. And it's going to appear on the lock screen and in your notifications. And it'll do stuff like, Hey, you want to watch you, you like the Detroit lions or, you know, RIP lines for, for this playoffs, but like, you know, it'll surface the score right inside your lock screen or on your notifications, but you can kind of already been able to do this before with some of Google's, you know, live notifications.

So not, it doesn't feel like, you know, a monumental change from what we have already. It's also

Devindra: funny looking, looking at Samsung's screens, like looking at their design for their UI and everything. This, this, this is just an iPhone. Like this is an iPhone whether it's all converging, this is, this is converging.

It's a magic island updates. These are magic island updates at the top and the bottom. Like it is, it is convergence. And I know Apple itself also took a lot of influences from what was happening on Android phones, especially around notch stuff. But I guess like the thing I've noticed is like Apple tends to work harder in developing a design language.

And wow, we're, we're still just like copying. We're still just like in a straight up copy, copy what these companies do. Okay. Okay. Sure. Yeah. There was one kind of other thoughts.

Sam: One kind of like small hidden thing. Samsung also says that you can use like, you know, natural voice language commands to kind of just manage your phone.

So you can go in and like, hey go in the photos the gallery app and be like, hey, find me a bunch of photos with voice commands of like, of wine or find me a bunch of photos from Las Vegas or whatever. And so, and you can even like tell it's like, hey, change the resolution of the screen or turn off Bluetooth or stuff like that.

Or you can, you know, say like, Hey remind me to watch, you know, the an upcoming sports game and it'll go figure out which game you're talking about and put that calendar notification in the calendar app itself. And so it's like. It's making it a little bit easier to do more complex commands just with your voice.

And I think that's just good from a general accessibility and just usability point of view. But like I said before, I'm not sure that you can convince someone to buy, especially for the ultra 1, 300 phone, just for kind of a revamp of AI features.

Devindra: Especially a lot of those features seem like they're hitting Google Gemini.

They're hitting things in the cloud. So are these coming to older Samsung phones?

Ben: Yeah. And the hum to identify a song thing, it's existed within Google for a while now.

Sam: Right. And it's, it's been available in Shazam for a while now. So it's like, once again, it's like, because a lot of these features are available elsewhere it's, it's it's kind of a hard sell that said, like the phone itself is still a great phone.

I was using it last night. You know, kind of preparation for the review and it just like. I love the screen, the design, you know, a little bit curvier around the edges. Very nice. And it's like, but the thing is, it's a, it's a really nice screen. It's a really nice phone, but so was the S 24 ultra. And so it was the S 23 ultra.

And so it's like, that becomes the really difficult, like kind of. Mental process or gymnastics. You have to figure out, I was like, is it worth upgrading from a year old phone, especially a year old S ultra? Definitely not from a 23 ultra or 22 ultra, maybe you're, you know, you're talking, you get, you got a little more, you know.

Overhead to kind of capture. Yeah. It's really tough.

Devindra: And I do want to, I feel like Sam, like just real quick, these phones don't exist for like, for us, I guess in a way, like they're not for the spec chasers or the people who are constantly upgrading. It's for like, you want the iPhone equivalent, right? Like you want a average consumer to go into the store.

What's the latest Samsung. Cool. Here's a new one. Doesn't it doesn't really matter if it's that much different than last year's, but yeah, go ahead.

Sam: Yeah And so I want to mention two quick things some kind of quirky things that Samsung did for the ultra specifically so they got rid of Bluetooth low audio on the s pen itself and That means you can't do air actions anymore.

Now Samsung's justification is that no one was using air actions They said like a very tiny fraction And even when they what are air actions, air actions is like you can do gestures with the pen to control your phone. And so you're, you're laughing and kind of that kind of, kind of hints at like why the movie is cause no one was doing that.

And even when they were, Samsung says the only feature that people were using. Was using the click function on the feature to trigger the, the phone's camera as kind of like a remote shutter thing. But because you can, you know, still hold your hand up in front of the camera like that or use your watch or your galaxy ring if you have one of those to, as a remote shutter, they kind of said, Hey, we're going to take this off.

It's going to make the, you know, S Pen a little bit more durable because there's no Bluetooth radios inside. And so it is a downgrade, but depending on how you use the phone, you might not even notice.

Devindra: That was like one of those wild, sometimes Samsung takes wild swings to be a little different and sometimes that works out well for them.

Sometimes it's like, we're going to make a big ass phone screen. It's called the galaxy. No, you look ridiculous. Holding it up to your head doesn't matter. Actually, people just want big screens and that, that banked for them, they'll fail with the fold, but still like do you success as generations and end up like owning a big chunk of that market.

Yeah.

Sam: And then the other, the other weird quirk is that. This phone officially does not support Qi 2, or at least full Qi 2. Samsung says the Galaxy S25 line is, quote, Qi 2 ready. Now that means that What

Ben: does that mean? What does it mean?

Sam: So and unfortunately, let me explain it. And it's really annoyingly, like, niche.

So, you can still wireless charge at up to 15 watts. That's kind of been around for a long time. But, one of the key components of Qi 2 is that The S25 doesn't have magnets inside the phone. So what all of the attachment points won't work unless you get a case that has magnets in the case. And so that's one job.

Samsung.

Ben: I know. And it's like, yeah, why do we think this is? Is it because Samsung wanted the phone to be like that much later?

Sam: I have no idea. Samsung has not give us given us an official statement on it. I think they're doing it to save a buck. I think, I think it's a purely cost saving measure. And it's really annoying because Even as an Android person, MagSafe wireless charging on the iPhone is one of the best things that Apple has done to phones in recent history.

Devindra: And MagSafe accessories, like just in general being able to slap my phone on my car dashboard, slap a battery

Sam: pack on it. Apple gave that tech to the wireless power consortium who built, you know, use those specs and protocols to help inform what she too is. And so she too is basically the exact same thing as MagSafe, but for all the other non Apple devices,

Devindra: this is hilarious.

And then, and then Samsung

Sam: doesn't follow through by making the S 25 fully ready. And it's like, yes, most people, you know, they're going to put their phone in a case, and they might, you know, if they get the right case, they might not ever know the difference. But it's like, why? You like, you're just making it extra complicated because you couldn't follow through all the way.

Devindra: And it's really disappointing. It's funny that Samsung is out here. Like I will clone the iPhone design a little bit. Like I think the, the base S 25, 25 look really iPhone y. They'll, they'll steal a lot of like UI designs. Apple gives you an actual functional tool that can make your Hardaware better.

Nah, no, What,

Sam: what is going on over there? All of the like MagSafe accessories work with Qi2 devices so it's like there's already a huge ecosystem of peripherals and accessories that you could use if you had, you know, were fully Qi2 compliant, but now you gotta worry about getting the phone and then getting the right case and then you're gonna be okay.

Devindra: So it's not Qi2 compliant. I think the word is Not Cheetu compliant because Samsung are being little jerks.

Sam: And for me, I don't like cases. So that means I got to figure out some sort of weird sticker add on. Or, you know, there's people out there who have like, you know, you can get like sticky adhesive magnets and put them on yourself.

And it's just like. It's just a really clunky solution. And I'm just generally not a fan of it.

Devindra: I can't believe you're still case free, Sam. You have you have two kids now and it's like, they're, they're going to destroy those phones. Phones

Sam: have gotten a lot more durable. People like people used to look at a phone wrong and it would just break.

Phones nowadays are actually pretty tough. As long as you don't mind some scrapes or scuffs on like, you know, the frame of the device. I'm not telling you to like. You know, throw your phone off a cliff or whatever. Sam will

Devindra: repay any broken phone that you have.

Sam: But like, you know, give it a try. Like, I drop my phone constantly.

I am not, I'm not saying like I'm a perfect human. I don't drop my phone. I try not to drop it on cement or concrete, but like You have a galaxy fold, like you, you, main foldable. Yeah, yeah, and so if, if, you know, if you drop it on like a wood floor, you're generally

Devindra: gonna be fine. Wood floors. Yeah. Yeah, the problem is you go outside and it's like, you know, concrete, it's asphalt.

It's a, or you're somewhere it's marble, like places that will just destroy the sort of like protective you know, gorilla glass stuff. So I'm, I'm shocked, Sam, like it has been a while since I've like fully shattered a phone, but still, even when I would get a new phone and like not put it in a case or put a screen, you know, a protector on it.

Just being in my jeans pocket will add little nicks and little scratches to the screen. I'm like, I don't, I don't know why this keeps happening. Yeah, I mean, I,

Sam: I, I think for me it's like I've come fully around to the idea that like, It's sad, but gadgets are sort of disposable and it's like no one's talking about, like, I'm going to put some sweet patina on my phone, right?

Like these are not antiques, right? You're not, you're not passing them down to your kids in 10 years.

Devindra: Well, some people, some people, some people are though. Like that's the thing. Well, the thing about having like an Apple device, right? I've got some great patina on my old iPads and it's great for kids. Like I have.

Sure, sure, sure. Sixth generation iPad from 2018. That's busted. That has a cracked screen. It's still streams video real good. It plays family

Sam: heirlooms. You're not putting him in your, your treasure vault and be like, look at these, you know, marvels of

Devindra: yesteryear, less than heirloom and more like, Hey, I have this device from a couple of years ago.

And normally what do you do? It's if it's an Android device, most often it's like trash or it goes to electronic recycling. A lot of other, like, I do appreciate device that can last five years. If you can go longer than five years. Oh, man. Then you're, then you're in a special pedigree and you know, we are well past five years with that iPad, at least.

Yeah.

Ben: Speaking of devices that are lasting five years plus, my microphone on the iPhone SE 2 came back. I don't know why it did, but I'm very happy that it did. You can't trust it.

Devindra: You can't trust it.

Ben: No, I can't trust it. I should get another phone, but Sam, let's return to the Qi 2 charging for just one second.

Does this mean that? If you were to put this S 25 on top of one of the like MagSafe charging pucks, would it charge at all? Would you need to perfectly balance it in order for it to charge?

Sam: If you put it perfectly on top of wherever the wireless charging coil is inside the phone, it would work, but because there's no magnets, if you move the phone at all or move the charging puck at all, it would just slide right off.

Devindra: It's killer problem, problem with wireless charging, and which is, that's why it's taken a decade for wireless charging to really take off, is that you plug in a phone, you know the plug the, it's plugged. That's it. You put it on a UNM magnetized wireless charging puck, somebody sneezes, and that phone moves half an inch.

You're not charging anymore and you're screwed. So,

Ben: I mean, that's the way a lot of charging pads worked. Not too long ago, within the last couple of years, I remember seeing, like, a bunch of third party ones that were kind of, like, you know, Ghost not Ghost in the Shell. What am I what the heck am I talking about?

Full metal alchemist style, like, alchemy symbols or something, and it'll, like, do a cool like, light show when you put your phone down. So that's not necessarily a bad thing. But you are returning to the logic of charging pads rather than the really satisfying, like, that you get out of MagSafe.

Devindra: This is what I use next to my desk right now.

This is one of those Belkin magnetized charging things. And you put this on, and it's when I'm doing video calls, the phone can kind of follow me. But also, like, it's You're good. You're good. It feels good. Magnets. How do they work? They work really well for wireless charging.

Sam: But unfortunately, they're not in the S25 unless you get a case.

Devindra: What are you doing, Samsung?

Sam: I would also, one small thing, you know, a lot of times when we get review devices, especially phones, the manufacturer will include a case with the phone because obviously, you know, you don't want to mess up the review device until you get the review out. Makes a lot of sense, right?

Samsung included a case with our, you know, S 25 ultra review unit. Doesn't have the magnets inside. So even though Samsung gave us cases and Samsung says they are going to make some first party cases along with all the other, you know, third party manufacturers. That have magnets inside. Even Samsung didn't provide a case that would add the full G2 compatibility.

Ben: So functionally, you can't wireless charge. Even with the review units. Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Devindra: You can, just not magnetically. Yeah, I can use a regular charging

Sam: pad, but just not any of the Fun Chi 2 magnetic ones.

Devindra: This is, this is a crack story for you, Sam or Sherlynn or somebody like, and it really, the only people are like the crazy gadget heads, but what the hell are you thinking, Samsung?

Like we, the world is fully on magnets for wireless charging. Chi 2 is here, Apple's on it, sharing stuff that there must be some like deeper, dumber story here. Is it just that Samsung wants to sell their own cases too? Like they want people to buy phones, but also buy their cases and cases are a big business.

You know, for a lot of companies. So maybe that's part of it.

Ben: So we're going to have the full review of the Samsung S25 coming up in the next few weeks. If you have any feelings about the new stuff that Samsung announced in the first unpacked of 2025, please email us at podcast at and gadget. com.

Devindra: Okay, well, we originally wanted to spend a lot of time talking about like the various many things the Trump administration has started doing this week and now that he is, you know, he's back in office back in the White House. There's a lot of stuff happening. And it's all very, very sad and making me sigh all the time, but a real quick, we'll roll through them.

And I think we're going to dedicate a future episode to a longer discussion of like, what is happening with the new Trump administration, but so far withdrawing from the Paris accords once again wind energy pause, cause remember he didn't like he didn't like wind energy, national energy emergency.

They're gonna refill U. S. Strategic Petroleum Reserves. Really, really wonderful for the fossil fuel industry. I've heard some commentary around that, and everyone's like, We, what emergency? We are the biggest producer of natural gas. And and of oil. We're a pretty big producer of oil. Like, yeah, we are doing really well.

But you know. The fossil fuel industry will make more money. Trump is revoking Biden's target for automakers to sell 50 percent EVs by 2030. Of course. There's also, yeah, stopping funding for EV charging stations through the national electric vehicle infrastructure formula program. I do wonder if that's going to be a helpful thing for Elon Musk, because Tesla already invested a lot of money, a lot of money they also got from the government to build out its charging network.

It doesn't really help them. If if there's more charging, right. Cause people will just go to Tesla superchargers hasn't been announced, but a lot of people are talking about the administration considering killing the EV tax credit stuff rolling back Biden's AI framework, anything quickly you want to mention Ben just happening here.

Ben: How can we possibly build a 500 billion worth of data center in Texas in four years?

Devindra: Well, you know, magic.

Ben: This, like, the scale of this boggles the mind. Like, yeah, eventually you can put in 500 billion worth of computers and their attendant infrastructure with the warehouses and cooling systems and all of that that you would need to do this Enormous scale project Stargate stuff that it's a project by what open AI and NVIDIA and arm and Oracle and Microsoft.

I really have to wonder whether or not this is going to end up looking like the Wisconsin Foxconn plant. It's gonna be Foxconn.

Devindra: Everyone's like he's doing a Foxconn like within within hours of becoming president once again. That is a lot of money that may not actually make it to an AI data center or, or really anything.

So

Ben: also it's just such an enormous amount of money that like people talk about, like the amount of money that just passes through the Pentagon and disappears, how much of that money is going to disappear? How many like contractors are going to be charging, you know, 900 for each screw they put in?

Devindra: Money is going to disappear.

Like this is what happened in Russia. This is, it tends to what happens in, you know, oligarchy. It happened during the pandemic with the the PPP loans. Happens during the pandemic. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. But you keep your rich friends happy seeing everybody you know, at the inauguration party, seeing Mark Zuckerberg and his wife all dolled up and ready to like, hang out with the Trump administration.

It really does feel like. Oh yeah, the rich are celebrating because they are going to milk this for all it's worth. It is going to be like the PPE thing you know, kind of all over again. It's going to be big

Ben: time government contracts. And like, really don't be surprised when you see Palmer Luckey in the news again.

He went directly from Oculus to defense contracting.

Devindra: Well, to he, a smart border control like that. That's what it is because he's funded by Peter Thiel. And it's all like. It's a whole thing. We are going to be talking about all this stuff because it's all really, really sad. We're not even, we're barely mentioning the fact that Elon Musk did a full on Nazi salute twice, twice.

And what really makes me sad is that we have not learned anything. Like as a, as a country, our media organizations haven't learned anything. I saw the New York times. I saw the Washington Post be like Elon Musk. Made a controversial hand gesture.

Sam: Right, they're calling it the Roman salute, which I guess is technically accurate, but you know that's not what it is.

I

Ben: mean, yes, it's historically accurate, but let's also think about how we just mentioned Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel bankrupted Gawker. on purpose because he was annoyed that Gawker outed him as a gay man. These guys have so much money. If they wanted to bring petty lawsuits that would lead to more layoffs at the Washington Post or the New York Times or, you know, the Chicago Tribune.

If the Chicago Tribune was brave enough to say that, yes, they're afraid of lawsuits.

Devindra: That's why ABC Settled it, their, their fight with Trump as well. Like it's, this is the world we're living in too. Pay attention to facts. People pay attention. Like when, when we see a video feed of something happen, then it's edited and you know, after the fact people are saying, oh, no, no, that's not really what happened.

It's getting really, really Orwellian really quickly over here, but

Ben: You really got a shout out WIRED for finding a really smart way around this using the same kind of logic that Andrew Gillum used in his debate with Ron DeSantis. Their headline was, Neo Nazis love the Nazi like salute Elon Musk made at Trump's inauguration.

If the Neo Nazis on the internet, if the founder of Gab likes what Elon did, then what does it really matter about the discussion about whether or not it was like an actual Nazi salute? We're going to keep talking about this. This is not going to be something that is just one week of discussion.

Devindra: This is a big, big red flag to like, we've seen Elon Musk retweet racist and antisemitic memes.

We've seen him like really be buddy, buddy with white supremacists, but this was, this felt like a real. Big moment because like in with his whole heart with his whole heart. He hit his heart and with a small grunt multiple times These like his online friends and the 4chan people will say oh, yeah, he's just trolling.

That's that's the entire point though He's trolling to the point where it is just full support of fascism It doesn't matter if you're joking or not, like this is the reality he's building. Anyway, things are pretty dark That's why we didn't start with this conversation because it's it's all kind of scary But we are definitely gonna follow these stories.

I want to talk to people especially working in misinformation and also media manipulation Because I saw several video streams that specifically cut out the the Nazi salute, and that was like at NBC, that was at major media organizations, and like that is the stuff most people will see. Most people are not going to see the Wired article or the online conversation.

And then this stuff will just be whitewashed, you know, and then it'll be like, Oh yeah, some progressive activists think he was doing a Nazi thing, but he was just really excited. It was his you know, And then it comes around to the idea

Ben: of like, if the video feed that most people saw was not the gesture that he made, then people are going to say, you know what, that's AI video manipulation.

Sam: Also in the show notes I don't know someone dropped a link to a German paper DZ. And then, so. The, the headline, you know, translated is that was a Hitler salute. It's a, it's a, it's a, or it's a Hitler salute. Nazi Hitler salute. And it's like, if Germany, people from Germany who obviously are most familiar with this and are actually, you know, pretty sensitive about how, you know, these things have, you know, happened since world war II.

If they're, if that's what they're calling it, I'm, I'm going to say, Hey, maybe they got a point.

Devindra: Maybe they have, I mean, a lot of people have a point. This is a whole conversation. I will say DZ did a really interesting thing too, where they also basically blocked the actual gesture because they can't, I think you can't even show it in German, German

Sam: has very harsh laws about, you know, portraying a Nazi symbol, symbolism for them to like, take it.

As seriously as they are. And then for us to, you know, portions of the U S to kind of just blow it off as it's like, it didn't mean anything. That seems like a really weird disconnect. What a world we're living in. It's only been,

Devindra: we are in week three of 2025, everybody week one, two, or week four, technically, but Yeah, I wish we did.

I would have loved to live in just a precedent at times. I would love to live in common, like normal times. But anyway, we were, we're going to be talking about all this and certainly what the Trump administration is going to be doing for the tech industry, for the world at large, for the environment you know, against the environment, I'd say.

But yeah, if you have thoughts, drop us an email podcast at ingadget. com. All right, let's move on to pop culture picks. What do you want to shout out, Sam?

Sam: Oh I've just been watching Sakamoto Days it's, it's really good. It's the whole premise is that there's a very famous, like, spy who just, like, God like good, everything spy related.

And then he retired to become a, you know, kind of convenience, your standard convenience store owner. He's a family man. Yeah, he's a family man. He, you know, he got a little chubby. He got a little fat, but he's still like just as like cool and as good as he was before. And I know like some of like, you know, the manga diehard people were like, you're kind of clowning on the anime because you know, the animation quality or the art isn't quite as good as you know what they're expecting from, but that always happens.

I was like, just go give it a watch for yourself. It's on Netflix. Pretty accessible. And I think, you know, if you like a good action anime, you'll probably get sucked in right away.

Devindra: It's fun. It's funny. Like it's, it's, the thing is like I watched, I was excited for, cause Netflix was promoting this for a while and I think it's just fine.

Like it's perfectly fine. I wish the animation were better. I also like that it just really sunk in. They're Kenshin. Which itself was sort of like an offshoot of all the like revenge assassin like movies from the 70s and 80s and everything like there were a ton of movies that did that. Rurouni Kenshin built this whole like mythology around a master assassin who became this like bumbling peace, peaceful person.

I'm getting a lot of those vibes, but also without the energy, without the fun. Yeah, the, the Sakamoto is definitely more comedic, definitely more lighthearted.

But it's also ultraviolet, it's lighthearted and ultraviolet, which I think is kind

Sam: of a fun

Devindra: kind

Sam: of

Devindra: dichotomy, but yeah, it's very anime in that, like, yes, he can block bullets with chopsticks, you know, it's, it's sort of like, you're just going to have to like, you know, just go with the, go with the flow.

I'm going to check out more episodes, though. It's not as good as Dan to Dan, which is a complete like, Ooh, yeah, that was easily

Sam: one of my favorite shows of 2024.

Devindra: I was actually going to talk about Sakamoto Days as well, so that, that covers it. But yeah, check it out. It's on Netflix right now. If you just want like something to turn off your brain and like forget about the world a little bit, it's perfectly, perfectly fun at that.

Did I shout out Pantheon again? Pantheon's real good. I think I mentioned that last time. But yeah, you mentioned it a couple of weeks ago.

I finished Pantheon. That is also on Netflix right now. When it, that is. Fantastic. So if you want like a cool thing that is cyber punky, that has lots of shades of ghost in the shell, there are references to Neon Genesis Evangelion in there, but it's an American show that was on AMC and, you know, just wasn't a big hit there.

It's on Netflix now, Pantheon. Check it out.

Ben: Okay, thank you everybody for listening. Our theme music is by game composer Dale North. Our outro music is by our former managing editor Terrence O'Brien. The podcast is produced by me, Ben Elman. You can find Sam online at At Sam Rutherford on Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it.

And you can find Devindra

Devindra: online at At Dendra on Blue Sky. I am on the tiktoks at Dendra Talks there. But I also podcast about movies and TV at the film [email protected].

Ben: And you can find me at hey [email protected]. Email us at [email protected]. Leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on anything that gets podcasts that includes Spotify.

Devindra: Here's my chat with Jack Greenberg, project manager at YouTube about YouTube premium. A whole bunch of new features that launched this week. You can check out the story in gadget. com and also, you know, I'm not trying to sell anybody in YouTube premium here, but I do really like it if you're the sort of person who watches YouTube several times a day, if you use YouTube instead of you know, broadcast TV.

Or you know, other streaming services, it is totally worth spending the money to remove ads. That's really the main thing. You can really breeze through YouTube without ads. So they're not sponsoring us or anything here, but I'm just saying I find it super, super useful. Here's my chat with Jack Greenberg.

Jack Greenberg, thank you so much for joining us in the Engadget podcast. Yeah, thanks for having me. Can you tell us a little bit about your role in kind of what you do at YouTube and over there at Google? Sure. Yes. So I'm a, I'm a director of product management. And I, I lead the YouTube premium team.

So I look after what you get as far as features of the subscription as, as well as how you buy it, what plans we offer. That's kind of, that kind of thing. Gotcha, gotcha. I think listeners to this podcast and my other shows like I kind of bring this up everywhere I think YouTube premium is kind of one of those like magically great streaming services I don't think too many people talk about you know, I think people are used to YouTube as being this free thing That's just like a you can go there anytime watch a few ads, but see whatever you want, but to me getting rid of those ads and also just kind of like seamlessly plowing through content on YouTube.

Like it's been so useful to me. How do you guys think about, you know, convincing people that the premium offering is worth it? Because I don't know if a lot of people think just removing ads is enough, you know, that's fair. I mean, so YouTube premium at the end of the day is, is for people that. Already love YouTube.

And, and, you know, we're, we're so excited that YouTube's a home for so much video content, music content, that sort of thing. And, and, and we're proud that that ad supported experience enables that. And so users can connect with their favorite artists and creators. And, and you've seen recent announcements where we're adding features just a few months ago, we were adding collaborative playlists and a sleep timer and all, all kinds of different things.

And so it's always evolving and improving. So for Preem, it's really additive. It's, it's okay. Well, for people who really love YouTube, how can we give them even more? And so of course it's the, it's the ad free. You can download videos, listen in the background. And today we'll talk about how we're, we're adding some additional.

To, to, to really make that a deeper experience for, for people who, who, you know, YouTube is TV to them. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of, I kind of feel like that. I don't know if it was a gradual transition or what, but my wife and I, like, we just ended up, YouTube is the thing we turned on to like, Hey, we are going to catch up on late night skits or something, or we didn't catch SNL, but you kind of.

YouTube kind of surfaces the good things that you, you kind of miss. So that's been our gateway to catch up on TV and catch up on that. We've started following creators and smaller channels and stuff too. I am really interested though. Like I think there are, there are arguments that somehow YouTube may sometimes make the free service worse to push people to premium.

How do you guys kind of balance that? Like, how do you balance making the free service actually compelling, actually useful without being too annoying, but also, you know, yeah, making. Premium something people may want to check out to we really do think of them as as these two different tiers and and and you really in layers.

So you know, we're always developing the ad supported service where we are adding features. I, I don't, I wouldn't characterize it the way you, you know, or in terms of like moving between it's, it's really like, as we're, as we're adding, what can we add? And, and so when my team is designing for the, the preempt here, we're going through the user feedback, we're, we're looking at what people are asking for.

We're, we're also looking at the, the data in terms of how people are using the product, right? Like and saying, Hey, a lot of people, like for instance, today, and, and, you know, in, in, in what we're working on, Hey, a lot of people are liking downloads. Yeah, we, we haven't had downloads on, on shorts. And so let's bring that experience to, to shorts.

So it's, it's that sort of evolution that is the way we think about it. I do want to talk about some of those experimental features, the new stuff that you guys are announcing today. Specifically high quality audio. Which is again, I am a home theater nerd. I'm a bit of a, you know, I'm a hi fi nerd at times too.

It is really great to see that YouTube Premium's getting 256 kilobit audio. I know you guys have offered that on YouTube Music Premium. Is there a reason like it took so long to bring it over to just the plain video side? We've been really focused on the YouTube music app as like where that that's your music experience and and and that's that's where You have your radios your playlist that sort of thing and and it goes back to that that user feedback again People told us hey I, I, I love that.

And that's really my lean back listening. That's where I go for, for, for music. A lot of the time, and why can't I have that same, that same audio quality and in the main YouTube app as well? And so, so that's like, you know, it was, it was more of a, when we think music, we think YouTube music. And I think many users do as well.

But, but it's just kind of like one of those expansions, those, Those like why not kind of thing. Why not? I mean, especially for things like music videos, I didn't think that this would be a thing I'd be spending a lot of time on YouTube, you know, looking at, but I have two young kids now. My wife and I also like to like go back and look at, you know, nostalgic music videos that we all love.

And that is a thing. I guess will people have to re upload, I guess, videos if their audio hasn't hit 256 kilobits, or like, how is, how is the, you know, audio upgrade process going for older videos? So, it obviously does depend on what was uploaded, and so we, we have to work with what we have. Generally for this particular, like, expansion, if, if it's been, if it's been available at that, at that level in the YouTube Music app, we're using the same backend.

So, I, I, we haven't I haven't, at least I haven't heard sort of that, that request or need. But if, if, if you're a, if you're an artist or creator, really just making sure that you upload in the best quality possible and we can, we can kind of take it from there. Gotcha. I feel like indie artists are pretty good with that.

I like watching NPR's tiny desk concerts too. And I feel like that would be, yeah, that would be, I'm sure they will lean into like getting as much audio quality as they can on those things. You did bring up, you do, or we were, we're talking a bit about it. YouTube music, and I have to say that is one thing I still can't quite wrap my head around or like, I guess how I use it.

Right? Like I, I know YouTube music has some of the things that are also on YouTube. I'm still not quite sure why I need to be using a whole separate app for that. Also, I'm not quite sure why some things that are on YouTube music aren't on YouTube proper. That whole, the whole organization finding things process is kind of confusing.

Is that, is that something you guys are thinking about? Have you heard this feedback at all? So different people like different experiences, I think is the is the it's like the classic product manager answer for folks that are saying, Hey, I'm in a music mode, you know, whether I'm listening while I work or work out or in the car.

YouTube music gives you that experience and, and you don't have to look for the music among the other things. And, and, and so, you know, and, and people have their, their favorite music apps that they go to. And so that's, that's where that app comes in. You, you actually you lifted up just a second ago that sometimes when you're watching TV, you'll want to kind of in the spirit of nostalgia, go, go look at.

You know, classic music videos, that kind of thing. That's a different use case. Right. And so I think that's, that's actually where you know, we're, we're learning and figuring out how to, how to meet the needs of everyone is that for that use case that, you know, very well might be something where, Hey, the, the, the, the main, you know, Everyday YouTube app is just fine.

So it's, it's really kind of letting people find what's best for their needs. And, and, and it's even for me, I'll use both apps in the same day. I'll, I'll fire up the YouTube music app. Cause I want some music to focus on while I'm working. And then later on. You know, I may be browsing new music videos from that week because I'm more watching.

And so it's, it's, it's, it's really, we're trying to enable different use cases. And, and it's funny, you were mentioning before we jumped on that, you know, YouTube is so many things, I think in the sense of YouTube is also so many different. for, for people in their lives. I almost wonder, like, I've kind of imagined like it'd be super useful.

So YouTube itself just had like a music mode, you know, had like a button I could push where there were a whole bunch of channels that just play records and DJs play albums and stuff. It's super cool, but I don't always need to see the video. I would love like a way to shut that, like, I don't know, minimize that or make that less of a thing.

Just, just something, something I'm kind of thinking about. But yeah, that's fair. And I think that it's, our products are always evolving. So, so I think we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll keep thinking about that. I feel like you guys have almost remade Winamp, you know, like, but just on the web and Winamp started as being like this cool little music app, but then you had videos in there, you had streaming video in there.

I remember like forcing real player video in there at some point. So it's, yeah, we're just kind of rebuilding the past, I guess, in some ways. There's some real nostalgia for you. Yeah. Yeah. Just to hear you guys also announced a picture in picture mode for YouTube shorts on iOS, smart downloads for shorts on iOS too.

Let's talk a bit about those features. Specifically because I'm really wondering how you guys are thinking of YouTube shorts now in comparison to tick tock, you know, I feel like everyone's, everyone's in conversation with tick tock or trying to compete against them. Or Instagram reels or whatever.

These two features seem useful, but how are you guys thinking of YouTube shorts just as a service right now? Yeah. So shorts have, have just been amazing for the YouTube ecosystem. They, they let, they let creators have a whole new way of creating content, right? Vertical, short form video. And so that's, that's just enabled all different use cases.

For, for when, when you're not going to be, you know, making a 20 minute video or what have you. And so, you know, we're, we, we really see Shorts as a, as a core part of YouTube as a platform. And then as far as these features, it all goes back to like our pream users. Tell us, Hey, I've been downloading videos for the plane.

I've been, I, I, it's, it's so great when I get a text from my friend and I'm multitasking, I can just flip over, keep the video and picture and picture, and those weren't there on shorts because shorts is new and, and, you know, we, we, we, we hadn't done it yet. And so we, we, we are, we are bringing those to shorts now.

And so that's, preem gives you more features more capabilities and, and we just need to make that a reality on, on shorts as well. I mean, yeah, I totally get that. I totally get the need for something picture in picture, but I do know like some tech talk videos, I think the live videos in particular already just offer picture in picture capabilities.

So what is it? It is weird that this seems like a really core feature that a lot of people could use in on the free version of YouTube. What's, how do you guys think about like what you define as like a premium? feature versus something that will go to the free users. It's an iteration is, is the short answer.

And, and, and our team talks about this a lot year by year. Sometimes when, when we're developing roadmaps and features, people say, Hey, how do we think this might look in a year or two? And so a lot of times it's, it's, Hey, let's make, let's, let's start with what makes sense today. And so what makes sense today is really expanding the existing free and preempt feature set.

That may change in a year, and a lot of times it does change as the industry evolves, as what creators are looking for or what creators are creating evolve and what the use cases have also, you know, this is this is a expansion of today's preamble features, and we'll have to see where it goes. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see one thing I have to say about YouTube shorts, like it's been fascinating to see how you guys have just jumped into this idea of short form video.

I'm not sure if I like the the TV experience for YouTube shorts. Have you guys thought about like how? That's presented because I guess like when my parents do a lot of YouTube watching as well, I share my premium account. You know, it's part of the family plan. And once they get into like a short video, they have no idea what's happening.

Right. Because the YouTube controls kind of changed a little. You can't pause them. Right. And then you can't like navigate properly. You can only go up and down as if you were swiping a phone, but doing it on your TV. I feel like that navigation experience is confusing to them. Have you, how have you guys thought about implementing Schwartz?

On the TV side, I guess any changes in mind. It's really been focused on enabling that kind of same use case, which is it's it's easy. It's quick, that sort of thing. So, you know, but I think it's feedback like this that is really super helpful to figure out where we need to go next. And I think it's funny you mentioned because so shorts and shorts and long form are kind of two modes of using using YouTube.

And it's similar how you're talking about the music. Is there a music mode? You know, getting these user experiences optimized and making it so that, you know, folks can easily switch between them is is a continual sort of work in progress. And, and, and we're, we're learning as we go to, to make sure that You know, we, we move quickly and, and bring shorts into YouTube, but we'll need to figure out how, how that mode evolves for sure.

Is it, is it a limitation of the platform? Because I also remember the sort of battle YouTube had to even get 4k on the Apple TV. That was the thing, like as, as a home theater fan, like it was it was weird to see like that whole thing happen. Is it just tough to implement something like shorts on, on Apple TV or on other platforms?

Cause I can imagine if it was just like, Hey, a quick overlay on top. Like a top, the YouTube interface rather than being black out the screen. Right. And you're just watching a video like a whole separate video. To me, that would be a little faster, a little, you would understand it's not a proper YouTube video.

It's just like a quick thing you're taking a look at. Are there, are there difficulties in terms of implementing YouTube shorts on Apple TV or other platforms like Roku? So in where you two, we, you know, in terms of all the different devices and apps, there's, there's of course, nuances as we move from platform to platform.

I think, you know, we, we. We were really proud of our TV experience and, and, and I think the usage follows along just in terms of how many people really enjoy YouTube on TV. That being said, like, yeah, when my team is designing our premium experiences on TV, you're often working with a remote with, you know, an up, down, left and right.

And so that, that brings new challenges, but, you know, it also brings new opportunities that, that people have this, this control right in front of them. So, you know, yes and no, it's, it's hard to give kind of a concrete, you know, it changes things just like we need to change for swiping on phones and having a trackpad on on like a web experience.

It's it's different platforms have different needs. Gotcha. You guys are also bringing over the whole the conversational AI feature to iOS as well. I actually haven't played much with this. Can you give us a sense of how this works and how do you guys see it being? Like, do you see this being more and more of a thing more people will be using over time?

On on YouTube, just talking to it, I guess. Yeah, and so there's actually, there's, there's two features that we were, we were talking about how we've been, we've been working on. And so I'll start with the conversational AI is when you're when you're watching a video, there's, there's a little ask button.

And, and, and it gives you a place where you can ask questions about the video. You can ask for related videos. You can kind of think of it as like a wall watching type experience. We know that's a thing, right? People they might be watching a cooking video and want to know what ingredients they need, that sort of thing.

And so, you know, we're, a lot of it's that we're watching how people are using it and learning about which use cases are really resonating. But we're excited that, that Basically, we're expanding, soon we'll be expanding it to iOS. It's been on Android. And so, it's that wall watching type of experience.

Which is very different if I, you know, I would love to talk about our AskMusic as well. Where that's not a wall watching. That's like a, I want something to listen to experience. Yeah, let's talk about AskMusic. Because that's also something I have not really played much around with. I've been mainly an iOS user, an Apple TV user.

So, was that an Android feature that's coming over as well? Yeah, so we're, that, that's been in, that's been an Android feature and that's been in a, a set of countries that we're expanding now to the, the UK and Ireland as well, so it's, it's a continued expansion, and this is one where a lot of times, especially in a music context you're saying, hey, I, I want a certain type of music and, and we've had different types of playlists and different recommendations, and of course, to try to meet those needs, and this one says, hey, let, just Just tell us, right?

Like, so, and so the other day I was, I was, you know, I, I want a, a cheerful, upbeat you know, pop mix, and, and what's really cool about it is it's, it's not just gonna give you a, a generic one, it, it's gonna give one that actually integrates with your recommendations. And so, you know, you can really talk to it kind of like your friend when you're trying to, when you're trying to figure out what music to put on.

Just say kind of the mood you're looking for and, and it will, it will, it will kind of take it from there. Gotcha. Is there like a new recommendation engine going on there? Like how does that differ from, you know? Just when you search around for something on YouTube. Yeah. Well, we're, we're actually, we're, we're talking now about like entry points for it and exactly how should it work in search right now.

It's, it's it's right in your on your homepage. And so instead of just tapping on one of the playlists or, or, or what have you you, you tap on it and then you, you. You type in or you can use the microphone to basically say just in natural language what you want. So it's, it's a more open ended way of starting.

But yeah, we're, we're actually, I was just talking with the team about, about search and kind of how it, how it can evolve as part of search too. Yeah, I mean, I think the conversation right now for the past few years has been really focused on AI and kind of how all the Every big tech company is kind of going gung ho on it.

I am wondering something like Gemini I guess the power of having better better searching capabilities that could be powered by generative AI Is that something that could eventually help you to develop a better algorithm when it comes to? Searching for videos or finding like a hard to find thing. Some like, sometimes I'm like, I remember music videos about a girl who's wearing some kind of dress or something like there are things that are hard to find sometimes that I know are on YouTube, but sometimes it's just hard to get access access to.

Is that something Gemini or a future form of AI could be helpful with down the line? Potentially, right? And I think that's kind of the stage where we're at. I mean, broadly across YouTube, we've been focused on the use cases and the viewer needs, the creator needs, and really looking to AI to make YouTube the viewing experience more helpful, or to make watching videos more accessible or to help you know, creators find inspiration, right?

And so, we've been really focusing on those, and I think the one that you're, you're raising up in terms of finding a video, AskMusic is, is, is our, you know, start to that but there, there's plenty more to do, and I think just, just that, that open endedness you know, some, we've had, we've had things like Suggestions and sort of moods and that sort of like preset kind of pieces.

I think, I think the whole industry has for a long time, but, but being able to really just say, you know, give me a sentence about the type of mood you're looking for. I, I think it's going to, it's going to create a whole different way of, of getting started in, in your music and your, in your video, et cetera.

Awesome. Awesome. Anything else you want to add about how things are going into premium or stuff you were looking forward to personally seeing, you know, implemented over the next year? Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just lift up that that a lot of what we're talking about today is a set of experimental features that that we're we're we're launching them early.

And at first, when when we started doing this, we weren't really sure what the sort of reaction was going to be. And and I think it all goes back to that premium users are excited about. About the the platform. They're excited about their favorite artists and creators, and they're excited about the new features.

And so for the first time, we're we're making, you know, it's so that you can opt into a whole bunch of them at once. Oh, yeah. And so and and so instead of having to just pick your favorite one you know, you can you can try as as many of these as you want that we talked about today. And and the big thing is, we really do value the feedback, and we want to hear from users in terms of what do they see in premium?

Right? Like we're, we're creating a subscription on top of YouTube. We, we, we'd love to hear from our users about sort of what, what they would like to see next. Gotcha. I will, I will add one to you there. Parental control, better parental controls. I don't know. I don't know. Like, so I just want to block the toy videos.

I want to block like their videos of people just playing with Peppa Pig toys. And it's like, no, I just want my kids to see Peppa Pig. Please. It's in general, like how is YouTube thinking parental controls and kind of like more kids are watching YouTube, more kids are watching content on tablets and things like that.

Is that a big responsibility that YouTube is thinking about at this point? There's a lot of different use cases to YouTube, and I think making sure that we have a great experience for kids and families is so important. And so yes, we're, we're, we're always kind of working to evolve these, these different use cases.

I don't have anything to. Kind of specifically to dig into today. Sure, sure. I do appreciate the lock screen feature that is, has been very helpful on iPads on cars, so appreciate that. Well, Jack, thank you so much for chatting with us. Hope to chat soon and can you let us know, like, where can people find you online if people want to catch up with you and what you're doing at YouTube?

Great question. Yes, I'm on, I'm on LinkedIn. People feel free to reach out there. Yeah, no socials that you want to, you want to share. We'll keep those private. Don't nobody, nobody. Yeah. Reach out to Jack. It's okay. Thank you so much for joining us, Jack. Thank you for having me.