• The cofounders of Hello Interview said the tech job market is tough right now due to multiple factors.
• There are fewer positions than at the height of hiring in 2022, and that means companies can be choosier.
• Junior engineers face the toughest challenges, Evan King and Stefan Mai wrote for "The Pragmatic Engineer."

Just a few years ago, you only needed to be a "competent" software engineer to land a job. Now, you have to be perfect.

That's according to Evan King and Stefan Mai, cofounders of interview-prep startup Hello Interview. Previously, King worked as a staff engineer for Meta, while Mai has experience as an engineering manager at Amazon and a senior engineering manager at Meta.

"There is little incentive to pass someone who doesn't get everything entirely correct," King and Mai wrote for the The Pragmatic Engineer newsletter. "This is the grim reality of what happens when there are so many qualified candidates in the interview pool."

A series of unfortunate circumstances have created the perfect storm for out-of-work engineers, they said. For one, there has only been about a 40% increase in the total number of jobs available since the market hit rock bottom in 2023, and companies are increasingly picky about who they onboard.

And with engineers of all experience levels competing for a reduced number of roles, candidates are increasingly facing interviews that King and Mai said are only becoming harder to clear.

"While the core interview structure at Big Tech remains largely unchanged, the bar has shifted approximately one standard deviation higher across the board, and performance that would have secured an offer in 2021 might not even clear the screening stage today," they wrote.

Engineers in niche specialties are doing better, King and Mai said, with the hiring market seeing an increased demand for those who have knowledge of "AI infrastructure" and "machine learning operations," among other things. Those in "core domains," though, which the authors designate as frontend, backend services, and mobile development, are seeing fewer openings.

The challenges aren't all equally punishing, though. King and Mai write that junior engineers, particularly those first entering the market after graduation, face the toughest field of competition.

They spoke to a job seeker who graduated from the Indian Institutes of Technology — which the authors describe as the "most prestigious computer science university in the country" — and has been trying to land a position for 6 months, having applied to over 100 companies. The former student hasn't received a single offer.

"Companies that once maintained robust university hiring programs have dramatically scaled them back, which is concerning because this could create an experience gap that impacts the industry for years to come, and could manifest in a 'missing generation' of engineers," they wrote.

As for what junior programmers can do to increase their odds, King and Mai suggested shoring up on the fundamentals.

"The technical bar for junior roles has risen dramatically, making mastery of fundamental algorithms and data structures essential," they wrote. "Successful junior candidates typically solve 150-200 coding problems across all difficulty levels before interviewing. You must be a stronger coder before anything else."

Though the competition is severe, it's not impossible to break through, said King and Mai. They wrote that though the interview process has essentially become a "specialized game," candidates do have one advantage — the rules are public, and interviews can be practiced.

"The process might seem arbitrary, but with proper preparation, it's entirely learnable," they said. "Anyone with sufficient dedication can master these patterns and significantly improve their performance."

In a follow-up conversation with Business Insider, Mai said the current job market heavily favors the prepared.

"For those who are able to put in the effort, and willing to put in the effort, I think the market is still one where you can find a job," he said. "If you talk to too many people, you'll encounter a bunch of engineers who've been really, really struggling, but there are plenty of people who are making moves and getting their positions."

• Cars and car parts are on the long list of goods that Donald Trump hit with tariffs this week.
• One dealer said he was bringing in extra vehicles and parts to get ahead of the duties.
• Customers bought cars ahead of the tariffs to secure cheaper prices, the dealer said.

This as-told-to essay is based on a conversation with Scott Kunes, COO of Kunes Auto Group, which operates about 30 auto dealerships in Illinois, Iowa, and Wisconsin. Kunes spoke to Business Insider on Wednesday, the day President Donald Trump announced new tariffs on various goods, including autos and auto parts. BI verified his identity and role at the business.

The interview has been edited for length and clarity.

This last week has actually been a really good week for the auto industry in general. The National Automobile Dealers Association put out an estimate that industry sales are up 14% month-over-month just in the last week as the tariffs came to fruition.

We did see a rush for people to purchase vehicles and get ahead of the tariff issue. We're seeing that short-term sales bump but are also planning for the future.

Pre-pandemic, the standard for dealers was to have a 90-day supply of many cars. Then, we pushed for a 60-day-or-less supply depending on the manufacturer and the make and model.

Right now, we are trying to get as much supply as we possibly can — but not getting overextended.

Everybody looks at import manufacturers like Honda or Toyota and says, "Well, these are the ones that are going to get the tariffs put on them." That's not actually the case: Hyundai, for example, is in a terrific position, with a lot of its major models being manufactured here in the United States.

We're definitely looking at our parts supply chain as well. We do a large wholesale business in parts, especially in the body business. Some of those things might be affected, like body panels. We're just trying to make sure that we have the stock and can weather this as long as possible.

Obviously, the entire country experienced inflation over the past four years, but the auto industry experienced it quite a bit more.

But recently, consumers were starting to get a bit of a break with lower interest rates, prices coming down, manufacturers offering heavier incentives because demand was down, leasing coming back very strongly, and lower payment possibilities.

Now, we have another thing that jumps in and starts to get everybody scared again.

These tariffs are going to affect consumers in both the new and used markets.

I think a lot of dealers kind of figured out a playbook during the supply chain crisis during and after the pandemic. There was a pivot from new vehicles to used vehicles. We saw three-year-old vehicles transacting higher than what they were purchased.

Some used-car lots are buying vehicles and fixing them very cheaply using parts that might be made in China. So, these tariffs are actually going to affect those lower-end price-range vehicles.

We don't know if these tariffs are going to last a month or for years. And will prices rise dramatically? Some of the manufacturers have talked about eating some of the costs.

Ultimately, I think most of us in the auto industry look at the tariffs and some of the bargaining that is going on as a positive thing for the United States auto industry in the long run. They'll boost US manufacturing in general, though it is going to hurt in the short term.

But as auto dealers, we always try to evolve. We're going to try to find ways to make sure that we're still selling vehicles and that we're still meeting our consumers' needs and demands.

Are you affected by the latest tariffs and have a story idea to share? Reach out to this reporter at [email protected].

• I missed much of my own kids' childhood, so when they had kids, I wanted to see them grow up.
• At just 41, I retired so I could spend more time with my grandkids and live closer to them.
• I lived off my military pension at first and later worked part-time and learned watchmaking.

After more than 20 years in the British Army, I looked around and realized both kids had grown up and gotten themselves partners. Although divorced from their mom, I'd always been in their lives but had missed so much of them growing up during my service.

When my daughter Chantelle announced I was going to be a grandad at 41, I decided I didn't want to miss out on the next generation. I couldn't afford to give up work entirely but was determined to find a way.

Some months later, when Daisy pushed her little nose into the world, I instantly fell in love and knew I wanted to spend as much time as possible with her. I handed in my notice at my removal job, and four weeks later, I found myself unemployed, with minimal savings, and looking for somewhere to live close to my children.

I didn't have as much money, but I loved spending time with my grandkids

At first, my military pension was my only income. It wasn't much, but it allowed me the basics, and I loved spending time with Daisy. Over the next seven years, another four grandchildren came along, as both of my children provided me with bundles of joy.

During that time, my standard of living stayed the same. My kids knew I'd moved close to help them and offered me a room in their homes, but I stayed in my rented room to allow all of us space. I thought many times I'd better get a job, but every time, one of my kids announced there was another one coming, so I stayed as the full-time babysitter, did school runs, outings, and went to parks, and all the other wonderful stuff I'd missed out on with my own.

Eventually, though, as they started nursery and school, work beckoned. Yet, having enjoyed so much freedom and time with the little ones, I was adamant I wasn't going to work long hours; I wasn't ready to sacrifice my family time just for a little more money.

I worked part-time at a supermarket before finding my real passion

A part-time job stacking shelves in my local supermarket was my first wage in almost 10 years. I'd forgotten what it felt like to see money going into my bank, but at the same time, I realized it wasn't for me. I needed to do something I had a passion for. My trusty old Seiko, purchased many years before, was becoming not so trusty and gave me an idea. How hard could it be to fix a watch?

I watched a few YouTube videos that made it look easy, and after a few months at the supermarket, I'd saved enough to buy the tools to service my own watch.

Obviously, it's anything but easy, but with my Seiko in bits and me crying over YouTube videos of skilled watchmakers instantly fixing broken timepieces, I'd become hooked.

I worked part-time at the supermarket for more than three years, and those wages and my pension allowed me to live comfortably, spend loads of time with the grandkids, and attend a yearlong watchmaking course in my local adult education center.

Fixing watches with my own hands brings me joy

The feeling I had when I finally saw my Seiko working, thanks to my own hands, was something I'll long remember. The feeling I had when I serviced a friend's watch was akin to fear, and the feeling I had when I got paid the first time for fixing a watch was joyous.

I left the supermarket and concentrated on working during school hours repairing watches. It's a continuous journey of discovery, and though the money is often better it's not as steady, so occasionally, I'll go back to the supermarket. However, now 61, sitting at my desk in my two-bedroom flat with one of my grandchildren as we take a watch apart, I know it was absolutely the perfect time to retire.

• The Abilene City Council approved a tax abatement for Crusoe's data center campus in Texas.
• Business Insider obtained a copy of the agreement via a public records request.
• Crusoe, the data center developer, could get an 85% property tax break.

The developer of the first Stargate data center in Abilene, Texas, could get an 85% tax break on billions of dollars worth of property, according to a new tax abatement agreement obtained by Business Insider through a public records request.

To qualify for the tax break, AI startup Crusoe will need to spend a minimum of $2.4 billion of a $3.5 billion "targeted investment."

President Donald Trump announced Stargate, a joint venture between OpenAI, Oracle, and SoftBank, at a White House press conference in January. That month, Business Insider reported that Oracle is the tenant of two data center buildings under construction on Crusoe's data center campus in Abilene, which is widely assumed to be Stargate's first site. The estimated cost for those buildings, $1.1 billion, will count toward the targeted investment.

Since then, Crusoe has registered two more data center buildings with a state agency on the site. No tenant is listed for one of those buildings; Oracle is listed as the tenant for the other.

Crusoe has agreed to build six new data centers, each with a minimum square footage of 100,000, on Lancium's land in Abilene. These will join the two it is already constructing for Oracle.

Data centers create jobs—although some say it's not enough

A local news outlet first reported the abatement after the Abilene City Council approved it in February, naming the site's landowner Lancium as the tax break recipient.

The abatement requires Crusoe and Lancium to create 357 new full-time jobs with minimum salaries of $57,600. The does not specify what kind of jobs need to be created, though the hiring timeframe indicates that construction jobs will likely count toward the quota.

Critics of tax abatements for data centers have said that they don't create enough jobs to justify the tax breaks. Proponents like to point out that the sites can employ thousands of skilled laborers during the construction period.

Property tax abatements are common financial incentives used by local governments to encourage companies to operate in their cities and towns. Specific property tax breaks for data centers vary widely depending on locality. Loudoun County, Virginia, home to the world's largest concentration of data centers, does not abate property taxes for data centers. In New Albany, Ohio, a fast-growing data center, data centers have been granted 100% property tax abatements.

Stargate's expansion plans

Oracle executive chairman and CTO Larry Ellison has said the first Stargate data center is in Abilene, though scant details have emerged about the massive AI infrastructure initiative since Trump's announcement.

In February, OpenAI CFO Sarah Friar wrote in a LinkedIn post that the company was evaluating additional locations in Texas, Pennsylvania, Oregon, and Wisconsin for Stargate.

Crusoe announced it is developing a data center campus in Abilene, though it has not publicly confirmed that it is connected to Stargate. Public filings in Texas show that Oracle is Crusoe's tenant, Business Insider reported in January.

To finance the Abilene development, Crusoe entered into a $3.4 billion joint venture with private credit company Blue Owl. JP Morgan has lent $2.3 billion in construction financing to the project.

Lancium declined to comment. Crusoe, Oracle, and the Development Corporation of Abilene did not respond to requests for comment from BI.

Contact Ellen Thomas at [email protected] or on Signal at 929-524-6964.

• The stock market took a dive on Friday, and the latest tariffs could increase consumer prices.
• We asked top finance influencers for their No. 1 piece of advice right now.
• Some said don't panic while others advised prioritizing budgeting and investing.

Finance influencers are swooping to help ease the panic after President Donald Trump announced new tariffs this week and the stock market plunged.

Personal finance is a popular category on social media platforms like YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. Hundreds of creators share tips on how to save money, invest, build credit, and balance a budget.

We asked top women finance influencers to share their No. 1 piece of advice for navigating this moment. Their responses ranged from, "don't panic" to budgeting tips like negotiating bills and creating a cash buffer.

"True financial resilience comes from having (and sticking to) a clear strategy — whether that means tightening your budget, prioritizing building your emergency fund, or strategically acquiring undervalued assets when opportunities arise," Tolani Eweje, who writes the Substack newsletter The Creator Success Club, told Business Insider.

Here's what other creators said:

'Stay the course'

Tori Dunlap, the creator of Her First $100K with 2.2 million followers on Instagram, encouraged people to avoid "panic-selling."

"My No. 1 financial tip right now is to stay the course," she said. "The stock market is like a roller coaster — there will always be ups and downs, but the people who build real wealth are the ones who stay strapped in for the long haul."

Bola Sokunbi, the creator of Clever Girl Finance with 356,000 followers on Instagram, also said, "Don't panic." She said to focus on long-term financial goals.

Mallory Rowan, a finance influencer with 108,000 followers and host of the YouTube show "The Inbetweeners" said, "Reflect on what it is you need to feel good about your money, regardless of the global climate, and what that tangibly looks like."

Rowan said that check-in can look like regular money chats with your partner or making changes to feel like you have forward movement in your investments.

'No level of income is above budgeting'

Mal Baska, who has 30,00 followers on Instagram for her Money Talk Mal account, said to get your budget in order.

"No level of income is above budgeting to some degree," Baska said. "Having a pulse and a plan for your incoming cash flow is key to financial security all the time — but especially during times of uncertainty."

Nadia Vanderhall, a financial planner with 8,000 followers on LinkedIn, said to look at your last month of spending and see what expenses have gone up, like groceries or gas. Use that to shape your budget for the next month.

Baska also said now is the time to negotiate your salary and costs, such as auto insurance, cellphone, and medical bills.

"Lock in pricing before companies really get hit," she said. "This can help free up cash flow in the budget."

'Prioritize creating a cash buffer'

This is also the time to bulk up your emergency fund, a few of the influencers said.

"The No. 1 piece of advice I'm giving people is really to prioritize creating a cash buffer," Sokunbi said. "If you have an income coming in right now, this is the time to be saving money."

Baska recommended opening a high-yield savings account and budgeting to grow that safety net if you haven't already.

'Turn today's dip into long-term gains'

The silver lining to a market downturn is the opportunity to buy quality stocks and index funds at a discount, said Kelly Anne Smith, the creator of Freedom In A Budget, which has 53,000 subscribers on YouTube.

"The market has a history of recovering over time, and that rebound could turn today's dip into long-term gains for your future," Smith said.

Sokunbi also said this could be a good time to invest — if you don't need the money within the next five years and already have your cash buffer in place.

"If retirement is not anywhere around the corner, this is the stock market on sale, and we love a great sale," Sokunbi said. "So take advantage of it, keeping in mind that you want to have a cash buffer in place so that if you do need the money, you don't need to cash out your investments."

Travel where the exchange rate is strong

Rising prices and a weak dollar don't have to ruin your travel plans.

"Go somewhere where the exchange rate is strong and in favor of your home currency," Vivian Tu, the creator of Your Rich BFF, wrote Friday on Instagram, where she has 3.4 million Instagram followers. She was unable to speak with BI by press time.

Tu said some "great places to consider" for US-based travelers include Mexico, Poland, Vietnam, South Africa, Japan, Brazil, Portugal, and Ireland.

• President Donald Trump's sweeping tariff plan tests the limits of executive power.
• Some GOP lawmakers have publicly split from Trump, proposing bills to rein him in on trade issues.
• Four political scientists told BI the bills are symbolic objections and are all but guaranteed not to pass.

Even though new bills are being proposed to rein him in, don't hold your breath waiting for Congress to stop President Donald Trump's sweeping tariff plan.

Republican Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa and Democratic Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington on Thursday introduced a Senate bill to limit a president's power to impose tariffs. The bill would allow Congress to vote to end any tariff at any time, require the president to provide Congress with 48 hours' notice before imposing any new duties, and require Congress to explicitly approve any new tariffs within 60 days.

Four additional Republicans — Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Thom Tillis of North Carolina, and Jerry Moran of Kansas — have signed on as co-sponsors to the bill. Republican Rep. Don Bacon has also said he'll introduce a companion House bill with similar provisions.

Business Insider spoke to four political scientists who each said that, while the bills proposed by the Republican lawmakers represent the first time some members of the president's party have split with him publicly since the election, the proposals are largely symbolic objections and are all but guaranteed not to pass because, even with the support of Democratic lawmakers, the bills simply won't have enough votes.

"Congress has the ability, but Congress, as it's currently constituted, does not have the will," Justin Crowe, a professor of political science at Williams College, told BI. "There's virtually no chance, at least in the near term. Were we to be in a fuller-blown trade war and we had some kind of economic downturn of a serious magnitude over the next number of months, potentially, you could see Congress trying to step in. But in the near term, that seems remarkably, vanishingly unlikely."

Justin Buchler, an associate professor of political science at Case Western Reserve University, told BI that, technically, the proposed bills shouldn't even be necessary since the Constitution grants Congress the exclusive power to levy tariffs and duties. However, in recent years, lawmakers have taken a less active role in doing so, instead allowing the executive branch to execute tariff policies within the guidelines defined by Congress.

Congress won't claw back its trade power

Six different statutes exist to control how the president can use tariffs. Only three carve-outs exist to allow the president to impose tariffs without a congressional investigation. Still, only one has ever been used: the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, which allows the president to declare an emergency under the National Emergency Act to regulate or prohibit imports.

Trump cited that power on Wednesday when he announced sweeping 10% tariffs on goods imported from almost every country into the United States and even higher tariffs for 60 trading partners with a persistent trade deficit with the US.

According to the National Constitution Center, the other two presidential tariff carve-outs, which have never been used, stem from the Trade Act of 1974 and the Tariff Act of 1930. Portions of these laws allow the president to enact temporary tariffs to address balance-of-payments deficits and tariffs on goods from foreign countries that discriminate against US commerce in certain ways.

But the political scientists told Business Insider not to expect Congress to try to claw back its trade power in any real way.

"We're in this weird position where, constitutionally, no legislation should be necessary because what Donald Trump is doing is so far beyond the bounds of what the Constitution permits that nothing should be happening at all," Buchler said. "But the courts aren't going to stop him, and given that there's no way that Congress is going to reach a veto override point — and probably can't even get anything through the House, given that Mike Johnson is not likely to let anything come up for a vote — it's probably a moot point."

Supply chain experts and economists previously told Business Insider that Trump's wide-reaching "Liberation Day" tariffs are expected to result in higher prices for everything from pantry staples like coffee and sugar to apparel and larger purchases like cars and appliances. The market has tanked in response to global trade uncertainty, with stocks suffering their worst single-day loss in five years on Thursday.

And while members of Congress are no doubt aware of the economic turmoil stemming from Trump's aggressive trade strategy, there's little incentive to risk using up their political cache on a losing battle — at least for now.

"I think they're going to wait to see whether their constituents complain," Susan McWilliams Barndt, a professor of politics at Pomona College, told BI. "I think they're really going to wait to see if their constituents tie their complaints to the tariffs, and then I think it's going to be a couple of weeks before we really see any real response from Congress."

Patricia Crouse, a professor of political science at the University of New Haven, agreed, telling BI she expects "The only real pushback may come if it costs Republicans seats in the 2026 election."

• Childfree people may be saving too much and spending too little, one financial planner says.
• Childfree Wealth's Jay Zigmont said people without kids who don't want to pass on wealth should spend it.
• He recommended they help others early in life, keep a cash cushion, and plan for long-term care.

Many childfree people should be spending more and saving less, one financial guru says.

One reason they may be too frugal is conventional financial plans often assume people have kids or want them, meaning those without children get a lot of "bad advice," Jay Zigmont, the author of "The Childfree Guide to Life and Money," said on a recent episode of Morningstar's "The Long View" podcast.

While parents often set financial goals with the intention of leaving money to the next generation, that often isn't a priority for people without kids, Zigmont said. Focusing on how to maximize their health, their wealth, and their time is often a better option, he said.

The certified financial planner, who holds a PhD in adult learning, said he and his wife plan to give whatever they leave behind to their nephews. "If they get $10,000 or $100,000, that's fine. But if they get $1 million, we made a mistake," he quipped.

Moreover, many of Zigmont's childfree clients don't plan to retire fully but instead plan to "dial back on work rather than a complete cutout."

Zigmont said if they don't want a load of money to their names when they die, and they plan to work until late in life, that changes the calculus for their spending.

He simulated one client's wealth trajectory over their lifespan, and found they were on track to die with $100 million. The client laughed when he said they have a "$100 million problem," Zigmont recalled.

"If your goal is not to leave a whole lot of money to your estate or wherever else it is, you are saving money and investing it in a way it doesn't match your goals," he said.

Minimum spending goals

Another client still buys frozen blueberries because they're a "dollar cheaper" than the fresh ones, and a third with tens of millions of dollars to their name is "still cutting coupons," Zigmont said, underscoring how hard it can be to break a saving habit.

He works with clients to set minimum rather than maximum annual spending goals to help them bend their net-worth curves and avoid accumulating wealth they don't want.

"I had a client the other day, like 'You'd be proud of us. Last year we spent double what we did the year before!' And I'm like, 'Yes, and we're celebrating it,'" Zigmont said.

The personal finance guru also touched on a mid-life crisis that many childfree people have where they've hit many of their life goals in their 30s and 40s and begin wondering what they're going to do with the rest of their lives.

"Those are the tough questions that we as childfree people are answering much earlier that often parents don't answer until the empty nest phase," Zigmont said.

Lend a hand early

He addresses the problem by asking people, "What's the second line of your obituary say?" That helps them to figure out what's meaningful to them, and where they should devote their time and energy.

Zigmont offered a raft of advice for childfree people, such as helping others early in life instead of waiting until you die, maintaining a cash cushion to avoid going broke, and taking out a long-term care policy in the absence of family care. He also recommended writing a will, appointing an executor, and allocating financial and medical power of attorney to ensure one's affairs are handled after death.

Shrewd planning can help those without children make the most of their freedom when young while ensuring they're set for old age and beyond.

• Airbus engineers shared plans for its next aircraft, planned for the second half of next decade.
• They're aiming to increase fuel efficiency — reducing emissions and making operations cheaper.
• Innovations include open-fan engines, folding wings, and automatic taxiing.

While Airbus has pushed back plans for a hydrogen-powered plane, it plans to build a high-tech plane that is cheaper and more environmentally friendly.

Business Insider got a look at the tech that might drive it.

At its recent summit in at its headquarters Toulouse, France, CEO Guillaume Faury told reporters it was developing a new single-aisle aircraft to succeed its A320 family and enter service in the second half of the 2030s.

He said the hydrogen-powered plane was canceled as it risked being "a Concorde of hydrogen" and not commercially viable at scale.

He said a next-generation plane would not come with "incremental optimization" but "clean sheet designs." He also predicted a "gloves-off" competition to build a next-generation airplane with Airbus' US rival Boeing.

This is the new tech it's developing.

Open-fan engines

Higher fuel efficiency is a major discussion point in aviation, but making it happen will require "a fundamental change in the shape of the engine," said Mohamed Ali, GE Aerospace's chief technology and operations officer.

Turbofan jet engines work by taking in air. Some of this air enters the engine core where it is mixed with fuel and combusts to drive the turbines. The rest of the air is accelerated by the fan and bypasses the core.

Engines which have a higher proportion of bypassed air are more fuel efficient. However, this ratio is limited by the size of the intake duct.

"Here is the solution, and that's the beauty of physics. You can remove that duct and go to open fan," Ali said.

While today's engines have a bypass ratio of up to 12:1, Ali said current designs for an open-fan engine would improve that to 60:1.

Airbus and CFM — a joint venture between GE and Safran — plan to test open-fan engines on an Airbus A380 by the end of the decade.

They are also planning for the new engines to be able to operate entirely with sustainable aviation fuel. This can be produced from plants and cooking oil, but its takeup has so far been hindered by high costs and a lack of availability.

Folding wings

Airbus engineers are looking to longer wings to create more lift and reduce drag, which in turn means using less fuel. However, the size of a plane's wings is limited by the size of airport gates.

Yet if the wingtips can fold, planes can still have longer wings in flight and fit into airport gates on the ground.

If this sounds familiar, you might've seen something similar on the coming Boeing 777X, although Airbus is planning to first use it on narrow-body planes.

"If you think about the next generation of single-aisle aircraft, it will fly many times a day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week," said Sue Partridge, head of the Wing of Tomorrow program. "That folding wing system needs to work reliably."

New materials and some automation

Another step forward in fuel efficiency could be found in new composite materials.

The latest generation of airliners, like the Airbus A350 and Boeing 787, use carbon fiber-reinforced polymers in the wings and fuselage. These are stronger and lighter than aluminum, but more advances could be made.

"We are working on the next generation of composite materials, with our material suppliers working as partners with us," Partridge told the summit.

Just before the summit began, Reuters reported that both planemakers are looking at thermoplastics for future aircraft.

Single-aisle planes are more popular than widebodies, with Airbus eyeing a target of producing 75 a month.

"We need to be able to make our aircraft and our wings at high rate and at a cost that's actually sustainable for our business," Partridge said.

She added that the Wing of Tomorrow program was looking at robotic and automation technologies to see how they could speed up manufacturing.

Automation won't just take place in the factories, however.

At the summit, BI rode in a self-driving van testing Airbus' new autonomous technology, Optimate.

It's been testing cameras, radar, and lidar to help follow airport lines for autonomous taxiing and to avoid potential collisions. Near misses have been growing more common in recent years, and Airbus also predicts there will be twice the number of aircraft in 20 years.

AI could also be used to predict traffic and help pilots reroute around turbulence or bad weather.

There are still more than 10 years before Airbus sees its next generation of planes taking to the skies.

Faury, the CEO, compared the process to "a caterpillar in a cocoon becoming a butterfly."

"In this transition, there's a bit of paralysis," he said. "There's a lot of forces at stake, it's painful, and then the butterfly takes off. We don't know what it looks like until we're there."

"We remain committed to our purpose, which is to pioneer sustainable aerospace for a safe and united world," he added. "We think it's a beautiful purpose, but it's not an easy one."

The midtown Manhattan building where Jackie Kennedy, Elizabeth Taylor, and Truman Capote once dined, then the legendary French restaurant La Grenouille, is now a nondescript renovation site with wood, metal, and industrial-size garbage bins strewn about. The 60-year home of La Grenouille will soon be turned into the new American home of Quanjude, the most famous Peking duck restaurant brand in China. Quanjude, a publicly listed company controlled by a state-owned entity, bought the 6,800-square-foot building on 52nd Street for $14.3 million in October in an attempt to bring Chinese fine dining to America.

The 161-year-old brand's first branch in the US is going all out. The wallpaper will replicate a 12th-century Chinese handscroll painting. The private dining room will be decorated with traditional fans and chopsticks. But it is the quality of the food that Yan Zhang, the head of Quanjude America, wants diners to obsess about. "Chinese cuisine is exquisite and profound. But in this part of the world, people think it's just spring rolls and chow mein," Zhang said. "We want to revamp their cognition."

Quanjude is one of at least 10 major Chinese food and beverage brands planning to hit US shores this year. Driven by an oversaturated market, a troubled economy back home, and the potential to be listed on the US stock market, companies serving everything from high-end dinners to dumplings and milk tea — several of them with thousands of locations in China — are now poised to break into the US food market. And dozens more are planning to study the landscape to possibly jump in themselves.

But with the relationship between the US and China at one of its rockiest points since the two countries resumed their diplomatic relationship in 1979, the Chinese newcomers' path to success is extremely precarious. Sure, they aren't working on critical technology or launching major social media platforms, but Chinese restaurants have still faced backlash in the past few years, with some Americans blaming the country for the COVID pandemic or because of a general antipathy toward the Chinese Communist Party. Is America really ready for what some local Chinese restaurant insiders are calling a Chinese food "tsunami"?

Since the first Chinese restaurant in the US opened in 1849 in San Francisco during the gold rush, generations of blue-collar immigrants have taken advantage of the relatively low-cost entry point in the restaurant industry to make ends meet. They created dishes that are nonexistent in China, such as chop suey or General Tso's chicken, to cater to Western palettes, forming an expectation among Americans that Chinese cuisine is convenient and cheap. Chinese immigrants, meanwhile, have had to watch their cuisine sink to the bottom of their adopted country's food chain.

When Zhang started traveling around North America for his import and export business 18 years ago, he couldn't bear the Chinese food he came across. "Nothing is authentic other than the beef noodle," he said. A foodie himself, Zhang vowed to make a difference. In 2017, he reached out to Quanjude, proposing to bring the iconic restaurant to North America. He opened the first branch in Vancouver, Canada, in early 2020, right before the pandemic ravaged indoor dining. In 2022, it won a Michelin star, which it has held onto since — and Zhang expects the New York branch to get even greater plaudits.

"Chinese immigrants are better educated and wealthier now. We crave for a better presentation of our own culture," said Zhang. "It is the best time for food brands in China to expand overseas."

While there are some Chinese fine-dining restaurants in the US run by Chinese Americans, the new wave brings some of the best-known restaurant brands in China.

The timing is made more urgent by China's recent economic troubles. The Chinese government says the revenue of the food and beverage industry in the country increased just 5.3% in 2024, a nosedive from the 20.4% increase in 2023, and the smallest growth in a decade excluding the pandemic years. An industry report on 22 publicly listed Chinese food and beverage companies found that 68% saw their profits decline in the first half of last year. Close to 3 million restaurants and cafés in China shut down for good last year.

Chinese food brands' moves to open overseas — which had been increasing modestly since the 1980s — have rapidly accelerated. Hongcan Industry Research Institute, a Chinese group that studies the restaurant industry, released a report in September that found more than 100 Chinese food and beverage brands have moved into more than 180 countries, now running 700,000 locations outside China — a 200,000 increase since 2016. The Chinese government has spurred on the expansion, issuing two directives last year for Chinese food and beverage brands to "go overseas" to help "improve the international influence of Chinese cuisine culture."

"Almost all the major food and beverage brands you see in China are considering coming to the US," said Beichen Hu, a restaurant investor and the director of the North America Asian Food Industry Association. "A popular catchphrase circulating broadly in the food industry in China is 'to go overseas or to die.'"

The US market certainly looks appealing. The food service industry reached over $1 trillion in sales last year, with $1.5 trillion projected in 2025. A survey by the National Restaurant Association found that 80% of restaurant operators in the US expect their sales this year to be the same or higher than last year's. An analysis by IBISWorld predicted a promising market for Chinese restaurants in the US through 2030 as the demand for Chinese food among households with annual income above $100,000 is expected to increase.

For as much of a setback as it was, the pandemic also offered a rare opportunity. "Many prime locations in coveted places like Manhattan are vacant after the pandemic, and that opens the market for brands from China," said Tom Chen, the founder of Kepler Mission Design Group, a design and branding company that's helped food and beverage chains from China open in the US. Leading Chinese brands have snatched up space in competitive areas like Fifth Avenue and Times Square in New York and Beverly Hills in Los Angeles.

"These brands don't want to be just another Chinese restaurant in the US; they want the esteem," said Chao Wang, the owner of the rice-noodle shop Hunan Slurp in New York's East Village. He's helping restaurants from Hunan province, where he's from, to open in the US. "To have a store in Manhattan is like erecting a flag on the moon. It's worth it even if you don't make money."

Still, the cuisine push from China may seem counterintuitive. The tension between the US and China, especially Washington's restrictions on Chinese tech companies in recent years, has created a palpable chilling effect. Figures on foreign investment from China vary significantly, but they all show a steep drop in Chinese investment into the US in the last several years. The most recent annual survey by the China General Chamber of Commerce — USA found that in 2023, more than 60% of Chinese companies in the US complained about the deteriorating business environment and 22% had reduced investment here.

But geopolitical risks are not top of mind for most eateries. "The US is still a pro-business country. And we sell consumer products, not computer chips," said Amanda Wang, the owner of Ningji, the leading Chinese chain of lemon-based teas, with more than 3,000 stores in China. Its first overseas outlet is opening in mid-April in Los Angeles with a product line customized for American consumers called bobobaba. And the company is already looking for more locations.

Wang said the biggest cultural shock for her is the time it takes to open a store in the US. Ningji decided to take over the fully functioning venue of a shuttered beverage store in the Los Angeles suburb of Glendale last November, but as of early February, Wang was still waiting for the license to be approved to start the renovation. "I am speechless," said Wang. "We open a new store on average in 20 days in China."

Wang was also confused by a recent street encounter. Two days before the new year, on her way to the supermarket, a stranger yelled at her to "go back to China," and blamed her for stealing jobs in the US. "I don't understand why he thought I stole his job," said Wang. "We are here to create jobs."

This kind of hostility isn't exactly rare. A Pew Research Center survey from May found that eight in 10 Americans have negative views about China, and a study by researchers from Boston College, the University of Michigan, and Microsoft found that Asian restaurants in the US lost $7.4 billion in revenue in 2020 because of anti-Chinese sentiment, which President Donald Trump helped stoke by calling COVID-19 the "China virus."

"Trump likes to stir racial antagonism," Chao Wang of Hunan Slurp said. The window of a noodle shop Wang owned in Long Island City, New York, was smashed during the pandemic, and he attributed it to anti-Asian hate.

Yong Zhao, the cofounder and chief executive of the American food chains Junzi Kitchen and Nice Day, had a disturbing moment a few months ago with a customer at his store in Long Island. "I told him we are going to bring organic mushrooms from a local farm into our recipes, and he said, 'Oh, is the farm owned by the CCP?'" said Zhao. The customer was referring to the rising concern that the Chinese Communist Party is spying on the US from farmlands purchased by Chinese entities. "If I were white, I don't think he'd have asked."

Before the pandemic, Zhao, a Yale-educated environmental scientist turned restaurateur, had formed a network of young Chinese restaurant operators in the US with a mission to "tell the stories of Chinese cuisine." But he said since the trade war began in 2018, American media has much less coverage of Chinese culture and lifestyle, and Americans seem less interested in Chinese culture. "Say, you want to highlight the history of a traditional dish from Chengdu, but many people here don't know where Chengdu is," said Zhao, referring to the southwestern Chinese city that is known for mapo tofu and kung pao chicken.

To some industry people I spoke with, Chinese food companies are less likely to be caught up in geopolitical wrangling than, say, the tech industry, but their biggest risk factor may be their own growth. "This is an industry that is safe until Chinese companies start to win, and then they're not safe," said Chris Pereira, the founder and CEO of iMpact, a New York-based consulting firm that has helped hundreds of Chinese enterprises enter the US.

Before he founded iMpact in 2020, Pereira worked as an executive at Huawei, the Chinese tech conglomerate that was driven out of the US market over national security concerns. Having watched that play out, Pereira suggests big Chinese food chains find ways to share profits with American partners as a form of self-protection. For instance, he said, if Luckin Coffee, the Chinese coffeehouse behemoth with more than 22,000 locations in China that plans to come to the US this year, starts to steal market share from Starbucks, "you can bet the US government will find a way to talk about national security for coffee."

In a crowded back office at Quanjude's Manhattan site, Zhang has a more urgent challenge. The visa applications for the five chefs he plans to bring in from China are still pending. Since US-China relations started deteriorating, it's been harder to obtain visas for Chinese nationals, but Zhang says the Chinese-trained chefs are essential for the restaurant. "We won't allow the quality of the food to suffer under untrained hands," he said. If nothing else works out, he plans to bring Quanjude chefs from Canada.

Zhang thinks his ducks could serve an important mission. "I believe food is the best bridge for divisions and it may help pull the US and China closer again," he said.

After a pause, he continued. "Except if there is a hot war," he said, "everything Chinese in the US would be doomed."

Rong Xiaoqing is a New York-based award-winning journalist who has been writing about the Chinese community in the US since 2002.

• New employment data shows what US hiring looks like across industries.
• Employment is thriving in different healthcare fields.
• Couriers and messengers have also added jobs.

If you're looking for work, you could consider applying for a healthcare or transportation job right now. But if you're considering applying to white-collar fields, it may be tougher to land a role.

New Bureau of Labor Statistics data published Friday showed that more people entered the labor force in March, contributing to a small uptick in unemployment. While newly unemployed Americans may be hopeful to land a job quickly, some people on the job market have struggled to find work. The number of people unemployed long term rose by 40,000 in March.

"If you've never had a problem getting a job before and suddenly you do, you can't look at it and think, 'I'm the problem,'" recruiter Kathleen Nolan recently told Business Insider. "You've got to look at what's going on around you."

The newly released data reveals where people have been getting hired so far this year.

Here are the industries that have been hiring

Cory Stahle, an economist at the Indeed Hiring Lab, said the March jobs report showed strength in service and in-person work and less so in white-collar jobs or work that may be more likely to be done remotely.

Healthcare, which typically has in-person roles, has been a constant strength in the labor market, with consistently stronger gains over the past few years. There's an ongoing need for healthcare workers.

There is strength elsewhere in the US economy. Employment in the transportation and warehousing sector rose mainly due to gigs in couriers and messengers, which saw cooler job growth last year. Meanwhile, employment fell in warehousing and storage.

Dean Baker, senior economist for the Center for Economic and Policy Research, said the recent increase in couriers and messengers, which includes people delivering packages, "could reflect increased demand for items in advance of tariffs." President Donald Trump unveiled his latest tariff plan on April 2, which will impose a 10% tariff on countries and then a higher tariff on Japan, the European Union, and many other trade partners.

Stahle said construction's gain of 13,000 in March was "notable because when interest rates started to increase a couple of years ago, that was kind of the industry that everybody thought was going to break first, and yet we see that construction has continued to hold solid."

Employment increased by 24,000 in this sector from December to March. Associated Builders and Contractors said in a January press release that over 400,000 new construction workers are needed this year to meet demand.

Retail work saw employment rise over the month in March, but the BLS report on Friday said that an end of a strike contributed to that gain. The three-month employment increase showed general merchandise retailers saw the highest growth among the detailed types of retail work.

The three-month employment growth in healthcare was widespread across the sector. It increased by thousands in ambulatory healthcare services, which include doctors' offices and medical labs, while also increasing by thousands in hospitals.

While the federal government is making cuts, the numbers haven't largely been reflected in the BLS jobs report because of the timing of the surveys and people on paid leave, such as probationary workers who have been reinstated after a court order pausing their terminations, being counted as employed. For people still interested in working for the government, local government could be an area to look at, based on its most recent three-month job gain.

Amusement, gambling, and recreation industries were one group within the leisure and hospitality that saw recent strength. Michael Feroli, JPMorgan's chief US economist, said that similar to the construction sector, "leisure and hospitality may have benefited from better seasonally adjusted weather conditions."

Do you have a story to share about job searching? Reach out to this reporter at [email protected].

• Americans are flooding Social Security offices and phones over benefit concerns and identity measures.
• New identity verification rules and staff cuts fueled fears of benefit disruptions.
• Advocates warn of a feedback loop worsening call volumes and public anxiety.

Seniors are calling Social Security in spades and showing up en masse to field offices, as many fret about the future of their benefits.

Some are concerned about new identity measures, and others fear that their benefits could be affected. Taken together, this is creating a new problem: People who are worried about delays are straining the Social Security Administration's customer support systems with an influx in calls and appearances at field offices. That all comes as the agency has said it wants to reduce staff by 7,000 of its 57,000 workers.

In February, Social Security's 800 number received around 8.6 million calls; by March, it had received nearly 10.5 million calls. All told, the average number of daily calls per month rose by about 50,000 from February to March. March's average was 483,549, up from 312,533 a year before.

A Social Security operations worker said in a March 28th agency meeting that 665,000 people visited field offices in the week prior, which was "significant."

"Why are they coming? They're nervous," the worker said, who was identified as Ian, said. He said that visitors are coming in and requesting certified copies of their documents, which cost $100, and can usually be accessed online. He said that mySSA, the online portal, used to see around 2,500 users a week; now, that's up to 5,500.

"They're afraid of our systems going down. That's what they're telling us," he added.

When Business Insider's Allie Kelly tried to contact Social Security's 1-800 number last week, she was greeted with a voice message telling her that wait times were over 120 minutes — and then she got hung up on. Under 40% of callers reached a representative in March, according to SSA data, down from around 59% a year prior.

Social Security did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.

"With a resounding mandate from the American people, President Trump is moving quickly to fulfill his promise of making the federal government more efficient," White House spokesperson Liz Huston said in a statement. "He has promised to protect Social Security, and every recipient will continue to receive their benefits."

The influx of calls and visitors comes after public uncertainty around the program. Social Security is still providing benefits , but some advocates and beneficiaries have raised concerns over new guidelines for identity verification.

Under that guidance, new beneficiaries would have to verify their identities either online or in-person. Advocates sounded alarms that the new process could leave behind seniors without access to the internet or the ability to come in person. The new guidelines were ultimately tweaked, with the identity proofing now set to start April 14 and applicants for Medicare, disability, and SSI exempted from the in-person requirement.

"The Trump Administration's rash statements and actions on Social Security are triggering widespread worry and stress, particularly among older and disabled people," Kathleen Romig, the director of Social Security and disability policy at the left-leaning think tank Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, said.

That cascade of worry is being felt beyond phone lines and field offices: At the end of March, the AARP told BI that the nonprofit has been receiving around 2,000 calls a week about Social Security benefits, with potential disruptions to checks coming in as "by far the number one" issue.

Tracey Gonniger, the managing director of economic security and housing at the advocacy group Justice in Aging, said she thinks that the agency could face a worsening feedback loop.

"You have higher call volume because you created higher call volume, and then you cut back on staff and then created more caller volume. They just keep on making the situation worse, and then people are panicking and probably then calling more because they're like, what's going on?" Gonniger said. "It's this weird effect of making it worse, and then cutting back and then making it worse, and then cutting back on services and making people lose faith in the system; it's really bad."

Workers on the ground are feeling that firsthand. One Social Security employee told BI that they had to talk down someone on the phone who was fearful that Elon Musk would take their checks; they ended up having to assure them and send them documentation they were due benefits.

The recipient was "clearly having an episode," the worker said. "Very sweet, very scared."

Have a tip? Contact this reporter via Signal at julianakaplan.33 or email at [email protected]. Use a personal email address and a nonwork device; here's our guide to sharing information securely.

• Trump increased tariffs on US imports to the highest levels in nearly a century.
• The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 raised tariffs and worsened the Great Depression.
• Prior to the Great Depression, Republicans were the pro-tariff party.

Tariffs haven't been raised this dramatically in a long time, perhaps because the last time they were, it made the Great Depression much worse.

President Donald Trump on Wednesday announced substantial tariffs on products imported to the US, including a baseline 10% on all countries, with higher tariffs on countries the White House considers "the worst offenders" against US trade relations. That includes a 49% tariff for Cambodia, 46% for Vietnam, 20% for the European Union, and a total effective tariff of 54% for China.

Trump's tariffs "represent a complete reversal of how the United States has dealt with the question of global trade for the better nine tenths of a century," Eric Rauchway, a historian and distinguished professor at the University of California Davis, told Business Insider.

"By 1948, it become consensus belief across US political parties, and indeed throughout the world, that tariffs had helped cause the Great Depression and the Second World War," Rauchway said. "The policies we've had since then have been intended to avoid a repeat of those things."

Before the general consensus around free trade became the norm, the US had a long history of tariffs. An early action of the first US Congress was the Tariff Act of 1789, which introduced tariffs to pay government wages and fund the national debt. Until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913, which set up the modern system of federal income taxes, tariffs were the federal government's primary source of revenue.

The last time tariffs were this high followed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930.

Following the stock market crash in 1929, President Herbert Hoover signed the act into law in an effort to protect American farmers and manufacturers against imports from Europe, where overproduction after World War I was increasing competition and lowering prices. The act raised already-high import duties on foreign agricultural products and manufactured goods — the Fordney-McCumber Act of 1922 had already raised the average import tax to around 40% — by an additional 20% on average.

Smoot-Hawley accelerated a cycle of retaliation that had begun in the 1920s, as other countries raised their tariffs right back at the US, Rauchway said.

"By the end of the thirties, you have lots and lots of high tariff laws," Rauchway said. "So that just reduces the volume of world trade. And that's bad because the Depression was a global phenomenon and a lot of people needed to sell into other markets for their economies to recover."

As a result, trade between the US and Europe declined by two-thirds, and European banks began to fail. And with a weakened world economy, extremist ideologies flourished in Europe and World War II began.

A reduction of tariff rates began under the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration in 1934, but really accelerated after World War II with the 1948 establishment of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), which later became the World Trade Organization, Rauchway said.

"After WWII, the United States did not want to repeat the mistakes of isolationism which had guided the response to the end of WWI, such as not joining the League of Nations," Felix Stossmeister, an expert on trade policy and Ph.D. student at Ohio University, told Business Insider. Because the British Empire was too weakened by the war to "play its old role as guarantor of an international trading order," Stossmeister said, "the United States felt that it had to step up."

To promote international trade and stable exchange rates, the US "played a crucial role" in setting up several major economic development institutions, Stossmeister said.

By the Cold War, "free trade often meant access to American markets for (potential) allies, lest they possibly fall to the Communist side or at least develop sympathies," Stossmeister said. But, he added, using "anti-Communism as a rationale for freer trade faded along with the Soviet Union."

While Trump's latest tariff policy reverses the bipartisan consensus around free trade that has marked much of the last century, it does bring the Republican party back to its roots as the pro-tariff party prior to the Great Depression, Rauchway said.

Since Trump's tariff announcement, US stocks have been plummeting, suffering their worst single-day loss in five years on Thursday. Economy and markets experts are warning the tariffs will increase inflation and raise the overall price of goods in the US.

Amelia Dimoldenberg had been on more than 80 first dates before she finally met her match in a North London chicken shop in November 2023.

The British comedian and internet personality, who made a name for herself by flirting through her interviews with celebrities on her popular YouTube series "Chicken Shop Date," was finally sitting across from someone who could understand what it's like to have chicken be an integral part of one's career.

"This may be the greatest crossover of all time," Dimoldenberg proclaimed to Sean Evans, the host of First We Feast's YouTube talk show series "Hot Ones," which bills itself as "the show with hot questions and even hotter wings."

"Marvel, I don't think, has anything on us," she deadpanned.

In the world of upstart talk shows, the match-up of Dimoldenberg, 31, and Evans, 38, could indeed be likened to "The Avengers." The pair are the epicenter of a new kind of celebrity interview show, one that doesn't air on linear TV and frequently goes viral.

Though both share a poultry-based gimmick, what really unites "Chicken Shop Date" and "Hot Ones" is their thoughtful execution of consistently revealing and meme-able interviews. Whether Dimoldenberg is disarming celebrities with awkward flirting or Evans is asking them probing questions amid the increasingly physical demands of the Scoville scale, the chicken shows have each perfected their own unique recipe for entertainment that viewers want to see — and celebrities want to participate in.

Over the last decade, both shows have worked to prove they're not just a flash in the pan, amassing hundreds of millions (or, in the case of "Hot Ones," billions) of views, millions of subscribers, and producing over 100 episodes each. The fan fervor for both series has reached high enough levels that "Hot Ones" now sells its own hot sauces. Meanwhile, Dimoldenberg's mega-viral "Chicken Shop Date" episode with Andrew Garfield inspired such enthusiasm that fans dressed up as the pair for Halloween.

Both shows also benefit from being independent: BuzzFeed sold First We Feast, the studio behind "Hot Ones," to a group of investors in 2024 for $82.5 million, while Dimoldenberg has called her decision to keep ownership of "Chicken Shop Date" under her production banner, Dimz Inc., "the best thing I've ever done."

Eschewing a corporate overlord hasn't kneecapped either show's opportunities for industry acclaim, either. "Hot Ones" and "Chicken Shop Date" are both now Emmy eligible; "Chicken Shop Date" entered the 2024 race in the outstanding short form comedy, drama or variety series category, while "Hot Ones," which has previously been nominated for Daytime Emmys, successfully petitioned to be considered in the outstanding talk series category at the Primetime Emmys alongside late-night heavyweights.

As ratings for traditional late-night talk shows continue to decline, shows like "Hot Ones" and "Chicken Shop Date" are gobbling up space in pop culture consciousness as a more appetizing alternative.

"These new shows are not a trend," Liza Anderson, the founder and president of Anderson Group Public Relations, told Business Insider. "I really feel like they're the way for the future."

'Hot Ones' and 'Chicken Shop Date' transcend their gimmicks to showcase an unfiltered side of celebrities

In the era before the internet, TV appearances were an essential part of a traditional celebrity press tour. In a 5- to 10-minute slot on national TV, stars could simply promote their show or film by answering a host's canned questions, reaching a large audience of people tuning in live.

"Everything that we used to do 10 years ago was scripted," Anderson told BI. "Any time I put somebody on a major talk show, we had the questions ahead of time. We rehearsed the answers. We knew what was coming."

The rise of social media and streaming has dramatically changed viewers' appetites. Though morning talk shows and late-night interview shows soldier on, large swaths of younger audiences have moved to the internet, where they can watch shorter, more offbeat clips of their favorite stars on digital series and interact directly with them via social media.

"There was a time when you had a TV or movie star, and you didn't want to pierce the veil and get to know the actual actor. The psychology was that it took away from the character," Anderson said. "Now, the opposite is true. The philosophy and psychology behind it is that you want to watch actors that you feel a connection with personally, not just professionally."

Nowhere was that craving for a parasocial connection more apparent than in the aforementioned and now-legendary 2024 episode of "Chicken Shop Date" with guest Andrew Garfield. After two years of flirtatious interactions on red carpets, Dimoldenberg and Garfield finally sat down for a "date" — one that repeatedly broke the fourth wall so convincingly that fans were adamant the pair should date in real life.

"i can't believe the best rom com of 2024 is an 11 minute promo interview between amelia dimoldenberg and andrew garfield," one fan wrote on X.

Flirting with Dimoldenberg was far from the only thing Garfield did to promote his A24 romantic dramedy "We Live in Time." But amid sitting for a slew of press junkets, posing for magazine covers, and dragging a cardboard cutout of his costar Florence Pugh down the red carpet (yes, really), Garfield's viral moment on "Chicken Shop Date" was arguably his most impactful appearance. It was watched 11 million times.

Even bona fide A-listers of older generations are becoming keenly aware that chicken — or, at least, digital interview series — is the key to staying relevant to a generation that lives on the internet.

"The other night, I was interviewed by Amelia, the chicken nuggets," Nicole Kidman told the Guardian of Dimoldenberg. "That's all my daughter cared about, and I loved that." So Kidman looked up Dimoldenberg's show and was charmed by her work. "I loved her with Billie Eilish, and Andrew Garfield and her was so funny. And now I have to go for a date with her. I'm asking for the date."

Celebrity publicists, too, are grateful for these unique concepts, which help portray their clients as multidimensional. "It's a good shift from a strategy perspective because it's something fresh and different," said Beth Booker, founder and CEO of Gracie PR.

"Traditional PR practices are still definitely at play, but we have to have those digital components to make our campaigns really effective because a press release and a radio tour just aren't going to cut it anymore," she added. "You have to find a way to cut through the noise, and those shows give you a really good opportunity to do that."

As late-night ratings plummet, talk shows are relying on social media-friendly digital segments to keep up

In their heyday of internet popularity, late-night talk shows broke the mold with gimmick-based celebrity interview segments like "Day Drinking" with Seth Meyers, "Carpool Karaoke" with James Corden, and "Wheel of Musical Impressions" with Jimmy Fallon.

Media outlets like Vogue, BuzzFeed, and Elle also emerged with their own specialty celebrity interview series, and some newer daytime talk shows have gotten in on the action, too: "The Jennifer Hudson Show" crew's backstage hype-up chants for guests, dubbed the "spirit tunnel," continue to go viral.

Still, it's no secret that traditional late-night is in its downsizing era. In 2024, "The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon" was cut down to four days a week, and "Late Night With Seth Meyers" dropped its live house band, 8G, reportedly due to budget cuts.

And while late-night shows continue to do games and other segments with stars, there's now more competition and diminishing returns. The most-watched video on the YouTube channel for "Late Night With Seth Meyers" is his day-drinking episode with Rihanna, which was released five years ago. The most popular video on the "Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon" channel is an a capella segment with the cast of "Star Wars: The Force Awakens," posted eight years ago.

"I don't know if there will be any late-night television shows on network TV in 10 years," Jimmy Kimmel said in August 2024 on the "Politickin'" podcast. "There's a lot to watch and now people can watch anything at any time; they've got all these streaming services."

Booker, however, is optimistic that late night isn't dead yet — though it is going through a transition period.

"I think the late-night shows are still going to survive, honestly, because a lot of them are bridging that gap to add in more of those viral-friendly segments," she said.

Anderson said that for now, there's still room for conventional talk shows in a press tour. However, most people are probably catching up on the latest celebrity news and talk show highlights while scrolling on TikTok, Instagram, and X rather than tuning in live.

"If you get a viral moment on ["The Drew Barrymore Show"], it can make or break somebody's career," Anderson said. "But nobody's sitting at home watching Drew."

What makes something go viral, though, has changed. Gone are the days when an ultra-gimmicky setup (think: James Corden's "Spill Your Guts or Fill Your Guts" or Jimmy Fallon's "Egg Roulette") could guarantee clicks on its own. When it comes down to it, the moments that audiences latch onto are the ones that use a contrived setting to pull a genuine emotion out of their guest.

When late-night legend Conan O'Brien ate his way through Evans' challenge in what's widely considered to be one of the best "Hot Ones" episodes ever, he paused his stream of frenetic anecdotes for a brief moment of sincerity.

"I've watched your show. You're a very good interviewer," O'Brien said, addressing Evans.

"I mean, this is fun, I like this, I get why you guys do it, and it's really fun, and it's compelling," he said, motioning to the hot sauces, the wings, and the camera, "but you are a very serious interviewer. You take it seriously, and you ask really good questions."

Evans laughed and thanked him, a little bit in shock.

"You'll cut that out. That won't make it in. No laughs there," O'Brien said.

It stayed in the final cut.

• A longevity scientist who claims he reversed his age by 15 years believes exercise had the most impact.
• A combination of strength training and aerobic exercise is linked to a longer life.
• Verdin does hot pilates four to five times a week.

A longevity scientist who claims to have reversed his biological age by around 15 years shared his weekly workout routine with Business Insider.

Dr. Eric Verdin, the CEO and president of the Buck Institute for Research on Aging, has been using medical tests and wearable devices like smartwatches to monitor his health for the past decade, and tweaking his lifestyle accordingly.

Tests that measure biomarkers such as inflammation, blood pressure, and cholesterol indicate that while Verdin's chronological age is 68, his biological age is between 48 and 53. There's no consensus on the definition of biological age or how to measure it, so it differs according to the test he refers to.

Verdin said he believes exercising for an hour each day has made the biggest difference to his health.

"I rarely take a day off. On that day off, I just miss it because I realize it optimizes everything else," he said. "If you're looking for an anti-aging drug that the Buck Institute is going to come up with in the next few years, it is probably going to be 10 years before we have anything that comes remotely close to exercise and physical activity," Verdin said.

He works out every day, doing a mixture of cardio, strength training, and mobility exercises.

Hot pilates four to five times a week

"It hits all the notes that I need to hit," Verdin said.

It involves doing strength training exercises such as squats and pushups with small weights in the heat, which both challenge the muscles and make the heart and lungs work, he said.

Research suggests that doing a combination of weight lighting and cardio is best for longevity.

In a large 2022 study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, researchers from the National Cancer Institute examined data from nearly 100,000 older US adults. They found that participants who did resistance training once or twice a week as well as cardio, had a 41% lower risk of dying from chronic diseases such as cancer and heart disease when compared to sedentary participants.

Those who did 150 to 300 minutes a week of aerobic exercise were, on average, 32% less likely to die from any cause during the course of the study. And resistance training was linked to 9% lower mortality rates.

Lifting heavy weights at home

Once a week, Verdin lifts heavy weights at home, which helps him build muscle.

Dr. Vonda Wright, an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in healthy aging, previously told BI that maintaining muscle mass and bone density as we age is essential for staying strong and mobile.

Muscles help us perform everyday movements, such as reaching for a book off a high shelf or standing up from a chair, but they naturally start to shrink around the age of 30.

Long bike rides in nature

The Buck Institute is in Novato, just north of San Francisco. Verdin takes advantage of the beautiful surroundings by going on a two to three-hour bike ride in the mountains every week.

Cycling is a form of cardio that has been linked to multiple health benefits, including lower blood pressure and cholesterol, better mood, and a lower risk of chronic disease.

Exercising in nature has also been found to have extra benefits for the brain, such as improved focus.

• With tariffs, federal budget cuts, and student loan limbo, Americans are delaying financial decisions.
• 6 Americans told BI how economic uncertainty is shaping their family, jobs, budgets, and retirement.
• While the US is not in a recession, indicators are showing some signs of weakness.

Babies, homes, retirement, and business ventures — all major moves Americans have told BI they're putting on hold as the US reels from economic uncertainty.

Tariffs are set to raise prices on everything from groceries to cars, and sweeping cuts to federal spending have many concerned about their livelihoods. Federal student loan limbo is also leaving millions wondering how they will pay off their debt.

"I feel like I just got done building a life out here," said a Washington DC 28-year-old who resigned from her government job and may have to move due to finances. "I was actually trying to own a home."

Some are even worried about a recession. While the US isn't in one yet, a major indicator of consumer sentiment hit a three-year low in March, and consumer spending was weaker than expected last month. Meanwhile, a closely watched inflation metric has seen its highest jump in a year. Economists have said these conditions are making people less likely to make major purchases and take financial risks.

While some Americans also told BI they support Trump's recent cost-cutting measures and don't plan to make any adjustments to their jobs or savings, six shared stories about holding off on major milestones.

A millennial is weighing starting a family amid student loan uncertainty

Florence Thompson feels stuck. The 39-year-old wants to buy a home and have a baby, but she's not sure what her future monthly student-loan payments will look like. She said she hopes they'll stay in the low hundreds.

Thompson is enrolled in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, which forgives student debt for government and nonprofit workers after 10 years of qualifying payments. Trump is taking steps to limit eligibility for the program, which could bar some borrowers from future relief.

Thompson is also on the SAVE plan, created by President Joe Biden to give borrowers more affordable monthly payments. Since July, she and 8 million enrolled borrowers have been stuck in forbearance after SAVE was blocked in court. Thompson has not been able to make payments or earn PSLF credit while the lawsuit plays out. Now, Thompson isn't sure when she will have to add loan payments back into her budget — and how much those payments will be. The Trump administration's recent decision to dismantle the Department of Education has heightened this uncertainty, she said. It's complicating her plans to buy a home and start a family.

"I have the money to pursue IVF, I have the money to buy a home," Thompson said. "But it's like the sword hanging above your head where you don't know when your monthly costs are going to increase and by how much. It's just a real uncertainty, and I know people are in much more difficult positions than myself. It's just not fair, not right."

Until she knows what will happen with her student debt, Thompson is conflicted. "It's really causing me to have to save money rather than spend it on the things that I'd like to spend it on," she said.

A federal employee left a $100,000 salary on the table and is worried about the future of her career

Ashley Shannon submitted her resignation letter last month. The 28-year-old was an attorney in her second year at the Department of Justice's Federal Bureau of Prisons. She said her job felt meaningful — her work helped combat mass incarceration disproportionately impacting Black and brown people.

But, as news flooded in about the firings of federal probationary workers, Shannon made the tough decision to leave her role.

"Higher up in the agency, they pretty much told us it's either you leave or you're going to likely get fired and pushed out," she said.

The career paths for Black women in private-sector law are more limited than in the federal workforce, and Shannon had been excited to build a career in the public interest. She had been making $100,000 a year and was building her life in Washington DC — hoping to buy her first home soon. Now, Shannon has been unemployed since March 5. If she can't find a job by the end of April, she will have to move back to Chicago to live with her parents.

"That is a very defeating feeling as a very new attorney," she said. "I would have to move back in with my family, find another job, and pretty much restart my entire life."

A Gen Zer moved back in with her parents to save up for an international move

Last fall, Bri O. moved back in with her parents. The 23-year-old works a finance job in Charlotte, North Carolina. She didn't picture spending her young adult years in her childhood home, but said it's her best option to save money.

Bri knew she wanted to live abroad at some point in her life — it's an opportunity to experience new cultures and she has her eyes set on Spain. However, she said Trump's return to the Oval Office has accelerated her timeline: She's now trying to save $50,000 by 2026 so that she can move out of the US, maybe permanently.

As a young, queer woman, Bri said she doesn't feel safe living under the Trump administration, especially if she someday chooses to get married or start a family. The government "enacting policies against us in the queer community is having an effect on our lives," she said.

She said she's sacrificing some of her independence by living with family right now, but it's worth it for her finances. Being at home is allowing her to put the money she would be spending on rent and other expenses into savings for her eventual move.

"I'd love to stay in the country where all my friends and my family are," she said, adding, "It's disheartening that I'm leaving because of fear."

A Gen Xer isn't sure she can retire early anymore

Margarita Sdoukos, 49, thought she was going to retire early. She was confident that she and her husband would have a strong enough nest egg to stop working in six years. Due to living below their means, savvy investments, and careful saving habits, the couple felt financially comfortable.

Now, Sdoukos isn't sure she will ever fully retire. The Illinois resident told BI that she and her husband have lost "tens of thousands" of dollars in the stock market since Trump took office in January, and they're shifting to safer investments for their 401(k), even if they are less lucrative. She cashed out her teacher's pension and placed it in an IRA due to "uncertainty in the government." She's concerned about potential changes to Social Security, and now expects to continue working for as long as possible.

"We don't even think about retirement right now," she said.

A business owner is anxious about her next step

Jessica Deseo, 40, has been in the design industry for nearly two decades. She's a California-based, first-generation immigrant and mother who is balancing her own LLC with her role as a 1099 employee for a fellow creative.

With economic policy changing quickly under Trump, Deseo is at a crossroads with her career: go solo with her business or balance her job and freelancing.

"I'm right in the middle of figuring that out, and it's really, really hard," she said.

Deseo said she wants to put energy and money into growing her own business, but it comes with sacrifices. She's worried that potential clients won't have the extra budget to hire her as a freelancer and said that going out completely on her own would be an even bigger financial risk. Right now, she's being cautious about spending and saving as much as she can.

"You see the economy around you and you're just like, 'Jesus, everyone is getting laid off,"' she said.

A baby boomer is putting off a move and saving some Social Security income

Kathy Heller, 67, hoped to move out of her studio apartment in Pennsylvania and buy a new house. However, due to recent changes in the stock market and her fears about the future of Social Security, she said that may no longer be possible.

"I've been wanting to move for the last couple of years, and I just can't now," Heller said. "Everything's changed."

Heller, who worked as a legal secretary, ate through some of her retirement savings while caring for her husband, who was ill for two decades. She works nearly full-time as a real estate agent to supplement her over $3,000 monthly Social Security survivor benefits. She said she's had to wait for four hours on the phone to contact a Social Security representative, and she said she's worried about what her finances may look like a few months from now, especially if Social Security is disrupted in any way.

"My plan is to save $1,000 a month out of my Social Security check, but I live alone," Heller said. "If you don't have savings or a monthly income, you're screwed now."

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